[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Deleted]

So... SoV got majorly buffed to make up for the DI nerf i guess.

Wowhead was reporting a buff to Execution sentence. God i hope it's still not worth using. Trash talent.

On the bright side, Divine hammer is dealing double the damage, so it may actually be viable again.

[Vuagnon]

So Chain of Thrayn off of DHT +2 as a a tank.
Feth me, right?

I got it from a random heroic and as previous notifier has stated, that thing will become very good for both prot and ret in the upcoming movie.

As for the second part of this statement, I remain unsure.

[cremor]

So now that Divine Hammers cooldown reduction was fixed some time ago, do you guys use it again in Mythic+?

[Tarkuslumina]

So now that Divine Hammers cooldown reduction was fixed some time ago, do you guys use it again in Mythic+?

No it's still worse than the other two choices on that tier.

[-Rufio-]

and divine hammer is bugged again and back to 10 sec after tuesdays patch.

it was fixed for awhile.

although i didnt try it so maybe its just the tooltip error. but the tooltip was fixed for a bit.


as for mythic+, what do you go with? zeal+BoW and just divine storm spam?

[Morally Grey Storm]

Tfoj +bow because low haste.
Currently at 18% after regemming and rechanting, feels somewhat better after sitting at 16% for a while.

- - - Updated - - -

Need a little bit of help here.
Just got CS critchance relic which adds +51 lvl.
I can use it to replace aw duration relic with +40 lvl bonus.
What should I do?
If it matters, other two relics I have are also AW duration ones. 35 seconds Wirth of Crusade are awesome.
Decisions, decisions...

[Snowfunk]

as for mythic+, what do you go with? zeal+BoW and just divine storm spam?

Tfoj +bow because low haste.

In my experience, regardless of haste, running anything else than Tfoj+BoW is crap & feels terrible.

[Deleted]

Tfoj +bow because low haste.
Currently at 18% after regemming and rechanting, feels somewhat better after sitting at 16% for a while.

- - - Updated - - -

Need a little bit of help here.
Just got CS critchance relic which adds +51 lvl.
I can use it to replace aw duration relic with +40 lvl bonus.
What should I do?
If it matters, other two relics I have are also AW duration ones. 35 seconds Wirth of Crusade are awesome.
Decisions, decisions...

according to discord:
https://goo.gl/J84ujG

51+8=59
40+24=64 -> keep the +40 relic

welcome to relic hell storm

[Vuagnon]

This is so stupid imo. If I replace my relic with another that is at least 20 ilvls higher, it should be an upgrade regardless of the secondary effects. They should increase the base weapon damage improvement per ilvl to solve this issue.

[Deleted]

according to discord:
https://goo.gl/J84ujG

51+8=59
40+24=64 -> keep the +40 relic

welcome to relic hell storm

I think that image is talking about relic ilvl and not about weapon ilvl. I'm guessing +40 weapon ilvl is 840 relic and a +51 weapon ilvl is a 875 relic.

875 - 840 = 35 ilvl difference. So, according to the image, is worth it.

If I'm wrong then sorry in advance :P

[Deleted]

7.1.5.23138 FV/ES tooltips:

FV: 242,969
ES: 533,219

ES now over double the strength of talented TV on PTR. I still don't know if it's good enough to make people want to play it... Needs a fundamental change or at least the healing utility back

Divine Hammer strength also doubled. Did a quick test for the duration of a single Crusade with two targets;

Sources
1) Divine Storm[FV] | 44 Hits | 31.4%, 7,773,201
2) Divine Hammer | 62 Hits | 24.7%, 6,101,235
3) Judgement | 10 Hits | 16.8%, 4,164,985
4) Crusader Strike[tFoJ] | 14 Hits | 11.0%, 2,713,798

Oh my, Consecration damage also more than doubled. Just did a quick test on the same two targets and it's pretty joocy. Nice to have a strong (and free) GCD filler for running slow talents like Zeal/DH. Feels good and produced much more overall damage during Crusade.

[Morally Grey Storm]

according to discord:
https://goo.gl/J84ujG

51+8=59
40+24=64 -> keep the +40 relic

welcome to relic hell storm

There's no place like home.

I think that image is talking about relic ilvl and not about weapon ilvl. I'm guessing +40 weapon ilvl is 840 relic and a +51 weapon ilvl is a 875 relic.

875 - 840 = 35 ilvl difference. So, according to the image, is worth it.

If I'm wrong then sorry in advance :P

tut-tut, AMR tells me it's a 4.5k dps upgrade over +40 lvl AW one.

How do I split hairs and scream internally

[Morally Grey Storm]

>AMR tells me
>AMR

ISHYGDDT

You got problem with AMR?

[Deleted]

You got problem with AMR?

To be honest I'm probably biased from old versions. Having a quick peep it looks to have come along a fair way .

[Morally Grey Storm]

To be honest I'm probably biased from old versions. Having a quick peep it looks to have come along a fair way .

it's decent, actually, and got a lot better from older days.
I like it for quick-scope checks and easy sims.
SimC takes too long to simulate and I'm apparently incredibly bad at using it.

