"Murder in VR Should Be Illegal"

[Forogil]

An interesting thought I read a long time ago - but it is not clear if it is an argument pro or con:

People use VR to train how to perform various tasks; and I believe the military and law enforcement might use (or already use) VR to simulate violent encounters. That indicates that it actually makes you better at that task - which involves killing people; and assumedly murderers could do the same.

However, that also means that people should be allowed to use them for self defense, and for training to become police officers/soldiers (especially in the US; where people may claim it is part of their militia training).

[Machismo]

It's a ridiculous assertion, one that infringes on the basic freedoms of humanity... the freedom to think and imagine. Angela Buckingham is a tool who is just trying to be controversial and politically correct at the same time. That's like saying sex toys should be illegal, until we can determine if people who use them are more likely to rape others.

[Sodia]

Ehhh Americans ..... and there "morals"... No coment...

[Machismo]

Ehhh Americans ..... and there "morals"... No coment...

The author is Australian.

[Boyinawell]

Should VR flag burning be illegal? /deep

[Danuru]

Murder, mass murder, genocide, rapine, mugging, torture, rape. All things that have happened long before the first books were written, and will continue to happen. People do these things because of impulsive anger, because they are sick and twisted, or they are somehow messed up in the head. I have never seen evidence that motives for such actions ever fall outside those things.

If someone were to kill someone supposedly because they experienced it in a video game, then there is something wrong with them, and they were a threat to people long before they put on that VR headset. Trying to stop murder by blaming VR is like trying to stop obesity by making apple pie (and only apple pie) illegal. It's stupid, impractical, and will have almost no effect, if any effect at all.

If you were to ban murder from VR, the only logical thing to do would to ban it from all media. But as pointed out in my first paragraph, these things existed before writing was even a thing. So no matter how many books you burn, it won't help a damned thing. In fact, the loss of such culture and history might make things worse, as people won't be able to see for themselves how bad these things are.

[Hctaz]

This has nothing to do with being afraid of anything. It has to do with not trying to extrapolate from the effects of regular video games what the effects of ultra realistic VR would be or assuming that it can only be positive.

Not necessarily fear but comfortable-ness. Like riding a roller coaster after you just rode on one is easier than your first one sort of thing. And I say the effects can really only be positive because I feel that the outcome of many murderous individuals will remain the same either way but the number of murders you can potentially stop with this sort of thing will outweigh the amount of people who use this as a means to practice and kill in theory at least. If the net worth is that 1 less person commits a murder wouldn't you say that is a positive effect? If 30 less people commit murders but 29 new ones do, you've still hit a net positive. Even that result is a good one.

- - - Updated - - -

Murder, mass murder, genocide, rapine, mugging, torture, rape. All things that have happened long before the first books were written, and will continue to happen. People do these things because of impulsive anger, because they are sick and twisted, or they are somehow messed up in the head. I have never seen evidence that motives for such actions ever fall outside those things.

See, it's a human desire, right? I don't expect you to have read the previous posts but would you agree that by having a realistic murder simulator that some people might actually be able to quell their desires in a virtual way?

I feel like this sort of thing would reduce the overall number of people driven to murder. Somebody who is sick and twisted can get their kicks in a manner entirely fictional and therefore wouldn't feel the need to take action. At the very least it could potentially stall their desires for days or years which could either be long enough for them to get help or die from outside sources.

[Mister Cheese]

Because it's not the liberals who freak about about violence in video games, it's the conservatives.

Basic stuff.

No actually. Both liberals and conservatives flip out at violence in video games. Both for different reasons. They're two different sides on the same coin.

[Dys]

Gotta start working on that "Carve Up Your Carefully Chosen Victim" Simulator VR. If there's so many would be killers that this is topic is a concern, then this will be an absolute cash cow of a game. Even experienced murderers will want to pick it up to see if there's any new tricks they can employ!

[Kujako]

Gotta start working on that "Carve Up Your Carefully Chosen Victim" Simulator VR.

"Surgeon" Simulator VR.

