7.1.5 Ptr Changes

[Baconeggcheese]

I see it as improvement for the future. As of now I am pretty confident it will be no change in throughput overall

Some things can be, if they buff them up to compensate. As of right now its a downgrade as far as I can tell.

namely ST/AoE mixed rows are in better shape

This is only an improvement if they buff us up to compensate, otherwise we're just worse at both since we can't specialize as much as we used to. Again as of right now its a pretty hefty nerf.

This also comes with the issue of us having to be balanced around being well rounded always, which is something that's likely to cause balance issues in the future. With the CDF change they removed one of the best ST knobs they had for the spec, and you're basically trading eradication for soul harvest which is a nerf to ST. It also really doesn't help that soul harvest is on a completely different CD than the other 2 cd's we potentially have. I'm alright with ST where it is on live, it'd become a problem if it goes down any more.

I'm just not super optimistic because they haven't touched anything in 2 builds. Maybe there'll be a big tuning pass later and this is still the mechanics and relative damage phase but I'm getting increasingly confused by the lack of anything in the two builds that they said would give us clarity.

[Zzyzz]

OH, just wait a bit...apologists are already thinking of a way to spin this. And I can guess how they are going to do it.

By "apologists", do you mean the same 2 fucked up fanboy cunts who troll these boards saying how great warlocks are and how anyone who doesn't think warlocks are great is stupid?

Infracted - Woz

[kavousanos]

Your post seemed to imply Mages got significant buffs, when nothing of the sort happened.

Mages got nerfs in their spike damage, sure, but a 42% base damage increase on their highest damaging spell and an average of 20% on every other damaging spell are significant buffs and mean that the devs are not pleased with the performance of mages and are actively working on them.
That's my point.

[Reaper11b]

By "apologists", do you mean the same 2 fucked up fanboy cunts who troll these boards saying how great warlocks are and how anyone who doesn't think warlocks are great is stupid?

What an insightful and mature reply.

[Valkaneer]

Well, I think we had conversation about it when it came out. I see it as improvement for the future. As of now I am pretty confident it will be no change in throughput overall, but at the same time several important long term changes happened for Destruction, namely ST/AoE mixed rows are in better shape, Mana Tap gone and replaced with far less annoying mechanic and CDF buffed which adds new options for us. Even Shadowburn change is a strategic value in PvE because by removing it from CB competition it can be more easily balanced to compete with alternatives in that row.

All of that is positive improvements long term and if by some reason numbers won't add up, they are just numbers that can be bumped anytime.

The only real negative change for me is GoSac, simply because I yearn for petless destruction and this is a move in the opposite direction.

Well there may be movement in a possible good direction. That does not change that even in the 90th + percentile on half the fights we are almost bottom of the charts, then next we are near the top. Mainly for Affliction this is due to only one talent, Sow the Seeds. I don't find it acceptable that our position on the charts fluctuates so badly based weather Sow the Seeds a can be used that fight or not.

There is little reason that we can't have execute back which was the method that balanced out afflictions slow ramp up time. How was Malefic Grasp a move in the right direction? With all of our Dot duration's expiring at different times it's near impossible to get good up time. Haste is the enemy here with MG, the the shorter the duration the harder and harder it is to keep up-time on DS.

We lost some real quality of life items in the last few prunings. Soul Link was a staple mark thing that we have had I as long as I can think. Why do we have one of the more difficult classes to play with little pay out, and at times no pay out at all since we find our self near the bottom of the charts on ST. I don't want to be OP, OP means you get hammered hard with nerfs, all I'm asking for is some balance and that we stop getting our dps from gimmicky talents like Sow the Seeds and Soul Effigy, and for the spec to be fun to play.

I really think Soul Effigy burns the community up in general, a small group of people like it, but I think the majority find it extremely cumbersome and not fun to play. Yet is the only viable option really. If they wanted to move in a positive direction it would be done on Soul Effigy and the things that are a drain on the game. A bastard version of a failed Mage talent has not become the affliction locks saving grace??? Feels more like a kick in the teeth.

