Legion - good on content, terrible on class design - yes/no

[l33t]

Agree completely and couldn't have said it better by myself.

I think that developers just don't play their own game anymore.

[Deleted]

I'm having so much trouble trying to find a class that i like. I have all ranged lvled to 110 (only play rangeds) but i can't seem to enjoy any of the specs. Every spec misses something crucial for me and i keep get that feeling the something is not quite right.

The rotations get super boring after a few hours played, the animations are all too similiar between spells. Its all shades of blue, red or shadowy. Theres is no diversity in the spells, not an interesting way for the spells to interact with each other. Most of the time the pve talents gives no option but to follow that cookie cutter spec that do more damage or is more efficient.

This is making me really sad and depresed because the legion theme is my favorite and i really want to play the xpac but the classes design are not clicking for me.

I think its time blizzard gives us a new Ranged class.

I'm not saying the xpac is bad or the class design is bad. I just think it got a bit to simplistic for me to enjoy any of them.

I also really hate this whole "deal damage, then deal damage" or in the best case "this ability increases the damage of this ability". Its pretty much the pinnacle of what you can get with a dps class.

Whats the point if a frostbolt is not very different from a fire ball or a lightning bolt? A dot is a dot. A melee hit is a melee hit no matter the animation. There lacks something important: synergy between spells, combos of spells maybe, utility.

Lightning bolt for example should add some electrical debuff on the target or hamper its chance to hit a target. Frost magic could reduce the attack speed, fire magic could explode when combined with other abilities (kaboom!). Even hunter traps are damn boring

[rda]

From a perspective of a pve player/raider:

[...]

Voted for option 3. That is not to say that everything is perfect, there are obviously things to improve, but I wouldn't call them big issues at this point.

Thanks for the post, it was very informative. I understand why you voted the way you did (completely fine with that). One thing that surprised me was that you think blood DKs have been improved, on the PTR for Legion (that is, before the addon) many people were downright outraged with them, I was looking for a tank so I remember (made a different choice), but perhaps you are talking about changes that came after.

[Septik]

Class design and class balance. They're very reluctant to do anything about the serious underperformers, be it in single target or AoE. Someone always has to be last, but it's getting to the point of ridiculousness with Ele shaman's ST and Feral's AoE, for example.

Last place should be determined by gear (luck & decision making) then by performance (skill & execution), not by the class or spec you have chosen. those should all preform equally on equal footing. since they have never achieved this, there must be a good reason why not.

[Toppy]

Only people saying class design isnt bad are the ones who are using one of the classes which weren't taken out back and shot.

Most classes got shafted hard. It was blatantly obvious this would happen back in the beta: it doesnt matter how good your content is if the core gameplay is bad, and blizzard messed up the core gameplay for the majority of players terribly. Going by the patch notes, this will only get worse with time.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...5#post43553625

Related

[Keltas]

I especially hate the whole "we wanted to move away from homogenization" thing they said they were doing, but then turned every class into the same thing.

Resource builder (does ok dmg)
Resource spender (does barely enough to justify)
Proc that doesn't affect resource (does just enough to be worth)
Sometimes a dot that never builds your resource because fuck you

Nobody has those big impact abilities or moments anymore. Remember old chaos bolt? That was fun to hit, just because it was a set 8 seconds between them didn't change that it was satisfying and allowed pre-planning. Now it hits like a wet noodle and feels like shit to press. Same with lava burst, same with aimed shot (does hit hard, but lacks the oompf feeling), same with all these type of abilities.

It feels more homogenized than ever. Which is only exasperated by the fact that literally nobody has utility, which means you bring the best class only now without any loss whatsoever.

[Archmage Alodi]

Legendary item are the worst thing after class design

[Toppy]

Legendary item are the worst thing after class design

Yeah they were immediately met with hostility and loads of good reasoning (and later feedback) about how terrible an idea they were. The dislike of legendaries was almost universal. Especcially for classes where the legends pretty much made the class work from a gameplay standpoint.

Then again blizzard has at this point admitted they did not listen to feedback, and based on the PTR still arent.

[Deleted]

Ye sure, especially ToV is superb content. It's such a big, long awaited breath of change!

[Deleted]

Class changes would be more tolerable if you could swap talents without those stupid scrolls. Honestly, what was the point behind that absolute retardness?

And when we asked for more class content, we didn't ask to drown on it within the first couple of weeks and then have it completely dry out. The devs really aren't that smart.

[klaps_05]

cant complain about anything, but all this fucking around with classes and mid-expansion overhauls. for example, the 2ndaries scaling should have been done before legion not mid-way through - its normal for everyone to be upset, and thats without even taking into consideration the major class/mechanics changes

[Deleted]

I think excessive RNG is much bigger issue than anything else.

Though some classes have been butchered. AP grind locking players to one spec doesn't help situation.

[Aggrophobic]

Yes, class design is a bit all over the place. Some, like Shadow Priest are really cool while hunters or warlocks are a bit "meh".
There are bigger issues though, like legendaries and RNG.

[Deleted]

cant complain about anything, but all this fucking around with classes and mid-expansion overhauls. for example, the 2ndaries scaling should have been done before legion not mid-way through - its normal for everyone to be upset, and thats without even taking into consideration the major class/mechanics changes

The funniest/saddest thing that literally everyone can see if a change is bad weeks or months before it goes live. Everyone -- except Blizz devs. Every. Fucking. Time.

[Machismo]

I don't have a huge problem with class design, I managed to find a class/spec that I enjoyed playing. I do think that class balance was a real problem, something they should have ironed out in the beta. The real problem comes with the legendary items, something that has been beaten to death. They also made it a pain in the ass to run with alts. Unless you were being carried by friends and guildies, playing as an alt always felt like you were way too far behind the curve. Then there's professions... they utterly destroyed them. Unless someone was an herbalist/alchemist, they had almost nothing to look forward to regarding professions. There was absolutely no excuse for how badly they botched it.

[Deleted]

Bad on content, terrible on class design, would be a better description.

[tikcol]

Legion is terrible.

[Shibito]

What sums it up is buhu my class isnt top dps therefore bad class design.

[clevin]

The problem really lies with this - they redo classes every expansion. All the learning about balancing that they did in MoP? Gone come WoD. WoD's knowledge? Irrelevant in Legion. I get that being totally static would be boring, but 1) you'll get new talents as you level and 2) If your class (and spec) played well before why would you want to totally change?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I think the problem is a design that isn't friendly to change combined with many changes happening. Like AP and Weapons are a huge investment and you choose that investment based on the details of the times. But these details change due to things outside your power you shouldn't be punished. Which feels like it's happening to a lot of people in 7.1.5.

A simple fix would be a free and 100% refund of AP when they make big changes. They did something similar in classic with talents when they shifted things around. Only makes sense to me to do that here.