7.1.5 PTR Notes Changes for DPS DKs

[wooootles]

I didn't put too many attempts into it, and obviously I'm not proficient enough at this specific spec right now to be able to make the call, but I feel like if they want to make BoS a thing, they're gonna have to make a few more tweaks, or we'll be forced to certain legendaries, and without them, it won't be possible.

Random thoughts, has anyone on PTR checked Nighthold if there's an encounter with minimal "drop gunk away from raid mechanics" like a lot in EN and/or if there's a boss with high-uptime cleave phase?

[Deleted]

I don't think we're expected to help on them.
(Generally) If the adds have low hp and are far away, we let others deal with them.
Dk shouldn't have gap closers, they are the anti-movement, anti-caster class (or was, maybe they moved away from that mindset a little).
We might become OP really fast if our dps is compensated much because of low mobility, it's kind of a dilemma.

Yeah i know ranged should deal with them but its hard to not help out a bit especially during progress.

My comments about dodging shit and trying to keep on the boss while its kited, etc, is valid though

[Deleted]

But you do. Have you seen the Aggramar's change? That's over 20% permanent movespeed with proper frost itemization.

My mate in all blues got those, I am at ilvl 882 and all I rock is Sephuz, shit like this really makes you want to quit the game.

And its not just the adds with Odyn, if you get a rune on the other side of the room you are pretty much fucked, its not the biggest deal but imagine playing a ranged class.

[loanel]

About that sephuz's change, now it suposedly triggers on dispels too. Does that mean that using AMS as frost dk will also trigger the effect (with the artifact trait AMS becomes esentially an uber dispel, it takes off even more stuff than normal dispel spells do)?

[Kronik85]

I tried it that way on the PTR, but without the legendary ring, I found it was too hard to sustain. ERW with the talent actually helps a ton, but the high cooldown and low duration isn't enough to increase the uptime of BoS to acceptable levels. Then there's the fact that BoS itself is on a 2min CD, which means that you're gonna be looking at the boss for quite a while until you can finally use it again, during this time, the damage will be subpar at best, and even when BoS was up, my damage wasn't anything out of the ordinary.

I didn't put too many attempts into it, and obviously I'm not proficient enough at this specific spec right now to be able to make the call, but I feel like if they want to make BoS a thing, they're gonna have to make a few more tweaks, or we'll be forced to certain legendaries, and without them, it won't be possible.

Whether you can perma Breath or not, it will be welcome to have an actual talent for single target in that row rather than Obliteration. Don't have to go for a full BoS build to make it work providing BoS itself does enough damage. Right now we have GA which is meh and Obliteration which is terrible so any BoS buffs are welcome.

[Hctaz]

I was originally in the "calm down, wait and see" crowd. Now I'm in the "whelp, they ain't doing shit" category. Unlikely anymore to see any substantial changes, just small number tweaks like 5% more to DC.

Yeah, see this is the problem with the DK community. I don't know why the fuck we are ALWAYS the "wait and see" crowd but we need to stop this. Immediately the second any changes come out we need to collectively bitch HARD until they make us fucking OP. This happened during the beta with frost. "Wait and see! It'll be okay!" *Legion is released* "Man why is frost so damn bad?!"

[Deleted]

Whether you can perma Breath or not, it will be welcome to have an actual talent for single target in that row rather than Obliteration. Don't have to go for a full BoS build to make it work providing BoS itself does enough damage. Right now we have GA which is meh and Obliteration which is terrible so any BoS buffs are welcome.

That would be fine, if you didn't have to pool RP to keep Icy Talons up. And while Icy Talons keeps being the main focus of our rotation, BoS will never have a spot in the spec, at least as it is, no matter if GA and Oblit are situational or flat out terrible. It's the sad truth. And while BoS was significantly, I don't see it being used unless it's on a BoS-centered spec.

[Kronik85]

That would be fine, if you didn't have to pool RP to keep Icy Talons up. And while Icy Talons keeps being the main focus of our rotation, BoS will never have a spot in the spec, at least as it is, no matter if GA and Oblit are situational or flat out terrible. It's the sad truth. And while BoS was significantly, I don't see it being used unless it's on a BoS-centered spec.

