Blue comment from the PTR forums

[Functional Analysis]

From Watcher:

Feedback: you're leaving the warlock community out in the cold. Please communicate with us. We are extremely desperate.

We agree with a number of the core concerns raised, but don't have immediate solutions (or those solutions will take more time to design, implement, and test than the 7.1.5 PTR cycle affords). A couple of examples off the top of my head:

- Steady/predictable Ember generation suited the Destruction rotation well, and something important was lost in the course of unifying the class to use a single shared resource, but fixing that at this point isn't just as simple as rolling everything back to Embers.

- Mechanics like Demonic Empowerment and Soul Effigy are cumbersome to manage and while they have strong spec-specific theming, the actual gameplay of using them drags down their respective specs.

We're probably too reluctant to acknowledge problems for which we don't yet have a solution to present. But the fact that we haven't yet changed something doesn't mean that we think it's perfect as-is.

Finally something...

us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20752277853?page=3#post-59

[Rockerjompa]

So, I might aswell reroll or unsub since they're not going to fix anything in 7.1.5 and I refuse to wait until 7.2 for some "fixes".

[Darkith]

tl:dr: we're more concerned with creating new content than fixing a class hardly anyone plays.

[Deleted]

Basically, "you're stuck with this shit until the next expansion". You see they could have saved a lot of bad feeling if they'd said something like this two months ago. They also built up way too high an expectation for 7.1.5

Had to laugh about Soul Effigy. What they've finally admitted was obvious and complained about in alpha, i mean, it was exactly what mages said about Prismatic Crystal, makes me think of Einstein's definition of madness, repeating something over and over and hoping for a different result. Read what he says, they stuck with it because they focussed on "class fantasy" and let everything else take a backseat to it.

What's hard to fix about shard generation? Just make an ability guaranteed to generate one: Incinerate, for example. This already happens in Demo with Shadowbolt.

Soul Effigy is harder to fix maybe because the game simply does not support fixes for the worst things about it, which is the stupid range thing and the fact that the UI gives you no help at all with it, particularly as it's not caster-unique. If they canned it in alpha by listening to the feedback then there would have been the time to make a decent replacement.

The only thing they finally listened to was the Reap mechanic of the affliction artifact...so they ripped it out late in beta but left the talents that mesh with it unchanged, as it was too late to do anything with them, so basically you got two Gold talents that work too well (in trash packs) or do little to nothing in many boss fights where affliction performs worst, the two are not unrelated.

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tl:dr: we're more concerned with creating new content than fixing a class hardly anyone plays.

There's a sad truth in that. Lowest population class feels like it's dying on it's feet, and has fallen into neglect and will never get the revamp it needs because so few play it and those numbers won;t go up until it's revamped...and so on.

[Deleted]

It confirms what we have feared. Warlock is going to be a broken class for the entire expansion.

I'll reroll once we've killed Helya on Mythic. Enough is enough.

[Deleted]

It confirms what we have feared. Warlock is going to be a broken class for the entire expansion.

I'll reroll once we've killed Helya on Mythic. Enough is enough.

Atleast it was nice to get a definitive answer instead of all this horseshit blizz have done since legion launch.

Question now is: Do you go ele shaman or Frost/arcane mage for a ranged spec? Which would be more fun mechanically - i've had it with clunky shit specs (warlock all 3.) for the rest of my life.

[8bithamster]

Looking at the responses here I get why Blizzard doesn't respond.

"Guys, we're working on a fix"

"OMG 8.0 WILL BE FiXED SEE?! THATS PROOF OMG IM REROLLING"

"omg liek Warlocks is 100% useless now, as in literally the worst class"

/headdesk

meanwhile, the rest of the playerbase doesn't give a shit and just enjoys the class

also, if at this point you are still doing Heroic ToV and haven't cleared Mythic ToV, your class changes will not break your class so far that your raiding becomes unviable, you're just not that cutting edge.

[Jessicka]

Atleast it was nice to get a definitive answer instead of all this horseshit blizz have done since legion launch.

Question now is: Do you go ele shaman or Frost/arcane mage for a ranged spec? Which would be more fun mechanically - i've had it with clunky shit specs (warlock all 3.) for the rest of my life.

Right now on Live, Frost Mage is a bit clunky with all your FoFs happening basically at once (and therefore often overwriting each other), and especially with Blizzard in the ST rotation, placing reticles for a cast-time AoE isn't ideal; that's looking to be fixed in 7.1.5 though and should be a bit smoother.

[Deleted]

Looking at the responses here I get why Blizzard doesn't respond.

"Guys, we're working on a fix"

"OMG 8.0 WILL BE FiXED SEE?! THATS PROOF OMG IM REROLLING"

"omg liek Warlocks is 100% useless now, as in literally the worst class"

/headdesk

meanwhile, the rest of the playerbase doesn't give a shit and just enjoys the class

also, if at this point you are still doing Heroic ToV and haven't cleared Mythic ToV, your class changes will not break your class so far that your raiding becomes unviable, you're just not that cutting edge.

