How're is Havoc looking in 7.1.5?

[Casban]

Because we don't give a fuck about Meta leech, not while all of our damage is being hit, something that is far more important than our survival.

- Demon Speed (resets Fel Rush charges) got removed, without compensation. That alone impacts momentum a lot.
- 5% crit nerf. Crit is by far the most important stat for DHs.
- Demon Blades nerf, 75% -> 65% chance. More RNG in Fury generation, something all DHs love (PS: not).
- AotHG being gutted. We all agree it was OP as fuck on live, but it was the only thing keeping DH alive in ST. We asked for a nerf and a baseline buff... we got nerfed in both sides.

The 5% crit nerf is to all leather wearing classes. Yes it's your best stat now, but consider they're trying to push your towards favouring Haste more?
With the advent of higher tier gear, bigger iLvl means better stats on items. That means higher haste which equates to more auto attacks which means 75% is alot when you're attacking that much faster. The 10% nerf is obviously balance for that future stat change.

Remember playing prior to Legion with all the class changes? Remember how certain classes were broken because of their stats at the time? Those same classes are not king anymore, not like people "predicted" anyways. These are all balance changes for the future, not to fuck you over now.

[Messij]

So with full T19, after farming nighthold during 3 month we'll have as much crit and fury generation as now we have in live ?
How the FUCK is this a good thing ?

[Deleted]

First Blood Reduces the Fury cost of Blade Dance by 20 and increases its damage to [ 3.000 * 100% of weapon damage + 6.000 [ 9.000 * 96% of weapon damage + 3.000 * 288% of weapon damage ] against the first target struck. Havoc Demon Hunter - Level 102 Talent.

This is a pretty big increase, fury to damage ratio will be pretty big, is this a big enough increase to warrant it being favourable for ST ?

[Sarange]

I've played a shaman the majority of wow - I know how it feels to be the bottom dps class. With that said, they are FAR more likely to look at out dps underperforming if we don't have a legendary propping us up. That's undeniable (And honestly every single ring defender has sounded like they have the ring and dont want their dps nerfed so far)

Not really. Most says they dont want to be fury starved like before they got it. Most would rather have the ring nerfed, but with a buffed baseline fury gen.

[Shalakittena]

The 5% crit nerf is to all leather wearing classes. Yes it's your best stat now, but consider they're trying to push your towards favouring Haste more?
With the advent of higher tier gear, bigger iLvl means better stats on items. That means higher haste which equates to more auto attacks which means 75% is alot when you're attacking that much faster. The 10% nerf is obviously balance for that future stat change.

Remember playing prior to Legion with all the class changes? Remember how certain classes were broken because of their stats at the time? Those same classes are not king anymore, not like people "predicted" anyways. These are all balance changes for the future, not to fuck you over now.

The difference between a 890 chest piece and a 910 chest piece is 129 total secondary stats. Mythic Nighthold gear at the moment is 905 base. People need to stop thinking that our secondaries are going to shoot way up with gear. It'll go up for sure but not by much. This is a deliberate design decision by Blizzard this expansion to have secondary stats not scale very well with ilvl so that the power level curve was flatter and classes didn't feel like crap at the beginning.

[Deix-EU]

First Blood Reduces the Fury cost of Blade Dance by 20 and increases its damage to [ 3.000 * 100% of weapon damage + 6.000 [ 9.000 * 96% of weapon damage + 3.000 * 288% of weapon damage ] against the first target struck. Havoc Demon Hunter - Level 102 Talent.

This is a pretty big increase, fury to damage ratio will be pretty big, is this a big enough increase to warrant it being favourable for ST ?

3.000 * 100% of weapon damage + 6.000 * 96% of weapon damage + 3.000 * 288% = 3000 * (100 + 192 + 288) = 3000 * 580
9.000 * 96% of weapon damage + 3.000 * 288% of weapon damage = 3000 * (288 + 288) = 3000 * 576

This is (580/576 -1) * 100 ~= 0.7% nerf over previous PTR patch. I didn't take account of a part at first sigh too. It hurts I know. Still a big up over live though.

[Casban]

The difference between a 890 chest piece and a 910 chest piece is 129 total secondary stats. Mythic Nighthold gear at the moment is 905 base. People need to stop thinking that our secondaries are going to shoot way up with gear. It'll go up for sure but not by much. This is a deliberate design decision by Blizzard this expansion to have secondary stats not scale very well with ilvl so that the power level curve was flatter and classes didn't feel like crap at the beginning.

That's one piece of gear, out of like 20. It adds up.

[Shalakittena]

That's one piece of gear, out of like 20. It adds up.

No, it really doesn't. I intentionally chose chestpiece because it is one of the slots with the highest amount of secondaries. For example, the difference between 890 and 910 wrists is a measly 66 total secondary stats.

Even assuming every piece would give you 129 more secondary stats, you have 13 slots not including trinkets and counting the MH and OH weapon together. That's 1677 total secondary stats going up 20 ilvls. If that is somehow all in crit, that's 4.8% crit rating which is still more than the 5% we would lose.