Providing new ME isn't a huge DPS loss over IT or not having IT up altogether, if BoS damage levels are buffed up enough then it really doesn't matter. All BoS has to do be the best talent on the row for single target is be worth using over FS.

[wooootles]

Providing new ME isn't a huge DPS loss over IT or not having IT up altogether, if BoS damage levels are buffed up enough then it really doesn't matter. All BoS has to do be the best talent on the row for single target is be worth using over FS.

Then you'll run into a situation where 98% of players picks BoS over the other two in every encounter (kinda like how IT or FP is right now). I think BoS needs to better only on 2+ targets for it to be not unbalanced.

[Deleted]

Yeah, see this is the problem with the DK community. I don't know why the fuck we are ALWAYS the "wait and see" crowd but we need to stop this. Immediately the second any changes come out we need to collectively bitch HARD until they make us fucking OP. This happened during the beta with frost. "Wait and see! It'll be okay!" *Legion is released* "Man why is frost so damn bad?!"

Why do DK's have to be "fucking OP"?

This "Bitch hard" attitude is the problem in the DK community from my perspective. Such a toxic forum when most of the threads are just absolute sobfests and circlejerks of "low mobility".

DK's are not doing great, but at least we're not unplayable.

[Rainbowdaesh]

Why do DK's have to be "fucking OP"?

This "Bitch hard" attitude is the problem in the DK community from my perspective. Such a toxic forum when most of the threads are just absolute sobfests and circlejerks of "low mobility".

DK's are not doing great, but at least we're not unplayable.

So toxic there are over 100 pages on the wow general forms about the class with zero response, over 100 pages on just blood in this forum, and countless other threads where DK's have consolidated their constructive feedback only to have it be 100% ignored while the classes that actually bitch get looked at.

[Saverem]

I'm just gonna throw this one in:
Why the F do we not get a movement buff?!

We need something like ~10% Movement-Passive and 30 seconds CD on Wrath-Walk.
I mean, its so bad... I can hardly remove my Legendary Boots without feeling like a Turtle.

I've been begging for that since Wrath, doesn't look like it's going to happen. They'd need to some how nerf DG, ranged snare, ranged interrupt in order to improve our movement speed so we're not broken.


I would happily take a interrupt ranged nerf back down to melee range and a CoI nerf if it meant giving us a 30s CD 8s Wraith Walk with 100% movement speed buff.

[Kraeth]

I've been begging for that since Wrath, doesn't look like it's going to happen. They'd need to some how nerf DG, ranged snare, ranged interrupt in order to improve our movement speed so we're not broken.


I would happily take a interrupt ranged nerf back down to melee range and a CoI nerf if it meant giving us a 30s CD 8s Wraith Walk with 100% movement speed buff.

That, however seems to be coming from a pvp perspective, which can be balanced accordingly. DG, CoI and ranged interrupt aren't helping us much raidwise.

[Tyrean]

I posted this in Feb of this year. I think it is relevant to this thread. Sadly, this is just the way it is going to be with DKs. Stop trying to convince yourself that anything will be different. Right now I am only having fun on my DK because I play with a heroic only guild that struggles individually so I am top or near top dps on every encounter. It makes me feel good and have fun. If you are still doing the mythic job raiding then you just need to drop any hope of the DK being at all useful.

No, this is alpha hype. All of those past expansions had the exact same alpha phase, it was just under NDA so we never saw the massive changes. It seems that once the game gets into beta mode it is locked for features and just at tuning/bug phase. This whole alpha is just a huge stunt to convince the dwindling subscriber base that they are listening. The biggest thing I would point to is the outright dismissive attitude towards the consistent frost DK scaling issue. Call it whatever you want, but there is a problem when you start out strong and fall off as the expansion progresses, requiring patches to bring you to mid level performance.

I am also concerned about this "class fantasy" bullshit. They want to make us into this slow moving behemoth that should be scary when it gets to you, but not only does that go totally against the DK fantasy that their own IP set the precedent for, but it does not even play out in game in anyway. This class fantasy crap sounds just like PR jargon to soothe the stupids and not have anything balanced because it is simply beyond their ability.