A few things, to be fair :

- Blizzard didn't excatly say they are going to fix it. They imply it though
- People are allowed to have concerns even if they don't raid Mythic ToV, because it isn't always about cutting edge. People have mechanical, Quality of Life and Enjoyment issues with the class and are wondering where it is headed
- Blizzard said prior to 7.1.5 ptr that many talents that people pick anyways are getting baked into the specc. Destro has a few talents that it would badly need but Blizzard didn't give Destro anything. They actually made the talent tree more awkward and nerfed GoSac, Reverse Entropy and Backdraft.
- This is MMO champion. There is plenty of constructive feedback on the official forums and has been for months.

[Jessicka]

Looking at the responses here I get why Blizzard doesn't respond.

"Guys, we're working on a fix"

"OMG 8.0 WILL BE FiXED SEE?! THATS PROOF OMG IM REROLLING"

"omg liek Warlocks is 100% useless now, as in literally the worst class"

/headdesk

meanwhile, the rest of the playerbase doesn't give a shit and just enjoys the class

also, if at this point you are still doing Heroic ToV and haven't cleared Mythic ToV, your class changes will not break your class so far that your raiding becomes unviable, you're just not that cutting edge.

These are mechanical issues that won't be fixed until probably the next expansion. This has absolutely nothing to do with balance. Talking about rerolling because your class doesn't play how you'd like, and won't be changing for another several months at least, is entirely a valid thing to do.

[tratra]

So his actual response to warlocks is the middle finger in reality.

He is actually saying that he understand that there are issues but they aren't gonna be solved anytime soon and your better off rerolling or continue playing this shitty class dragging down your team because... blizzard.

Infuriating, and am not rerolling. If they don't buff a spec to the point that is viable without switching around and can do sufficient AOE and ST dmg (I dont want it to be top of the meters, middle of the pact will do) I am unsubbing.

[Deleted]

Atleast it was nice to get a definitive answer instead of all this horseshit blizz have done since legion launch.

Question now is: Do you go ele shaman or Frost/arcane mage for a ranged spec? Which would be more fun mechanically - i've had it with clunky shit specs (warlock all 3.) for the rest of my life.

I'll go back to playing my mage.

[MonsieuRoberts]

So we won't be getting a functional replete set of specs until they have time.

See you in 8.0.

[Deleted]

meanwhile, the rest of the playerbase doesn't give a shit and just enjoys the class

Actually the player and parse numbers indicate that much of it just rerolled some time ago and the disatisfaction seems pretty widespread

And I would add, just because someone hasn;t cleared ToV Mythic, or Heroic, or even if they don;t raid at all, that should not mean they aren;t allowed to have an opinion it's like saying "you're not a Michellin reviewer therefore you are not allowed to say you didn't like the food"

Moreover, viable raiding does not necessarily mean happy raiding. It's not good at all to have player grit their teeth and do something they don;t particularly like and be told your numbers are ok so quit complaining

That is, after all, exactly the reason the devs gave for their massive dmeo nerf in WoW...peopel playing something they didn't like just for numbers.

Actually the reposnes are entirely predictable, like

"If only they'd have admitted that in the first place"
"So why build up the expectation for 7.1.5 so high"

and the most obvoius response of all:

"It's yet another 'we're listening there's jam tomorrow' response"

You know, exactly the stuff we heard before we saw what 7.1.5 is really bringing. It also doesn;t help to act all suprised about things liek Soul Effigy, when the issues they have finally admitted to were pointed out by the playerbase right back in alpha testing

But that feedback was ignored because the damn class fantasy was prioritised over everything else. I mean, it's hard to swallow when you played affliction that has had ramp issues forever that have been getting progressively worse, and then they build Legion which is more biased towards burst damage than ever before: what happened? Writhe In Agony and Soul Effigy. And then we get the devs saying "We've had this revelation: affliction is having problems because of ramp!".

The respons eis inevitably going to be sour becuase the playerbase has been saying that not only through alpha and beta but through previous expansions too, the only result is they bring in talents that make it worse than ever, I mean, affliction had less ramp in BC it feels like.


Followed by "We're working on fixes for that in 7.1.5" which is immediately followed by 7.1.5 which does bugger all about ramp.

People are right to be angry about Soul Effigy and stuff like that. It should have died at birth in alpha, that's what alpha is for. It didn;t because it's was someone's big idea and fitted with class fantasy

I remember when we had a headprogrammer who worked like that. He'd produce the most exquisite, elegant code: the problem was, it didn;t do what the users wanted it to do. So when it got bounced back with complaints about fixing it, he just wouldn;t accept there was anything wrong because he was fixated on how well the code worked and threw fits that people complained about it "becuase there is nothing wrong with it"

For affliction at least the class fantasy has taken over playability. Soul Effigy fits with the "it's all about dots" and so do things like Writhe. The problem is they just don;t work very well in Warcraft of 2016 which is fast-paced and biased towards burst, and Soul Effigy sounds liek it should be cool but it's a massive pain in the ass to use: not because of the dot aspect, but because it's extremely user unfriendly.

[Shandalar]

Basically, "you're stuck with this shit until the next expansion". You see they could have saved a lot of bad feeling if they'd said something like this two months ago. They also built up way too high an expectation for 7.1.5

This, basically.