Nerfing Demon Blades proc chance by 10% isn't going to be fixed by our haste magically going up 15% in the next tier. One could argue that our tier bonuses will improve our fury gen so it'll be ok, but it'd be a stupid argument. Our tier bonuses are supposed to be bonuses, we shouldn't have to obtain them just to have the same amount of fury that we do currently. If it is such a big issue in Blizzard's eyes, then they should adjust the set bonus.

This is all moot anyway because DH isn't in a position where it needs to be toned down especially when it comes to single-target. We don't even scale as well as say rogues.

[Casban]

No, it really doesn't. I intentionally chose chestpiece because it is one of the slots with the highest amount of secondaries. For example, the difference between 890 and 910 wrists is a measly 66 total secondary stats.

Even assuming every piece would give you 129 more secondary stats, you have 13 slots not including trinkets and counting the MH and OH weapon together. That's 1677 total secondary stats going up 20 ilvls. If that is somehow all in crit, that's 4.8% crit rating which is still more than the 5% we would lose.

Nerfing Demon Blades proc chance by 10% isn't going to be fixed by our haste magically going up 15% in the next tier. One could argue that our tier bonuses will improve our fury gen so it'll be ok, but it'd be a stupid argument. Our tier bonuses are supposed to be bonuses, we shouldn't have to obtain them just to have the same amount of fury that we do currently. If it is such a big issue in Blizzard's eyes, then they should adjust the set bonus.

This is all moot anyway because DH isn't in a position where it needs to be toned down especially when it comes to single-target. We don't even scale as well as say rogues.

You're aware there's a future after the Nighthold right? I do not think Blizzard would nerf Blades from 65% to 55% later on just because the gear got better yet again. I would be raging up there with you guys because it would be illogical.

I'm just curious, have you thought out how the game would develop if they didn't make these recent changes and just went ahead with what they had planned for secondary stats and tier bonuses? Have you considered things would be going haywire and certain classes or specs would be out of control?

[Bad Management]

I already re-rolled away from Shadow Priest (Can't stand S2M) because I knew it was gonna be a Jo-Jo spec.
Regretting picking DH now though.

If the "Demonic" build becomes the new Meta for ST(seems to be the way Blizzard is headed), then I don't think I'll raid anymore.
That build is the most cancer BS I've ever played, would literally rather listen to Nickelback for 24 hours straight.

[Shalakittena]

You're aware there's a future after the Nighthold right? I do not think Blizzard would nerf Blades from 65% to 55% later on just because the gear got better yet again. I would be raging up there with you guys because it would be illogical.

I'm just curious, have you thought out how the game would develop if they didn't make these recent changes and just went ahead with what they had planned for secondary stats and tier bonuses? Have you considered things would be going haywire and certain classes or specs would be out of control?

You realize there will also be future balance patches right? Yes I have thought about our scaling and guess what, 75% Demon Blades would be perfectly fine. We don't scale as well as some other classes. If you think a 65% Demon Blades is a good thing for the class, I really don't know what to tell you. Especially since it would be better if they wanted to nerf it to nerf the fury per proc instead of making players more at the mercy of rng. Also, I would hope that I understand the class reasonably well.

[Pigglix]

After the DB nerf, how much of a dps gain is vs Prepared?

-pray that its not big enough cuz cant wait to go back to demon's bite-

[Tumi]

The blur nerf just feels so bad Even if you're playing nemesis , the fury gain is so good

[Tobedeleted123]

The blur nerf just feels so bad Even if you're playing nemesis , the fury gain is so good

Actually the change is good, we finally can use our defensive for, you know, defense. The problem is, they should have compensated for it and they didn't. An ability on 1min cd that simply resets our fel rush stacks would be great.

[ravell]

Do we have some numbers of our ST Dps comparing Live Standard Build x PTR Standard Build x PTR Demonic Build?

[BlingtiN]

i didnt test PTR, but in wowhead, still say the ring gives you 1-12 with demon blades, someone can confirm this? maybe a tooltip error or something?

[aGit]

It probably accounts for the increasing fury gains from the tier set in Nighthold. Seriously it would've been out of control without any kind of nerf, constant 100% fury-cap.

just makes me wonder, how did this come as a surprise for them? they knew what the set bonus was before launch, they then nerfed it in half, now they further nerf the fury gain. What is the beta for exactly if you have to hammer classes down in the middle of the expansion? This, if anything is what is putting peoples interest down. Constant fucking changes, nerfs and buffs and nerfs again. You never know if you're safe even in the middle of progression.

[jayinjersey]

So if we can take anything out of the Warlock blue post...


They probably know there is an issue...can't figure out a way to fix the issue...and as they have now admitted, don't want to acknowledge they will have the issue go live.



Joy.

"Switch to the new class they said...you'll get the attention being the new kid on the block they said..."

[Krille]

So if we can take anything out of the Warlock blue post...


They probably know there is an issue...can't figure out a way to fix the issue...and as they have now admitted, don't want to acknowledge they will have the issue go live.



Joy.

"Switch to the new class they said...you'll get the attention being the new kid on the block they said..."

It's the same with shadow priests, they are still not seeing any substantial nerfs.