Trump to Announce Carrier Plant Will Keep Jobs in U.S.

[Felya]

It is costing more to keep these companies here than paying welfare for those people that will go unemployed, you are advocating giving these corporations welfare. Why not train these people for jobs in the future and solve the problem long term?

Not the future, but now. Places like India, China and Poland already produce low skilled workers, than in US require a degree.

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Because someone who has worked as a Machinist for 25 years isn't gonna magically become a computer engineer...

When did education become magic?

[Felya]

They'd be lucky to make $30/hr as a master machinist. The median pay for that job is closer to $20.

The reason US is a success, is because we ignored Henry Ford and doubled down in supporting horse buggy manufacturing. Oh wait...

[Cthulhu 2020]

So Trump appointed a Goldman Sachs executive, Steven Mnunchin to head the treasury department.

GUYS HILLARY IS IN BED WITH WALL STREET, VOTE FOR TRUMP HE LOVES THE SMALL MAN AND ISN'T A BOUGHT POLITICIAN!

[Moshots]

70-30 lol? that is some high level "trump facts", when the actual stats show that red states take in more welfare money, specifically Mississippi, Louisiana, Tennessee, South Dakota are the highest in the nation (it is worth to note at the state level Ca, IL, Tx are the highest spenders in '16's budget)

2013 snap shows whites with 40.2%, blacks 25.7, and Hispanics at 10.3 share of the program, now the usual talking point the right points out that blacks have a higher percentage of their total demographic on snap, which of course is spin on the simple fact more white people are the majority on the snap program.

Not to use race as the answer to your question here. but 92% of Black voters voted for Hillary and something like 72% of Hispanics... So that right there shows like 30% of the 36% combined total Minorities collecting welfare are democrats right to start.... Before you even start dividing the white population...

No way that 80% of the remaining welfare recipients are republicans... which is what it would take to even make it 50-50%.

Even if 50% of all the white welfare recipients collecting were republicans that would mean 65-35 Democrat/Republican when taking into accounts the minority that go democrat.

But again were not talking about race here were talking about which party is freely giving handouts while Taxing corperations to the point they send jobs oversea's to cause more people to need handouts. and then on top of that not Imposing a tariff... If you think republicans are the only ones "bending over" to big Business the democrats lack of trying to put a tariff on trade to keep corporations here just because they don't want to make other countries mad is almost a sick joke for what they actually Preach as their values.

And don't get me wrong I believe that welfare itself is a good system and There are people who can't support themselves and need it to survive.... But we as a country need to protect jobs and limit the number of people needing welfare benefits that are fully able bodied people who are being forced to turn to it cause their job and pension just got shipped to mexico.

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They'd be lucky to make $30/hr as a master machinist. The median pay for that job is closer to $20.

My uncle makes $28 dollars an hour at his job... but as I said he currently has something like 30 years experience.. and he has been lucky working for the same company for 24 of those years. (he left to another job for 3-4 years then came back to take a higher position) What people don't get is if the auto industry or the others leave they take all these little factories that locally produce parts for them with them..... So when the News say's 10,000 jobs saved at a Plant its more like 20,000-25,000 jobs when you take into account the fallout for Steel Mills/Parts producing plants that make the product for those Plants.

[Pterodactylus]

So there you have it Ford and now Carrier Trump hasn't even been sworn in yet and he has done more in 20 days as president elect than Obama has in 8 years as president to keep well paying manufacturing jobs here in the US

How much does the state of Indiana have to pay to keep those 1000 jobs? Which still means a loss of over a 1000 jobs by the way.

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2,000 manufacturing workers isn't wall street missy

1000 jobs. Half those folks are shit out of luck.

[Pterodactylus]

you tell that to the 2,000 factory worker that is 2,000 less we would have on food stamps 2,000 workers pay checks that supported the local economy

1000. There is still 1000 more that are out of a job.

From your source, to put it in context for you.

Political symbolism aside, saving 1,000 Carrier jobs doesn’t loom so large in an economy that’s created an average of 181,000 jobs a month this year, noted Jared Bernstein, a liberal economist who served as adviser in the Obama administration from 2009 to 2011.

[Felya]

Not to use race as the answer to your question here. but 92% of Black voters voted for Hillary and something like 72% of Hispanics... So that right there shows like 30% of the 36% combined total Minorities collecting welfare are democrats right to start.... Before you even start dividing the white population...

No way that 80% of the remaining welfare recipients are republicans... which is what it would take to even make it 50-50%.

Even if 50% of all the white welfare recipients collecting were republicans that would mean 65-35 Democrat/Republican when taking into accounts the minority that go democrat.

But again were not talking about race here were talking about which party is freely giving handouts while Taxing corperations to the point they send jobs oversea's to cause more people to need handouts. and then on top of that not Imposing a tariff... If you think republicans are the only ones "bending over" to big Business the democrats lack of trying to put a tariff on trade to keep corporations here just because they don't want to make other countries mad is almost a sick joke for what they actually Preach as their values.