[VooDsXo]

From Watcher:

We agree with a number of the core concerns raised, but don't have immediate solutions (or those solutions will take more time to design, implement, and test than the 7.1.5 PTR cycle affords). A couple of examples off the top of my head:

- Steady/predictable Ember generation suited the Destruction rotation well, and something important was lost in the course of unifying the class to use a single shared resource, but fixing that at this point isn't just as simple as rolling everything back to Embers.

- Mechanics like Demonic Empowerment and Soul Effigy are cumbersome to manage and while they have strong spec-specific theming, the actual gameplay of using them drags down their respective specs.

We're probably too reluctant to acknowledge problems for which we don't yet have a solution to present. But the fact that we haven't yet changed something doesn't mean that we think it's perfect as-is.

Finally something...

us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20752277853?page=3#post-59

Demonic empowerment could easily be fixed by adding a rolling passive that makes say Hand of Gul'dan refresh it rather than refreshing doom would be an obvious but clearly over looked option. Obviously taking into account wanting higher demon spawns it could be tapered to good play.

A more viable solution is Thal'kiel's Consumption having its damage and cooldown reduced so that it becomes a more often used spell, but still requires higher demon spawns to do more damage. Then if you bring the cooldown and damage in line to say it gives a 30-60%~ chance to refresh Demonic empowerment you have another option.

[Deleted]

Right now on Live, Frost Mage is a bit clunky with all your FoFs happening basically at once (and therefore often overwriting each other), and especially with Blizzard in the ST rotation, placing reticles for a cast-time AoE isn't ideal; that's looking to be fixed in 7.1.5 though and should be a bit smoother.

Thanks for the input, I will spend some time looking at mage, since they also seem to have a pvp build that revolves around ice lance and not boring GS. Seems fun and mobile-ish.

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I'll go back to playing my mage.

Yeah but which spec? Fire is boring so its either frost or arcane for me.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the input, I will spend some time looking at mage, since they also seem to have a pvp build that revolves around ice lance and not boring GS. Seems fun and mobile-ish.

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Yeah but which spec? Fire is boring so its either frost or arcane for me.

whichever is the best spec by then

[Deleted]

Wait until they've put allthe classes and specs through the meat grinder that is 7.1.5

It is patently obvious that major changes are happening to classes and specs they said would not be getting major changes, whilst classes they said would be changed aren't, or are getting changes that don;t make sense

Sad to say, it is all more about the fundamental process of Warcraft: it is a hamster in wheel game.

Part of that process is to switch around specs and classes in performance. When they did that infamous "We would rather you not play demonology" Q&A they admitted they have top and bottom specs (and hence classes) and that these change.

Why? Because it is a very echeap way to increase hours played. Change around a few numbers and abilities that make Arcane mages the best mage spec instead of fire, and what happens? The players immediately start to chase Arcane. Level up that artifact, grind those dungeons for gear (why else do different specs have different stat priorities? Answer: they don;t want you to have one gear set and freely switch to whatever spec is this month's best)

Do I think that this is the sole motivation? No. But it's a hell of a big one: Blizzard are a commercial company and the motive is making money. That money comes from subs. Subs come from hours played, and the more hours you pay the "better value" you think you get. Peopel cancel their subs if all they have to do is login to see their garrison - hence the large sub losses at the end of WoD.

It's really very cheap to have players always "chase the carrot". It requires little to no new content, instead it "keeps current content relevant" as the saying goes.

It will be the same with flying. Legion will be built from the ground up with it in mind. But to get it, you can bet there will be some new rep grinds.

It's all a balancing act, basically how much can we mess aroudn with things to entice players to play more hours, but not so much they get pissed off and leave?

Take it from me: a company like Blizzard employ psychologists to help them work that out.

Anyone who doesn;t think that must also believe their supermarket has sale items to benefit customers instead of using sales to increase profits. Everything in a supermarket is designed to get you to buy more: the siz eof the trolley, the lighting, the placement of goods on shelves. Companies sift massive amounts of data to work out how to do that

So do Blizzard.

[BannedForViews]

Looking at the responses here I get why Blizzard doesn't respond.

"Guys, we're working on a fix"

"OMG 8.0 WILL BE FiXED SEE?! THATS PROOF OMG IM REROLLING"

"omg liek Warlocks is 100% useless now, as in literally the worst class"

/headdesk

meanwhile, the rest of the playerbase doesn't give a shit and just enjoys the class

also, if at this point you are still doing Heroic ToV and haven't cleared Mythic ToV, your class changes will not break your class so far that your raiding becomes unviable, you're just not that cutting edge.

Why should anyone play a shitty class and just roll with it? Why is that fun? This isnt my job, this is fun.

why does being in a world racing guild matter? This is tye stupidest argument possibly ever made sbout whether a class needs buffed or not. Just because my pace is slower doesnt mean i wont need to acquire the same gear leve, or higher, as those first players, and doesnt mean i wont still have issues if my class is behind. Content doesnt just get easier after a world first happens, and the game is not made for 100 players who race to kill a boss first. Being cutting edge has nothing to do with anything.