7.1.5: Fire completely wrecked

[Armourboy]

Definitely not true, but keep putting feelings ahead of math if you want.

As things stand currently it hasn't changed much. I was lucky enough when I did my character copy to have a couple of high ilevel pieces in my bag than what I have equipped to see the difference.

1. ) Equipped the legendary boots, they were 50 item levels higher than my current boots. I lost somewhere around 2% crit changing them. It seems to be a decent DPS gain, which honestly it should be with that much difference.

2.) I had a cloak that was 10 ilevels higher, still had crit on it but not optimal. With the boots on it cost me roughly another 1% crit dropping me to 47%. It was a DPS loss.

3.) Tried a couple of different trinket combos. One with crit but a lower ilevel ( was using an 850 plague swarm to start) and it was a DPS loss, so the extra crit didn't overcome the power of the haste + proc. Second try was an 860 starlight, so 10 ilevel difference, but mastery instead of haste, it was also a DPS loss which I figured it would because it is currently.

So basically atm on PTR we are still roughly where we are at on live, however in extreme cases ( I'm going to guess 20+ ilevel) it may be better to go with the higher ilevel because Int and Crit probably are closer, especially in cases where that piece still has Crit on it. Trinkets as always are an outlier. I'm guessing rings and necks you would still go with optimal over ilevel because they do not have Int on them to make up the difference.

Obviously this is just what I have seen in my brief testing, I am in no claiming it is an indication of what the actual results are or will be.

[Rylalai]

Imagine a Fire Mage with 50% base crit chance, and 50% crit chance every time Fireball doesn't crit. Is Crit still the best stat on gear?

The answer is no, it's not.

Good job for stating the obvious. :-)

[Segus1992]

Good job for stating the obvious. :-)

No matter what Blizzard does Crit will always be by far the best stat for Fire as long as Heating Up / Hotstreak, Critical Mass passives are there

Is what I originally replied to. Yes it's obvious, but clearly not to everyone. Including those that try to argue against the obvious for some reason?

[Rylalai]

Is what I originally replied to. Yes it's obvious, but clearly not to everyone. Including those that try to argue against the obvious for some reason?

The question is, what WILL they do. Decreasing the base crit like they did in the latest PTR build is clearly not the right way to decrease the value of crit. Let's just hope they won't fuck it up.

[Segus1992]

As things stand currently it hasn't changed much. I was lucky enough when I did my character copy to have a couple of high ilevel pieces in my bag than what I have equipped to see the difference.

1. ) Equipped the legendary boots, they were 50 item levels higher than my current boots. I lost somewhere around 2% crit changing them. It seems to be a decent DPS gain, which honestly it should be with that much difference.

2.) I had a cloak that was 10 ilevels higher, still had crit on it but not optimal. With the boots on it cost me roughly another 1% crit dropping me to 47%. It was a DPS loss.

3.) Tried a couple of different trinket combos. One with crit but a lower ilevel ( was using an 850 plague swarm to start) and it was a DPS loss, so the extra crit didn't overcome the power of the haste + proc. Second try was an 860 starlight, so 10 ilevel difference, but mastery instead of haste, it was also a DPS loss which I figured it would because it is currently.

So basically atm on PTR we are still roughly where we are at on live, however in extreme cases ( I'm going to guess 20+ ilevel) it may be better to go with the higher ilevel because Int and Crit probably are closer, especially in cases where that piece still has Crit on it. Trinkets as always are an outlier. I'm guessing rings and necks you would still go with optimal over ilevel because they do not have Int on them to make up the difference.

Obviously this is just what I have seen in my brief testing, I am in no claiming it is an indication of what the actual results are or will be.

Crit is not likely to drop below #1 as that isn't the intent. It's intended to be closer to the others to avoid cases where 20-30 ilvls on gear with main stat isn't an upgrade. It's not hard to make Crit less valuable than Haste or Mastery, mathematically.

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The question is, what WILL they do. Decreasing the base crit like they did in the latest PTR build is clearly not the right way to decrease the value of crit. Let's just hope they won't fuck it up.

Unless I've missed something, the decrease of base crit in this build came from the much higher increase in base crit from the previous build. They removed the 1.1x scaling of crit on gear, and added base crit. Did something else happen?

[Armourboy]

Crit is not likely to drop below #1 as that isn't the intent. It's intended to be closer to the others to avoid cases where 20-30 ilvls on gear with main stat isn't an upgrade. It's not hard to make Crit less valuable than Haste or Mastery, mathematically.

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Unless I've missed something, the decrease of base crit in this build came from the much higher increase in base crit from the previous build. They removed the 1.1x scaling of crit on gear, and added base crit. Did something else happen?

As far as I know they didn't increase base crit, or if they did not enough to matter. My fire mage is 862 ilevel, and dropped 13% Crit on PTR

[Rylalai]

Unless I've missed something, the decrease of base crit in this build came from the much higher increase in base crit from the previous build. They removed the 1.1x scaling of crit on gear, and added base crit. Did something else happen?

They decreased base crit from 15% to 10% and it seems like they decrease the conversion ratio of crit rating to % crit as it seems. I did not have time to check the latest PTR build yet, so don't take my word for it.

[Segus1992]

They decreased base crit from 15% to 10% and it seems like they decrease the conversion ratio of crit rating to % crit as it seems. I did not have time to check the latest PTR build yet, so don't take my word for it.

Pretty sure that's Critical Mass, that used to be "increases crit from gear by a multiplier of 1.1" and became "15% crit chance" in the initial 7.1.5 build, unless I missed something.