Voting is not compulsory and only 54% of eligible voters voted at all. If you include welfare recipients who are not eligible to vote, like felons and under voting age. Basically, your assertions are absurd...

[Moshots]

Voting is not compulsory and only 54% of eligible voters voted at all. If you include welfare recipients who are not eligible to vote, like felons and under voting age. Basically, your assertions are absurd...

Should I have included +-2% to make you happy?

if 54% of a Group of people voted. Stastically speaking you could assume with a +-2% or even +-1% Margin of error that the other 46% of that group would fall into the same catagory.

I mean hell election polls are supposed to be statistically accurate to +-4% and they are taking into account 2,000 people in states of Millions...

[Felya]

Do the folks who support propping up wallstreet during the recession? The same too big to fail arguments are being used here... the reason Wallstreet needed a bail out, was in part because the too big to fail work closings. The same thing for automotive industry... then cole.. now just everyone, excluding the public it self? How long are we going to continue to prop up horse buggy infrastructure, while complaining about foreign cars?

[Stop Pretending]

Hillary has nothing to do with this thread, so your initial post is a pointless interjection.

So you're getting butthurt because the truth hurts? Go get some ointment.

[Felya]

Should I have included +-2% to make you happy?

if 54% of a Group of people voted. Stastically speaking you could assume with a +-2% or even +-1% Margin of error that the other 46% of that group would fall into the same catagory.

I mean hell election polls are supposed to be statistically accurate to +-4% and they are taking into account 2,000 people in states of Millions...

That's not the point. You are asserting 1:1 ratio between welfare recipients and voters. When only half the country voted. With pure bias, I can assert that not a single welfare recipient voted, because the amount of people who didn't vote is greater than the amount of welfare recipients. That's just as baseless as what you are doing. Your assertion is illogical and the reply shows a deep misunderstanding of the numbers you are using...

[Felya]

So you're getting butthurt because the truth hurts? Go get some ointment.

Uhm... you are insulting a random person on the internet... he isn't the one acting "butt hurt"... he will be if he bites and starts insulting back, but until then... mirrors and all that..

[Draco-Onis]

Because someone who has worked as a Machinist for 25 years isn't gonna magically become a computer engineer.....

We need to do both and start a 20-30 year Plan of starting to train people young now and slowely phase out these jobs not just let them jump oversea's as fast as they can get out of the country.... My uncle started working as a Machinist at a Die cast job making screws and bolts when he was 19... he's now in his 50's making almost 30 dollars an hour as a Master Machinist he can make anything and run every machine in that shop... There are so many people who's livelyhood this is playing with just to save the taxpayers a few dollars....... Start a 20-30 year plan where in 20-30 years you start phasing all Labor to other countries but you would have to find a way to create 1 tech Job for every 1 Labor Job and that is not a easy task....

You can get your education in about 2 years with an accelerated jobs training program, it is not magic we simply need a system to retrain low skilled workers. It is not possible for everyone to get jobs or same pay since some people will be too old and have difficulty adapting. We can also help small businesses further by making loans more available and giving those up and coming companies tax breaks to grow instead of huge corporations who only give themselves raises and do stock buy backs that create zero jobs.

But you have to realize if we keep doing this we are basically subsidizing jobs that are obsolete, this only helps the CEOs and people at the top who are getting those government handouts.

[Bullettime]

Do the folks who support propping up wallstreet during the recession? The same too big to fail arguments are being used here... the reason Wallstreet needed a bail out, was in part because the too big to fail work closings. The same thing for automotive industry... then cole.. now just everyone, excluding the public it self? How long are we going to continue to prop up horse buggy infrastructure, while complaining about foreign cars?

Because people think all the solutions are evil socialism.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Not to use race as the answer to your question here. but 92% of Black voters voted for Hillary and something like 72% of Hispanics... So that right there shows like 30% of the 36% combined total Minorities collecting welfare are democrats right to start.... Before you even start dividing the white population...

No way that 80% of the remaining welfare recipients are republicans... which is what it would take to even make it 50-50%.

Even if 50% of all the white welfare recipients collecting were republicans that would mean 65-35 Democrat/Republican when taking into accounts the minority that go democrat.

But again were not talking about race here were talking about which party is freely giving handouts while Taxing corperations to the point they send jobs oversea's to cause more people to need handouts. and then on top of that not Imposing a tariff... If you think republicans are the only ones "bending over" to big Business the democrats lack of trying to put a tariff on trade to keep corporations here just because they don't want to make other countries mad is almost a sick joke for what they actually Preach as their values.

Seems we're at an impasse then, as maintaining our current way of life with government spending the way it is cannot be maintained with reduced corporate taxes. Trump is set to increase the budget far more than Obama ever could. His plans to renew our infrastructure could add trillions more to the debt if not compensated for in some way.

Plus his plan to deport ALL THE ILLEGALS, build a wall, invest in coal and oil... he has immense spending plans.