[Archonite]

To me the suggestion to make murder in VR illegal is stupid since it misses one major issue. If this really is about us indulging our violent nature in a very realistic setting, it wouldnt just be murder that people are worried about. Supposedly VR will become so realistic to people that they feel they are holding an actual knife, making eye contact with a person while feeling their blood on them when going for the kill. But if all of this really was so realistic to people, then murder wouldnt be the only problem. Another big problem would be that your character (you) could get killed. If things really felt that realistic, imagine the terror of getting killed over and over again, it would be torture. By completing being ignorant of this aspect, to me its clear this isnt about a genuine worry related to the mental health and safety of gamers, but just a biased view against violence in games

[Beazy]

Sounds like the guys over at Vice have been watching too much Westworld.

[IIamaKing]

While watching West World I cant help but feel that the people who like to rape and dismember and murder in the simulation, should maybe at least have an eye kept on them.

[Cthulhu 2020]

If we've learned anything from the movies, it's that if you die in Virtual Reality you die in real life!

That's anime silly.

[Mistame]

That's anime silly.

Sounds like we need some VR anime to kill off all the weeaboos.

[Deleted]

Murder you said:

is that postal

[Deleted]

While watching West World I cant help but feel that the people who like to rape and dismember and murder in the simulation, should maybe at least have an eye kept on them.

That's kind of the point of westworld, the reckless abandon of the game

Modern video games are extremely realistic compared to the pac-mans and asteroids of the 1970s

Yet you don't even think twice to walk into a village of kobolds in World of Warcraft and kill them all and collect 10 of their candles to bring them to some guy you just met who asked you to, for a reward of 2 gold coin and some experience points

It's a video game, right?

Just kill everyone and collect 10/10 of whatever it is and move on to the next quest

[Stormdash]

What manner of crime does anyone think this should be? What is the charge you have in mind?

[Yvaelle]

Until we understand the consequences of how violence in virtual reality might change us, virtual murder should be illegal.

Let's assume we are going to make such a case:

1. The immersiveness of the virtual experience matters. Murdering someone in a virtual experience which is lower polygon-count is less immersive, than murdering someone in a virtual experience as described in the OP - with tactile pressure feedback, true-to-life color and depth perception, pitch perfect sound effects in full surround environments.

2. Perspective is important. Watching a movie in which a murder occurs, or reading a book in which a character murders another, or playing a game in which you play the murderer - are different perspectives which matter to the level of participation and responsibility you take in the murder. The most severe of which would be murder simulators which place you into the role of the murderer.

Now - consider a thought experiment - imagine someone you truly detest, a person you perhaps have contemplated murdering in your most hate-fueled moment of rage in your life: even if only for the briefest of moments. Picture that person now, remember the hate and rage you once bore for them - and I want you to imagine the most horrific imaginable death you could inflict upon that person. Aim for something so horrible that you disturb yourself with your own imagination.

Now hold that thought.

3. What you have just done, is engage the most immersive virtual reality generator which has ever existed, and which could ever possibly be created - in an act of virtual murder. All human perception, whether virtual or real, is - in fact - virtual within the confines of our mind: because all actions which we take even in the real world, are reconstructed through our senses, in our minds, to create a perfect virtual environment which we refer to variously as perception (real time) or memory (past perceptions). All realities are virtual. Within your mind.

If we are to believe that virtual murder is equivalent to real murder, then the thought experiment you just engaged in above - is an indistinguishable virtual reality to what we perceive to be the real world, because both are subject to the same mind. In the first point above I addressed that the quality of the virtual environment determines the immersiveness of it - nothing will ever be more real than what our minds can create - because even if a virtual reality were superior, it would be limited by the capability of our mind to perceive it. In the second point I argued that perspective was an essential element to the responsibility for virtual (or real) murder - which is resolved by asking you to consider yourself the killer in the thought experiment. In the third point I indicated that the mind is our gateway to reality - which is itself virtual: limited by our perceptions and senses.

If virtual murder is real murder, than no murder can be more immersive, more responsible, or more horrific than the example you envisioned: it is literally the worst murder imaginable by you (for that is what I asked you to do). If that is what you believe, then you should recognize that you are now the worst monster in all the world, you should voluntarily submit yourself to a lifetime of solitary confinement, or capital punishment - depending on your beliefs on that subject. If you fail to lock yourself up or seek out your own execution - then you are either a coward or a hypocrite.

[Sinyc]

Edit: Just saw that this is from Vice. This explains it - a tabloid dribble equivalent of an Indian soap opera

This.

/10char