It seems WoD didn't do that bad

[Kolvarg]

Lol, try harder. Progression guilds having an easier time with bosses =/= Mythic raids being easier than LFR. EN is an entry raid, but look at Mythic Helya...

Even then, I'm not so sure Mythic EN is that easy. I haven't tried it myself, and obviously there wasn't as much time yet for EN, but in my personal experience I've been seeing friends' guilds that in WoD cleared most Mythic bosses, including eventually full clear on HFC, struggling a LOT in EN (ie stuck on 1/7 or 2/7).

[Donald Hellscream]

It wasn't all bad but it was overall quite the let down.

[Scottyjscizzle]

I can only hope that Blizzard decides to start working on the next expansion and ditch the plans with Tomb of Sargeras and Argus patch. Legion was a mistake (mainly due to the legendary system).

the legendary system is only a failure if you are Ain a mythic raid team were the extra dps will actually matter Ba tryhard who cries if they aren't top of the meters.

[Eazy]

I'm starting to think that WoD was better than Legion... from class perspective.

The Lore and raids are much better in Legion, but... that's all?

[xanzul]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's why the number of people who PVP shrunk to about half of what it was in *WoD* (the ultimate floor).

The exact numbers:

3v3 ladder in Legion season 1 is 64% that of WoD season 3 on EU, 56% on US.
RBG ladder in Legion season 1 is 43% that of WoD season 3 on EU, 37% on US.

Good. The pvp community in this game has contributed nothing but toxic behavior.

[Azarak]

Delusional for having a different opinion?

I really enjoyed WoD. I only really enjoy raids, and dont want to commit 40 hours a week to playing, so in legion im barely able to keep up a single character/spec, and then getting a shit legendary just ruined the whole experience for me.

In wod i could gear up exclusively through raiding and compete with minimal time investment. I know this is an MMORPG and that time=ability but i don't have to like that.

HFC was a truly amazing raid, with interesting bosses and a perfect difficulty curve (bar maybe gorefiend being a bit out of place). Can't say the same for anything in legion so far.

Delusional for not noticing the massive overall success of Legion so far. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's worse than WoD (which is fucking hilarious to even say).

P.S. no SHIT HFC was better than EN, it's the fucking last tier endgame raid of WoD, while Nightmare is only the first raid of TIER 1. Not even the end of tier one, the FIRST raid. There is so much better raid content planned it's hilarious. EN is basically highmaul, which wasn't that cool either, but of course not, because it's the first raid...

[Deleted]

Really? Because bgs were bad and had horrific wait times for horde players. Why do you think they changed the racial if it was no big deal? Pvp was a stun lock mess and being able to get out of it was the whole reason people switched.
How was ashran? People loved that? It was buggy as hell at launch?

You are right there wasn't any complaints about pvp in wod no none at all

Dont't think anyone said there wasn't.

[TickTickTick]

When will people stop comparing 2 years lasting expansion to a 3 months lasting expansion? Whats the point in that?
Compare WoD to all the past expansions that you will, but its counterlogic to compare something that's finished to something that's just barely begun.

People, please. Stop the circlejerk. I know hating on blizz is the new old rage on this forums, but at least use some brain cells.

[Deleted]

I liked WoD. Cry on bitchez!

No surprise. It had a Blizzard logo on the box.

[Deleted]

I think WoD had better Class game play for quite a few classes. The prune was necessary but way too much was taken from classes.

[Usernameforforums]

I liked WoD. Cry on bitchez!

Wod had good raids but thats about it. Dont get me wrong i liked wod too but anything other than raiding was meh.

[Deleted]

I just read this

Broken Isles FEELS like by far the largest of any zone I've ever been in

Dude, it's the size of the barrens.

[Deleted]

maybe slightly off topic, but i'll admit to actually liking legion. until the WQ became so repetative & boring that i just didnt want to log on anymore.
im not blaming the game 100% as i no longer wanted to raid & even doing mythic dungeons just didnt appeal.
imo getting attuned to kara wasnt a great idea as youre being forced to do more content, just to do another instance.
saying that, im probably over playing wow. although i have said that a few times before & come back, so who knows.