When Obama proposed some pretty modest programs, conservatives were shitting their brains out. Trump proposes blowout spending the likes of which we've never seen, combined with tax cuts bigger than ever, and they're cheering.

[Moshots]

Please provide the actual figures and calculations you're using to come to these conclusions.

read the post I was responding to where he shared the race figures for Snap Benefits.

40.2% white 25.7% african american 10.3% Hispanic which leaves 23.8% as Race Undetermined...


In my calculations I even gave the benefit of the doubt and lumped the 23.8% undetermined in with white voters. The actual Numbers if they were publically available would probably end up leaning more towards my original 70-30 Belief but even with my lax numbers it would take something like 80% of all white american welfare recepients to be Republicans and 80% of all Undermined race to be Republicans to make 50% of all welfare recipients republican.

and again I have nothing against welfare reciepients. Just making the point that there is a reason the republicans are trying to keep jobs for the working class and democrats are not caring about it.

Democrats control 60% of all the tech/ect/College level jobs.
and 60+% of all welfare.

They are fine with eliminating working class jobs and shipping them oversea's to save a buck without adding a tarif.. why save jobs of people who Lean heavily republican. Doesn't affect them in the polls at all.

[Bullettime]

read the post I was responding to where he shared the race figures for Snap Benefits.

40.2% white 25.7% african american 10.3% Hispanic which leaves 23.8% as Race Undetermined...


In my calculations I even gave the benefit of the doubt and lumped the 23.8% undetermined in with white voters. The actual Numbers if they were publically available would probably end up leaning more towards my original 70-30 Belief but even with my lax numbers it would take something like 80% of all white american welfare recepients to be Republicans and 80% of all Undermined race to be Republicans to make 50% of all welfare recipients republican.

and again I have nothing against welfare reciepients. Just making the point that there is a reason the republicans are trying to keep jobs for the working class and democrats are not caring about it.

Democrats control 60% of all the tech/ect/College level jobs.
and 60+% of all welfare.

They are fine with eliminating working class jobs who Lean heavily republican. Doesn't affect them in the polls at all.

More that the Democrats don't want to use assloads of tax payer dollars to temporarily prop up jobs that are replaced by automation and instead fund retraining initiatives and cheaper to free college to move people into other fields that have growth potential.

Clinton and Sanders both had this as parts of their platform. Clinton just sucked at getting people fired up and blind empty promises of a miracle pill sounded a lot better.

[Moshots]

Seems we're at an impasse then, as maintaining our current way of life with government spending the way it is cannot be maintained with reduced corporate taxes. Trump is set to increase the budget far more than Obama ever could. His plans to renew our infrastructure could add trillions more to the debt if not compensated for in some way.

Plus his plan to deport ALL THE ILLEGALS, build a wall, invest in coal and oil... he has immense spending plans.

When Obama proposed some pretty modest programs, conservatives were shitting their brains out. Trump proposes blowout spending the likes of which we've never seen, combined with tax cuts bigger than ever, and they're cheering.

I agree that whatever happens we need to cut spending.... and you talk about modest programs but Obamacare alone has been one of the biggest spenders any president has proposed in the last 30 years Outside maybe the Iraq War (thanks bush....)

More jobs=more taxes for the goverment to collect More free flowing money.... Idk i'm not saying everything the republicans suggest is gonna work... I consider myself a independant who lean's republican on Economic issues and Usually Democratic on Social issues (however I think Obamacare was one of the biggest mistakes ever Single Payer or GTFO with these aweful ideas)

[Bullettime]

I agree that whatever happens we need to cut spending.... and you talk about modest programs but Obamacare alone has been one of the biggest spenders any president has proposed in the last 30 years Outside maybe the Iraq War (thanks bush....)

More jobs=more taxes for the goverment to collect More free flowing money.... Idk i'm not saying everything the republicans suggest is gonna work... I consider myself a independant who lean's republican on Economic issues and Usually Democratic on Social issues (however I think Obamacare was one of the biggest mistakes ever Single Payer or GTFO with these aweful ideas)

Jobs are absolutely important. The issue is more of using tax payer dollars to bribe companies, along with slashing their taxes, to keep a few measly jobs in the country that will be automated anyways, if the company doesn't find a loophole to just outsource them all while keeping the benefits.

Instead of trying to prop up these failing industries and jobs, we need to be funding retraining initiatives and provide support for people going through their training. What Trump is trying to do is just racking up more spending for a short term "gain" and some publicity about how great he's making the country that isn't sustainable and will backfire.

[Cthulhu 2020]

More that the Democrats don't want to use assloads of tax payer dollars to temporarily prop up jobs that are replaced by automation and instead fund retraining initiatives and cheaper to free college to move people into other fields that have growth potential.

Clinton and Sanders both had this as parts of their platform. Clinton just sucked at getting people fired up and blind empty promises of a miracle pill sounded a lot better.

Someone else gets it. Trump won and saw huge voter turnout among his base because he promised magic bullets for everyone's problems.

Of course those magic bullets are going to end up hurting people, and most of them don't even exist.