I think people in general just want to have fun more than anything else, and with Legion they have found themselves in a situation where the class is not fun due to cumbersome talents that are not being changed, but they can not escape it due to Artifact Weapons. Pyro was not very happy with the situation Desto is in, and he is not some cry baby whiner either. You seem to have a very different outlook on the position Desto is in than Pyro does. Perhaps he has changed is tune in the last few weeks, but last time I saw him talking about desto it was not one of favorable review.

[Gaidax]

I certainly hope that Soul Effigy finds itself near Mana Tap in the scrapyard. Affliction would be really nice without being tied to this thing.

There are things to improve for every spec, that's for certain, eventually with enough feedback we will get there. But less rage and more constructive discussion is the way to do this - contrary to the popular belief one does not have to saturate his feedback with f-bombs and veiled/open insults to make it count eventually.

There is plenty of good with how warlocks are done, but there is also a lot of awkward or bandaid additions as well that sour the package, the likes of Soul Effigy or now ELT, for that matter. It's important to preserve the good and improve the bad.

[Zenny]

Mages got nerfs in their spike damage, sure, but a 42% base damage increase on their highest damaging spell and an average of 20% on every other damaging spell are significant buffs and mean that the devs are not pleased with the performance of mages and are actively working on them.
That's my point.

So? With the newer nerfs to Critical Mass and PI those buffs are worthless and is basically overall another nerf. You used words like "MAJOR, dramatic buffs", "reversed overnight". Nothing of the sort happened.

[Valkaneer]

Apparently there is also an across the board stealth nerf for all classes by the means of stats. Just checked it myself and indeed my crit, haste, and mastery are lower on the PTR than on live.

[Baconeggcheese]

Apparently there is also an across the board stealth nerf for all classes by the means of stats. Just checked it myself and indeed my crit, haste, and mastery are lower on the PTR than on live.

They nerfed scaling because they buffed jewelry scaling. It ends up being about the same in the end or a tiny tiny bit less once your jewelry is caught up because you're not wearing 30 ilvl lower pieces due to them having a specific stat. 880 jewelry gained something like 5-600 stat.

Kind of obvious thing that was going to happen when they said they'd buff the jewelry scaling.

[Caolela]

Apparently there is also an across the board stealth nerf for all classes by the means of stats. Just checked it myself and indeed my crit, haste, and mastery are lower on the PTR than on live.

Nice, that means enjoy more wipes and longer grinds - unless you grind up your JC and get lucky slots. And no one sees the pattern here since at least the beginning of Legion, but actually much further back than that?

Does anyone feel they've been lied to repeatedly from arrogant devs for the sake of maximizing profits? How many more months will you wait for that other promised shoe to drop?

[Livevil]

Well i don't think there will be another round of changes incoming before the patch goes live as it is aimed to go live before christmas.

So what we have now is what we get with 7.1.5. We should begin to get used it.

Isn't 7.1.5 supposed to come with the release of Nighthold late January? This cant possibly be the "patch that would add lots of utility and old spells back to the overpruned classes".

[Valkaneer]

They nerfed scaling because they buffed jewelry scaling. It ends up being about the same in the end or a tiny tiny bit less once your jewelry is caught up because you're not wearing 30 ilvl lower pieces due to them having a specific stat. 880 jewelry gained something like 5-600 stat.

Kind of obvious thing that was going to happen when they said they'd buff the jewelry scaling.

I don't get it, my haste value for demo and mastery for affliction is still sky high, so what are they doing to rings that is going to make me want to take a ring 30 ilvl higher? I think haste value is what 2 x higher than other stats with demo.

[Bullettime]

I certainly hope that Soul Effigy finds itself near Mana Tap in the scrapyard. Affliction would be really nice without being tied to this thing.