The purpose was to reduce the value of crit on gear. Which it did. Also to reduce Fire Mage scaling. Which it also did.

[Rylalai]

Pretty sure that's Critical Mass, that used to be "increases crit from gear by a multiplier of 1.1" and became "15% crit chance" in the initial 7.1.5 build, unless I missed something.

The purpose was to reduce the value of crit on gear. Which it did. Also to reduce Fire Mage scaling. Which it also did.

But does an overall decrease of crit not increase the stat weight of crit because we're so reliant on it? How will reducing crit by 12% (iL 877) lead to a devaluation of crit overall? Because playing with <60% crit is not fun at all in the current build.

Is the other way around not better? Increase base crit and decrease crit gain from gear but also increase damage gain from other secondary stats and SP?

Edit: It's just necessary to find the "sweet spot" where more spell damage weights more than higher crit. Aka to introduce a crit soft-cap.

[Deix-EU]

We are worrying about our own class. Sure a lot of specs are getting nerfed but with fire they kinda went too far. It's not going to be as much fun, and number wise it's still really bad.

Like rich men of this world do care about their own fortune yeah.
Perversion.

[Segus1992]

But does an overall decrease of crit not increase the stat weight of crit because we're so reliant on it? How will reducing crit by 12% (iL 877) lead to a devaluation of crit overall? Because playing with <60% crit is not fun at all in the current build.

Is the other way around not better? Increase base crit and decrease crit gain from gear but also increase damage gain from other secondary stats and SP?

Edit: It's just necessary to find the "sweet spot" where more spell damage weights more than higher crit. Aka to introduce a crit soft-cap.

I'm not 100% sure I know all the changes that happened, but if it was JUST (as far as pure crit goes) that Critical Mass went from all crit on gear being multiplied by 1.1 to a base crit chance, that means you get less out of crit AND have higher base crit (like you suggest). Later nerfing that means they thought the crit chance was just too high or they have something else in mind.

Do remember that the first tier *isn't even over yet* and we've got people with 60%+ crit chance. How will (would) it look in tier 3?

[Rylalai]

I'm not 100% sure I know all the changes that happened, but if it was JUST (as far as pure crit goes) that Critical Mass went from all crit on gear being multiplied by 1.1 to a base crit chance, that means you get less out of crit AND have higher base crit (like you suggest). Later nerfing that means they thought the crit chance was just too high or they have something else in mind.

Do remember that the first tier *isn't even over yet* and we've got people with 60%+ crit chance. How will (would) it look in tier 3?

It's on the front page now. They rescaled the secondary ratings. Basicly nerfing all of them. (Crit Rating / % Crit up from 350 to 400)

Yeah ofc you're right that we're still in the middle of tier 1 and some fire mages with best in slot gear run around with >70% crit. Of course this is just insane. What should I say, being above 60% crit just makes fire so much smoother to play. Scaling this down to ~50% will introduce a lot of issues, not only related to gameplay fun. With the current loss of Ice Floes and the increasing need to cast fire balls this will just be an additional nerf to fire mage mobility. It also further increases the already introduced nerf to PI in the current PTR build.

Honestly I don't know if Blizzard is able to re-balance fire if they want to change so many things in just one minor patch a couple of months into a new expansion.

[D3athsting]

Good news everyone

* Critical Strike - Now requires 400 rating per 1% Critical Strike, up from 350

This applies to all classes/specs but it'still another kick in the nuts

Rip fire mage

[Deleted]

That explains a lot, on ptr I've dropped 130k dps from live (the last build was around -60k), I didn't understand why I was doing so shitty with latest changes.

[D3athsting]

If ptr fire mage goes live fire will be dead and buried in a week

[antelope591]

Fire doesnt work at all with less than 50% crit which seems to be the new max. You have to get to like 60% to see the true benefit. So yeah the spec is pretty much dead if this stays. At least I have good frost gear/legs but those that don't are screwed.

Blizz "we wont make huge changes with AP". Goes and kills a spec in not even a major patch LOL

[Frost1129]

Fire doesnt work at all with less than 50% crit which seems to be the new max. You have to get to like 60% to see the true benefit. So yeah the spec is pretty much dead if this stays. At least I have good frost gear/legs but those that don't are screwed.

Blizz "we wont make huge changes with AP". Goes and kills a spec in not even a major patch LOL

Fire crit scaling is pretty much linear between 50 and 60%, what do you think is changing in that range to cause fire to "turn on"?.

[deadman1]

Fire crit scaling is pretty much linear between 50 and 60%, what do you think is changing in that range to cause fire to "turn on"?.

I think hes just talking about the literal 10% higher chance to get crits.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Pretty sure that's Critical Mass, that used to be "increases crit from gear by a multiplier of 1.1" and became "15% crit chance" in the initial 7.1.5 build, unless I missed something.

you missed molten armor being pruned from the game to make way for our lovely and completely useless class fantasy barriers

we go from having 20% passive crit + 1.1 crit multiplier on live, to 15% passive crit + 1.1 crit multiplier last ptr patch, to 10% passive crit + 1.1 crit multiplier + lower crit scaling from gear right now on the current ptr patch

[antelope591]

Fire crit scaling is pretty much linear between 50 and 60%, what do you think is changing in that range to cause fire to "turn on"?.

Have u played fire with less than 50% crit? The spec is literal shit with crit in the 40's. As in barely worth playing for questing much less serious content.