[TV] Westworld

[ItachiZaku]

Ohhh, NM I see what you're saying, maybe Maeve "fixes" that little problem.

I sort of think she'd modify it, so that she can still use it, if need be. If she is planning to escape with allies, now being INT 20, she'd want contingencies in place to control/eliminate those helping her. Not just in the verbal control way, but if, for example, Dolores were to leave with her and then try to make a public statement...BOOM, dead robot jelly pool.

[Deleted]

I don't think that the 2 engineers who worked on Maeve and modified her are hosts too, (according to the theory about the skin healing device technology shouldnt be here as it's a human healing equipment in the lab designed to repair hosts only).

Following this theory they would be hosts controlled by Ford or by someone else and that would explain why Maeve can be modified so heavily without to trigger any alarm anywhere, but think about it :

Maeve knew instantly that Bernard was a host too on their last discussion, she would have known for the 2 engineers too and wouldnt have said her now famous sentence here written in yellow if i'm not mistaken

[melodramocracy]

Maeve knew instantly that Bernard was a host too on their last discussion, she would have known for the 2 engineers too and wouldnt have said her now famous sentence here written in yellow if i'm not mistaken

When she met the 2 engineers, she didn't have the intelligence that she has when she meest Bernard for the first time. I've thought that they may be hosts, but wonder why bother giving them a persona at all if they aren't going to interface with the public? It would cause more trouble than it's worth, as we've already seen.

[nomorepriest]

What if Maeve is actually a third time line... that's why Arnold needs so much control...

If you noticed that the logo is different when Maeve is around

[Deleted]

When she met the 2 engineers, she didn't have the intelligence that she has when she meest Bernard for the first time. I've thought that they may be hosts, but wonder why bother giving them a persona at all if they aren't going to interface with the public? It would cause more trouble than it's worth, as we've already seen.

I agree but only if we consider that she used her intelligence to distinguish people from hosts and not some basic programming (as hosts do in the park with clients already in some way).

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What if Maeve is actually a third time line... that's why Arnold needs so much control...

If you noticed that the logo is different when Maeve is around

I didn't notice that that could be the ending of season 1, 3 timelines !

[nomorepriest]

I think it's like this

William time line ---------- Maeve time line ----------- Present timeline

[Arrowstormen]

I doubt Maeve is on her own timeline. Leaves us with even less for season 2. If we look back earlier on in the season, I find it hard to believe that Dolores triggering Maeve after hearing the trigger words from her father wasn't in the present timeline (which would put all of Maeve's story in the present timeline). Sizemore seems to be the author behind the dude who's with Maeve's storyline too.

[cubby]

I think it's like this

William time line ---------- Maeve time line ----------- Present timeline

Would be interesting, but doubtful. Maeve becoming the Singular earlier in the timeline would leave nothing for the present timeline to "reveal". Plus, the older MiB was already with an earlier Maeve when he killed her and her daughter. So unless the MiB is also in an older time line, Maeve is the present.

[RobertoCarlos]

Also everyone interacted with the sex worker host that wasn't resetting and could kill/use a gun, also the same host that bernard used to try kill ford.

They were clearly in the same timeline together.

And the spanish robber dude in the jail with MiB

[Tartys]

What if Maeve is actually a third time line... that's why Arnold needs so much control...

If you noticed that the logo is different when Maeve is around

I doubt it.
She meets Bernard "alive" and she trigger him, because of her, Bernard will force Ford to meet "Arnorld". And that is happening in the present.

We got 2 logos. The old one rappresent the past and the new one the present timeline. But because she is an old model we saw her even during the past. Infact her narrative wasn't changed since the "incident" with the MiB, that accured just few years later, after the MiB's wife suicide.
http://imgur.com/a/IfiHF

I think she is part of the new Ford narrative and he wants she bring troubles to the park. Ford knows that they want to send him into retirement and the MiB just voted for that. I think his new narrative is a plot to stop this.

