jeff on symmetra changes

[zito]

How so, there is barely anything to gain from better respawn on payload

Because when 1 or 2 people die in the middle of a team fight, that 20 sec run back becomes zero. There have been many clutch fights where if I had no teleporter the team fight would of been lost. Obviously this doesn't happen all the time but her teleporter on attack payload isn't useless, the problem is setting up on attack.

(also sneaking in a teleporter ambush is good too)

[Deleted]

Well, on Payload, the attacking team has a better respawn most of the time, if they die in the middle of a team fight, and the enemy team doesn't suffer any losses, it's better to disengage and have a useful hero imho.

[ati87]

Because when 1 or 2 people die in the middle of a team fight, that 20 sec run back becomes zero. There have been many clutch fights where if I had no teleporter the team fight would of been lost. Obviously this doesn't happen all the time but her teleporter on attack payload isn't useless, the problem is setting up on attack.

(also sneaking in a teleporter ambush is good too)

Your better off having a proper character that can heal or kill and gain the advantage in a group fight then be 1 player short and just have a bit faster spawn time.

Also it doesn't go from 20 secs to 0, and that's assuming the teleport is up.

[zito]

Well, on Payload, the attacking team has a better respawn most of the time, if they die in the middle of a team fight, and the enemy team doesn't suffer any losses, it's better to disengage and have a useful hero imho.

Last check point on attack has a significant run back

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Your better off having a proper character that can heal or kill and gain the advantage in a group fight then be 1 player short and just have a bit faster spawn time.

Also it doesn't go from 20 secs to 0, and that's assuming the teleport is up.

If you need a healer pick a healer. No way did I say replace a healer with her. However sym can kill. Her beam does insane damage with the new added range she's even more deadly and she's actually the second best character to nano boost.

The 20 sec to zero was just an example. The run back still becomes zero and on attack the defending team shouldn't even have the time to flank and waste time finding your teleporter

[ati87]

Last check point on attack has a significant run back

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If you need a healer pick a healer. No way did I say replace a healer with her. However sym can kill. Her beam does insane damage with the new added range she's even more deadly and she's actually the second best character to nano boost.

The 20 sec to zero was just an example. The run back still becomes zero and on attack the defending team shouldn't even have the time to flank and waste time finding your teleporter

You will be running towards the objective allot if your fighting with 5 people instead of 6 because that's what's happening when you use her in any situation.

If you pick any character that can't press for the objective or hold a objective when pressed upon (widowmaker or hanzo) your not really helping.

[Graeham]

Widowmaker and Hanzo are expected to hang back - if they're getting kills or forcing the enemy team to avoid stepping into a particular area then they're definitely doing their job. They just need fairly decent aim to make it worthwhile.

Symmetra - especially with her new changes - brings a lot to the table. She'll be able to set up turret traps much faster to slow the enemy team down or finish them off if they retreat in low health to try and find a health pack only to be finished off by a turret instead.

[Deleted]

Last check point on attack has a significant run back

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If you need a healer pick a healer. No way did I say replace a healer with her. However sym can kill. Her beam does insane damage with the new added range she's even more deadly and she's actually the second best character to nano boost.

The 20 sec to zero was just an example. The run back still becomes zero and on attack the defending team shouldn't even have the time to flank and waste time finding your teleporter

The run back is relatively unimportant, Symmetra is too weak on attack without her turrets, you are basically fighting 5 on 6 and you are betting on a lucky teamfight or something

The only thing the teleporter does is equalizing the spawn advantage. You don't even *gain* the advantage.
And she is not the 2nd best target to Nano boost, because Nano boost doesn't increase movement speed anymore.

[ati87]

Widowmaker and Hanzo are expected to hang back - if they're getting kills or forcing the enemy team to avoid stepping into a particular area then they're definitely doing their job. They just need fairly decent aim to make it worthwhile.

Symmetra - especially with her new changes - brings a lot to the table. She'll be able to set up turret traps much faster to slow the enemy team down or finish them off if they retreat in low health to try and find a health pack only to be finished off by a turret instead.

But your not denying anything when playing Hanzo or WM, a single Rein and his shield and the only thing your doing is lowering his shield really slowly.

If you want to deny the other team any area then then go Junkrat on defensive.

And also finishing off enemies that run away with turrets? The range of those dammed things are what melee range or something, if you have time to place those things to take out runners then you should just use left click.

[Thelxi]

I'm not sure how her E is going to end up changing things. I hope it turns out to be a big part of the meta, but otherwise they just specialized her even further by making her even better at defending.