There are things to improve for every spec, that's for certain, eventually with enough feedback we will get there. But less rage and more constructive discussion is the way to do this - contrary to the popular belief one does not have to saturate his feedback with f-bombs and veiled/open insults to make it count eventually.

There is plenty of good with how warlocks are done, but there is also a lot of awkward or bandaid additions as well that sour the package, the likes of Soul Effigy or now ELT, for that matter. It's important to preserve the good and improve the bad.

Which is true. The concern is mostly that the initial shifting in Destruction was good for design but no numbers adjusted this build at all, meaning it's a net nerf.

Affliction "changes" confuse me as well. Malefic Grasp sounds fantastic, if only it weren't competing with Writhe in Agony and we spend only like 20% of an encounter even using our channeled filler between mechanics, Effigy, dots, and Pandemic.

This is why I was, at the very least, hoping for some usability changes to Affliction and some numbers for Destruction, unless they really do have more in the pipeline we're not seeing, but that seems very unlikely given the scope of changes already going into the other pure DPS classes.

My bare minimum hopes, at least for Affliction, was for Drain Soul to actually hit like live Drain Soul and not less than live Drain Life and for Effigy to do something, anything, to make it less annoying such as doubling the duration of dots on it, which would have hopefully bought more filler time to use Malefic Grasp in certain cases.

[Ashnazg]

Isn't 7.1.5 supposed to come with the release of Nighthold late January? This cant possibly be the "patch that would add lots of utility and old spells back to the overpruned classes".

No, 7.1.5 is likely going to hit at PvP season's end on December 13th.

Nighthold is already in, so they don't need its release to coincide with a major patch, though 7.2 will likely hit shortly after Nighthold opens. Tomb of Sargeras won't be available for weeks after 7.2 hits, so that gives enough time for people to raid Nighthold prior to Tomb release.

[effs]

No, 7.1.5 is likely going to hit at PvP season's end on December 13th.

Nighthold is already in, so they don't need its release to coincide with a major patch, though 7.2 will likely hit shortly after Nighthold opens. Tomb of Sargeras won't be available for weeks after 7.2 hits, so that gives enough time for people to raid Nighthold prior to Tomb release.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/7...larifications/

7.1.5 isn't tied to season 2, according to Ornyx.

[Avikur]

No, 7.1.5 is likely going to hit at PvP season's end on December 13th.

Nighthold is already in, so they don't need its release to coincide with a major patch, though 7.2 will likely hit shortly after Nighthold opens. Tomb of Sargeras won't be available for weeks after 7.2 hits, so that gives enough time for people to raid Nighthold prior to Tomb release.

They said 7.1.5 wasn't tied to PVP season end, although I expect it to be released pretty soon, I mean there really isn't much to test so no reason to drag it out. Unless there are more class changes coming in the next build, if this is it and it's just number tuning then shouldn't be long.

[Deleted]

they even officially said that the patch comes AFTER the new PvP season. So 20th december the earliest

Looking at the 7.1.5 patch though I would be happy if they delayed it another 2-3 ... years.

[Baconeggcheese]

I don't get it, my haste value for demo and mastery for affliction is still sky high, so what are they doing to rings that is going to make me want to take a ring 30 ilvl higher? I think haste value is what 2 x higher than other stats with demo.

I've yet to see how they plan to bring secondaries closer to each other for outlier specs like demo or fire, but they aren't the norm. That is one of the more confusing parts of the lack of any lock changes we're seeing.

It's a huge change for the rings though, right now I don't think I'd even take an 895 ring unless it had a socket, in 7.1.5 it won't be a question it'll absolutely be better. This'll be true for most specs in the game who's secondaries are much closer than demo or fires.

[Avikur]

Not sure if it's already been posted here but Pyromancer is doing a survey to present data to the devs:

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...2228236?page=1

worth helping him by completing his questionnaire.

[Bullettime]

Just filled it out. Definitely an interesting way to get some attention.