[draynay]

For all the talk of Ford's photo, I found it more interesting that the photo of Billy's future wife is the same photo that made Mr. Abernathy go berserk in the first place.

So, for William to be the Man In Black, Delores would have to go off-script again 30 years later, intentionally change her outfit (for some reason), make it to the church, all without the park interfering and dragging her back to her loop.

This is the part where things are screwy for me, Hemsworth responds to Dolores being off her loop and says something about investigating it, then we get a scene of an encounter, which we presume was in the past, resolving that conflict. If that was the past, what became of present Dolores when confronted by that dilemma without William to ward off the attempt by the park to self-correct? This isn't calling off these assumptions about multiple timelines, but pointing out the holes in the narrative created by the presumed time jumps which make me curious.

I've been really impressed by the narrative so far. There's no wasted elements, and no (real) red herrings; they leave things deliberately out to avoid spoiling a reveal, but even if you're putting absences together to make a guess, the reveals are still well-crafted and done subtly enough that it's not all "A TWIST", but more of either a confirmation that "yeah, you guessed right" or "SURPRISE, fucko" kind of deal. The "What door?" moment stands out in particular; even if you'd guessed the possibility, that was such an elegant confirmation. I actually paused and rewound that scene on first viewing several times to confirm exactly how it was shot, I was so impressed.

I agree, that particular scene was the best reveal/confirmation I've seen probably since The Prestige when an exchange between Fallon and Alfred reveals they are the same person/switch identities/etc.. and then they bounce the ball between them for the last time...

[Paarthurnax]

For all the talk of Ford's photo, I found it more interesting that the photo of Billy's future wife is the same photo that made Mr. Abernathy go berserk in the first place.



This is the part where things are screwy for me, Hemsworth responds to Dolores being off her loop and says something about investigating it, then we get a scene of an encounter, which we presume was in the past, resolving that conflict. If that was the past, what became of present Dolores when confronted by that dilemma without William to ward off the attempt by the park to self-correct? This isn't calling off these assumptions about multiple timelines, but pointing out the holes in the narrative created by the presumed time jumps which make me curious.



I agree, that particular scene was the best reveal/confirmation I've seen probably since The Prestige when an exchange between Fallon and Alfred reveals they are the same person/switch identities/etc.. and then they bounce the ball between them for the last time...

Allot of the confusion in this season really is due to deceptive editing and the fact that this makes things we see from Dolores perspective as highly unreliable. I believe we are seeing things from three timelines (35 years ago, 30 years ago (William timeline), present (MiB/Maeve timeline). They are constantly jumping between these three times from scene to scene, with only subtle clues as to which one we are actually viewing.

[cubby]

For all the talk of Ford's photo, I found it more interesting that the photo of Billy's future wife is the same photo that made Mr. Abernathy go berserk in the first place.

I didn't think they were the same photos - in fact, I assumed the photo that William got was of his fiance - but we didn't actually see it. The photo Mr. Abernathy got was a picture of a train, iirc.

I agree, that particular scene was the best reveal/confirmation I've seen probably since The Prestige when an exchange between Fallon and Alfred reveals they are the same person/switch identities/etc.. and then they bounce the ball between them for the last time...

That was a terrific reveal as well. Same writer, too.

[jimboa24]

I didn't think they were the same photos - in fact, I assumed the photo that William got was of his fiance - but we didn't actually see it. The photo Mr. Abernathy got was a picture of a train, iirc.

No, they were absolutely, 100% the same photo. The pic that made Abernathy go insane was the exact same pic that Logan gave William, of a woman standing in a futuristic city setting. No question about it.

[cubby]

No, they were absolutely, 100% the same photo. The pic that made Abernathy go insane was the exact same pic that Logan gave William, of a woman standing in a futuristic city setting. No question about it.

I want to believe you, but I remember than scene very clearly - when Logan gave William the picture - and we did not see the photo clearly, at least in that scene. Was there another point in which see that photo?

I could be remembering incorrectly as well, but I'm usually pretty good with this stuff.