I am going to make sure I get my ass banned from this site trolling the shit out of all the "Blizzard has it under control mmkay" white knights when this shit goes live. I would love nothing more to eat my words and say publicly that I was wrong, but from 2010 to now has taught me to believe in the tinfoil hat wearers who say Blizzard will just never let DKs be top because of Season 5 PvP and the release of Wrath.

[Saverem]

That, however seems to be coming from a pvp perspective, which can be balanced accordingly. DG, CoI and ranged interrupt aren't helping us much raidwise.

That's why I made a post some months back suggesting that they make Death Grip pull you to enemies that are unable to be pulled to you. So when you use it on a boss, you are pulled to the boss instead of it just giving you "target is immune" error.

Would be a great change and a much needed mobility boost for raiding.

[Schizoide]

I've been begging for that since Wrath, doesn't look like it's going to happen. They'd need to some how nerf DG, ranged snare, ranged interrupt in order to improve our movement speed so we're not broken.

You're completely wrong. Did you even play a DK before Legion?

All DPS DKs had 15% movement speed from Unholy Presence and 8% from boot enchants in Wrath, Cataclysm, and MoP. That's a total of 124% runspeed, all the time. (it was multiplicative back then)

In WoD, all DPS DKs had 10% movement speed from Death's Advance and 10% from cloak enchants, for a total of 120% runspeed all the time.

In Legion, all DPS DKs have... 100% runspeed all the time.

[Saverem]

You're completely wrong. Did you even play a DK before Legion?

All DPS DKs had 15% movement speed from Unholy Presence and 8% from boot enchants in Wrath, Cataclysm, and MoP. That's a total of 124% runspeed, all the time. (it was multiplicative back then)

In WoD, all DPS DKs had 10% movement speed from Death's Advance and 10% from cloak enchants, for a total of 120% runspeed all the time.

In Legion, all DPS DKs have... 100% runspeed all the time.

Implying 124% movement speed under one of 3 presences is good. Also it required the DK to be in UH presence which automatically ruled out the tanks and forced Frost Spec to go for the less damage gains of UH presence in order to get it.

I much prefer having a CD run speed like Wraith Walk then having to stance dance. They just need to actually make WW better and it'll be fine. 100% run speed for 8s on 30s CD would fix the mobility issue.

[Kraeth]

That's why I made a post some months back suggesting that they make Death Grip pull you to enemies that are unable to be pulled to you. So when you use it on a boss, you are pulled to the boss instead of it just giving you "target is immune" error.

Would be a great change and a much needed mobility boost for raiding.

We've been lobbying for that for years, and they give the ability to surv hunters and a similiar one for rogues. So not gonna happen, no way.

[Deleted]

I much prefer having a CD run speed like Wraith Walk then having to stance dance. They just need to actually make WW better and it'll be fine. 100% run speed for 8s on 30s CD would fix the mobility issue.

I would trade duration (shorter) for a lower CD anyday OR make us able to attack while we are in wraith walk like paladin's.

I feel like 8 seconds is only usable while coming back after a wipe or wile playing in the open world but you would miss half of it while in combat (raid / instance)

[Schizoide]

Implying 124% movement speed under one of 3 presences is good. Also it required the DK to be in UH presence which automatically ruled out the tanks and forced Frost Spec to go for the less damage gains of UH presence in order to get it.

Again, you clearly didn't play a DK in past expansions. Both Unholy and Frost DKs used Unholy presence in wrath and cataclysm. It was the highest DPS presence due to its lower GCD. There was no stance dancing.

Note I remembered it wrong in my previous post; DKs got the 1s GCD and Death's Advance was added in MoP (it existed in Cataclysm but did not give base runspeed). So it actually went like this.

WOTLK: 15% Unholy Pres * 8% boot enchant = 124% runspeed
Cataclysm: 15% Unholy Pres * 8% boot enchant = 124% runspeed
MoP Unholy spec: 15% Unholy Pres * 8% boot enchant * 10% Death's Advance = 136% runspeed
MoP Frost spec: 8% boot enchant * 10% Death's Advance = 119% runspeed
WoD: 10% cloak enchant + 10% Death's Advance = 120% runspeed
Legion: 100% runspeed