[Deleted]

He tried to argue that you could use your turret as a trap on a healthpack or something.
Thing is, that will literally only last for 1 kill at best and then they are gone. They are much better used slightly behind your frontline where you can use the DPS while they are busy fighting you or someone else near the point/payload.

Widow can however get entry picks, that's what she is used for
Area denial is technically there, but only if you are scary enough and they don't move as a group.

[shammypie]

You will be running towards the objective allot if your fighting with 5 people instead of 6 because that's what's happening when you use her in any situation.

If you pick any character that can't press for the objective or hold a objective when pressed upon (widowmaker or hanzo) your not really helping.

lol just use her as a counter to genji/tracer

[Deleted]

Both tracer and genji will just dance around her engagement range and kill her puny ass 200 HP body.
Yeah, you can hit them when they ignore you. But so can everybody else.

[Tenjen]

Both tracer and genji will just dance around her engagement range and kill her puny ass 200 HP body.
Yeah, you can hit them when they ignore you. But so can everybody else.

Meanwhile what, the rest of the team is just sitting and staring at this?

Tracer and Genji are also essentially kept a distance away by her presence. Especially since she's has longer range now.

[Deleted]

Not at all.

Not sure why you ask for the rest of the team to do nothing, I even mentioned that every character can help out against a tracer and genji in a 2v1, not just Symmetra. And the only benefit Symmetra has against Genji is that people with console-potato aim can hit them.

The other benefit would be that he can't deflect symmetra, but on a 1on1, he doesn't have to because his TTK is faster than Symmetra's and in a 2on1, it doesn't really matter because other characters can also shoot him in the back etc.

And her beam is still melee-range, feels like you guys didn't even play her. Tracer can probably one clip her outside of her engagement range.
You don't hold a Tracer away if you can't kill her, she's going to unload clip after clip (and get ult in the process) from a safer distance and will outplay you if you don't aggressively deal damage to her even in a 2on1. Symmetra can't do that - 1 blink and your attack is canceled.

She's pretty much a waste of a character slot, even after the change. On defence, ye - maybe.. on attack? Nah.. too squishy, Reaper is just 10 times better. More DPS, more burst, better ult, can disengange and use high ground and flank.

[ati87]

lol just use her as a counter to genji/tracer

She isn't a hard counter to anything so still a waist of slot, and even if she did Genji and Tracer hardly fall in the category that you need to counter anyway.

And non of these changes will address anything, she still can't attack or hold a point when it's needed.

[CatOfHearts]

I kind of hope her E ends up giving her a lot more offensive potential. It feels like it can on PTR, but PTR is a much different game than live servers (ranked especially). Even if you just use it at a shorter range to give yourself some protection to get in close enough with your weapon, I feel like that helps her mobility a lot so she doesn't seem like she has to sit in a corner all game.

[AeneasBK]

And the only benefit Symmetra has against Genji is that people with console-potato aim can hit them.

They made his deflect work on her beam now? Oh.

Otherwise I'd say the advantage Symm has over Genji is none of his ludricrous jumping helps him avoid damage; and his deflect is useless. Sure in an uninterrrupted 1v1 Genji can find the range to avoid it but 95%+ cases it will be part of a larger engagement. Watching Genji jump in and just melt to the lazorbeam is delightful, even if he kills your teams ulting Mcree and Soldier with deflect at the same time

Eitherways, discussions like these are pointless without taking what level people are playing at into account. I'm distinctly average and at my rank Symmetra is probably one of the strongest heros, even before any changes, because people have less than 50% accuracy. So she has a shorter TTK (I like that initialism) than most heros simply because they miss. Ofc Hanzo can one shot her by shooting her in the foot which sucks. But zigzagging irregularly towards a Hanzo in more than half cases results in him just missing you.

Like I say, rank/rating is important.

[Tenjen]

plus 7 meter's is not an insignificant distance. 1v1 makes for a poor arguement

[ati87]

plus 7 meter's is not an insignificant distance. 1v1 makes for a poor arguement

it is a failure of a argument to begin with, more like drawing straws to convince oneself that picking Sym is a option in certain situations.

How many meaningful situations are their anyway in overwatch where 1vs1 is actually important for reaching or holding the objective (3vs3 is by definition not balanced)

[Raetary]

I'm not sure how her E is going to end up changing things. I hope it turns out to be a big part of the meta, but otherwise they just specialized her even further by making her even better at defending.

symmetra is actually really useful on control maps