[Inb4gkick]

SimC takes too long to simulate and I'm apparently incredibly bad at using it.

A lot of people are I guess. A guildy didn't even know you could compare 2 peoples casts on warcraft logs in the same window even though there's a giant "compare" button.

[Deleted]

according to discord:
https://goo.gl/J84ujG

51+8=59
40+24=64 -> keep the +40 relic

welcome to relic hell storm

I'd say you read the image wrong. the ilvl shown on the left is regarding the relic ilvl, not the ilvl increase on the weapon. Five ilvl of a relic increase the Ashbringer ilvl by ~1.5. If a Relic increases your damage by ~0.61% like the CS one, it's worth ~2.5 ilvl on ashbringer, aswell as roughly 8 ilvls on the relic itself.

E.g. in Storm's case:
840 Wota relic = 40*0.25 + 1.84 = 11.84
875? CS relic = 51*0.25 + 0.61 = 13.36

Other way to put show it with the chart:
840 WotA relic = 840 + 24 = 866
875? CS relic = 875 + 8 = 883

Conclusion: the CS relic should be better.

As rough reference value:
You need ~8ivl increase on Ashbringer to outperform a WotA relic with a FoL relic(8*0.25=2; 2>1.84).
5ilvl on Ashbringer with a Judge/CS/BoJ relic (5*0.25 + ~0.6+ = 1.85+)
4ilvl on Ashbringer with a TV relic (4*0.25 + 0.86 = 1.86)

[Morally Grey Storm]

I'd say you read the image wrong. the ilvl shown on the left is regarding the relic ilvl, not the ilvl increase on the weapon. Five ilvl of a relic increase the Ashbringer ilvl by ~1.5. If a Relic increases your damage by ~0.61% like the CS one, it's worth ~2.5 ilvl on ashbringer, aswell as roughly 8 ilvls on the relic itself.

E.g. in Storm's case:
840 Wota relic = 40*0.25 + 1.84 = 11.84
875? CS relic = 51*0.25 + 0.61 = 13.36

Other way to put show it with the chart:
840 WotA relic = 840 + 24 = 866
875? CS relic = 875 + 8 = 883

Conclusion: the CS relic should be better.

As rough reference value:
You need ~8ivl increase on Ashbringer to outperform a WotA relic with a FoL relic(8*0.25=2; 2>1.84).
5ilvl on Ashbringer with a Judge/CS/BoJ relic (5*0.25 + ~0.6+ = 1.85+)
4ilvl on Ashbringer with a TV relic (4*0.25 + 0.86 = 1.86)

wow, thanks a lot.
Now just got to decide if I go with it, or do I spend it on Prot/Holy, as it suits all 3 specs.

Btw, I think it should be worth considering regarding this current type of relic if you use Zeal or not, as it hits a lot harder than CS and cleaves, netting even bigger potential gain.

[Zoopercat]

To be honest I'm probably biased from old versions. Having a quick peep it looks to have come along a fair way .

Hellooooo Just wanted to drop in and let you know, if you're comparing to our older versions... there are 2 huge things you'll notice now:

1. We built a simulator with all of the spells on the wiki (so you can easily verify them, or even edit them).
2. The big thing is trinkets (and all items with procs). Despite our best and most clever attempts and ranking trinkets in past expansions, it wasn't quite good enough. We would simulate the trinket effects and then equate that to the most relevant stat, and then stat weights affected it and ranked it. It was just ok. So NOW, every single item with a proc is ranked directly from simulations.

On that note - when you run a 'gearing strategy' in our simulator (our version of stat weights) and use those on the site - every item with a proc gets simulated in that as well. And that sim data gets bundled with the stat weight report so that all of those items are ranked from your custom sims, not stat weights

/over and out. Carry on with ret pally stuff.

[Deleted]

I'd say you read the image wrong. the ilvl shown on the left is regarding the relic ilvl, not the ilvl increase on the weapon. Five ilvl of a relic increase the Ashbringer ilvl by ~1.5. If a Relic increases your damage by ~0.61% like the CS one, it's worth ~2.5 ilvl on ashbringer, aswell as roughly 8 ilvls on the relic itself.

E.g. in Storm's case:
840 Wota relic = 40*0.25 + 1.84 = 11.84
875? CS relic = 51*0.25 + 0.61 = 13.36

Other way to put show it with the chart:
840 WotA relic = 840 + 24 = 866
875? CS relic = 875 + 8 = 883

Conclusion: the CS relic should be better.

As rough reference value:
You need ~8ivl increase on Ashbringer to outperform a WotA relic with a FoL relic(8*0.25=2; 2>1.84).
5ilvl on Ashbringer with a Judge/CS/BoJ relic (5*0.25 + ~0.6+ = 1.85+)
4ilvl on Ashbringer with a TV relic (4*0.25 + 0.86 = 1.86)

bloody hell no!
it is as simple as i wrote it is simple addition ...