[McNeil]

While Legion is much better than WoD, it brought some of its bad features while also adding some new ones. After so many expansions we're still following the same old formula for most of the part, rushing to max level with easy and fast paced quests and basically steamrolling dungeons. And once we reach the endgame its just back to doing dailies and raiding, we've done that so much already that people will get bored very fast. Atleast they made running dungeons matter a lot more, unlike WoD which became obsolete after a few runs. The story is also better, but nothing special or even worth paying much attention to.

Whats really killing it is how they made leveling alts unfriendly, and that while they put so much resources into making some cool class hall experiences. And the grindyness is just to much, this is not the kind of fun people want in 2016. Even if Blizzard doesn't show subs, it seems very much safe to say that its back to WoD numbers, between 5-6 million or so. Not that its low or anything, but if the trend continues.... well, as I said a year earlier, WoW cannot survive ''another WoD''...

[IsaacHawke]

You might have actually hit the nail on the head right here.

True
But that doesn't explain the unsub tide of Cata or obvious failed/broken designs that left unchanged since the launch of Legion.

Old days will never come back
But that's not the reason, or excuse making tommorow worse and worse

[Akka]

No surprise. It had a Blizzard logo on the box.

Headshot !
And so, so true ^^

[IceMan1763]

In my opinion, most of the sub losses throughout the years can be attributed to Blizzard simply not realizing that long content droughts are a real playerbase killer. If you look at the number of raid bosses, dungeons, raids, etc. through the TBC - Wrath time era... the productivity of the Blizzard dev team is striking compared to the current era. For some reason, the devs back then were either just far more productive or the team better understood where their "bread is buttered" when it comes to creating ample and popular content. I'm not saying everything else that's come along is bad (pet battles, etc.), but when it comes at the cost of less end game content, poor class design, and PVP tuning then it becomes a VERY big problem. They always try to claim it's not the same people working in different areas... fine... then hire more people to work in the important areas and perhaps lose a few people who aren't working on the "bread and butter" content or move them to a different team.

I think WOD took a huge hit for a couple reasons in particular... one is the stupid fight Blizzard picked over flying. Another is the 7.1 patch which really could be rolled into my above point... it was just a joke of a patch as far as actual content goes and created a content drought.

Legion just plain doesn't have a lot of content... it has systems that force you to repeat the little content that is there. The content could maybe be enough... if Blizzard wouldn't try so damn hard to put in systems that they think will keep sub numbers up. The way to keep sub numbers up is to focus on interesting class designs and couple that with ample and high quality end game content. It's ok if there's some repetition in that content... there always has been. That's also why it's important to keep content patches coming on a regular basis.

[Kolvarg]

Or maybe, just maybe, a lot of players nowdays (that games in general and especially multiplayer games are a lot more common and high-polish than in 2004~2008) are not interested in staying months on end in the same game repeating the same content for slightly better gear, and would rather subscribe to check the new content and then unsubscribe to go play or do other things?

Something cool that just showed up on my feed that kind of relates to this:
38% of all Steam games were released in 2016

Now, granted, Steam doesn't represent the entirety of PC gaming, but is defenitely the biggest digital PC game seller, and has been for a long while. And you can see how great a difference there is in offer since 2004~2008 to nowadays.

[Lady Dragonheart]

I liked WoD, overall, but I know that I was one of the minority. :|

[Wingspan]

Before you raise your pitchforks and torches...

I think there will always be a decent cyclical component to subs. That said, I think they could "flatten the hills" a lot by presenting a better game than they have in the last couple of expansions. I guess it is possible however that they simply make SO MUCH money on initial expansion sales that they don't care much about getting some consistency in the subs.


Funny thing is, most people do it backwards (in my opinion). If you already know you are unlikely to stay for a whole expansion, and many people do, then you may as well wait until near the END of the expansion to start playing (not the beginning).

The beginning is always designed to hold you back and slow you down with any number of grinds and attunements... where the end is always designed to push you forward and shower you with rewards (with the main goal of convincing you want you to shell out money for the next expansion).