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Do they actually air the uncensored episodes in the US? With penises and everything.

How are you guys handling all this nudity?

We get the whole kit and kabootle. I had no idea Thandie Newton was in such great shape - she does the nude scenes very well. Otherwise, it's fine. On a fairness side, it's good that they are doing both male and female - usually female gets far more shots because of FCC rules, but this show falls under their exceptions, plus, you know, HBO - so no rules anyway.

[Endus]

On a side note, I think the use of nudity in Westworld has been fantastic. While there was some early titillation, it quickly shifted into a means to show vulnerability; a naked person on a chair being interrogated by fully-clothed analysts is decidedly not "sexy", it's just creepy and disturbing. And this was a big contibutor to how powerful Maeve seemed, when she so effortlessly took control despite her nakedness.

While it's a concept that's been used before in visual media, Westworld to me stands out as a stellar example. Unlike Game of Thrones, if you want a comparison, which is basically all titillation.

[jimboa24]

I want to believe you, but I remember than scene very clearly - when Logan gave William the picture - and we did not see the photo clearly, at least in that scene. Was there another point in which see that photo?

I could be remembering incorrectly as well, but I'm usually pretty good with this stuff.

I immediately re-watched the first episode after Logan gave William that picture, then rewatched that scene.

There is no question at all - they are the same photo. You're not remembering it clearly. I very much encourage you to rewatch episode one and then that scene if you still have any doubt. And we don't just get a brief glimpse of the pic Logan gave William - we absolutely see enough to know without a single doubt they are the same.

Like I said, if you don't believe me, rewatch the episodes.

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I agree. The nudity is really well don, and doesn't feel like it is there just to fap to.

Ehhhh...the orgy scene felt pretty damn gratuitous and only there for spank material. "Cause it's HBO!" Don't get me wrong, I'm always down to see a nice pair of titties, but if I want shameless nudity and fap material...I'll just straight-up find some porn online.

Other than that ridiculous orgy, I agree, the nudity's been otherwise pretty retrained and only present if there is a reason for it.

[Endus]

Ehhhh...the orgy scene felt pretty damn gratuitous and only there for spank material. "Cause it's HBO!" Don't get me wrong, I'm always down to see a nice pair of titties, but if I want shameless nudity and fap material...I'll just straight-up find some porn online.

Other than that ridiculous orgy, I agree, the nudity's been otherwise pretty retrained and only present if there is a reason for it.

I mean, yeah; "it's not porn, it's HBO!" and all that. But that ONE scene, and a couple brief moments in the first episode or two, are all that really stand out to me. The vast majority of the nudity in the show is used to make hosts look vulnerable, not "sexy" or "hot".

[Beazy]

I want to believe you, but I remember than scene very clearly - when Logan gave William the picture - and we did not see the photo clearly, at least in that scene. Was there another point in which see that photo?

I could be remembering incorrectly as well, but I'm usually pretty good with this stuff.

.

You're mixing it up a bit, there was a train picture, but BernArthur was using that pic, and others, to configure/test and make sure that "it doesn't look like anything to me".

But the pic that sent Abbernathy into cray mode was the pic in question.

[cubby]

I immediately re-watched the first episode after Logan gave William that picture, then rewatched that scene.

There is no question at all - they are the same photo. You're not remembering it clearly. I very much encourage you to rewatch episode one and then that scene if you still have any doubt. And we don't just get a brief glimpse of the pic Logan gave William - we absolutely see enough to know without a single doubt they are the same.

Like I said, if you don't believe me, rewatch the episodes.

Gotcha - that's better than me, just watched it the first time. And I didn't mean to sound snippy if it came across that way - apologies. Pretty awesome that it's the same photo - very interesting as well.

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You're mixing it up a bit, there was a train picture, but BernArthur was using that pic, and others, to configure/test and make sure that "it doesn't look like anything to me".

But the pic that sent Abbernathy into cray mode was the pic in question.

Shit - you're totally right. Thanks for clarifying that.