7.1.5 Ptr Changes

[Demonidze]

iirc the only expansion where mages werent imba every single time was WotLK.. and it was the greatest expansion ever! coincidence?

[Lucrece]

To be fair, this isn't a fault of Mage players. They did absolutely have some gripes such as Frost being clunky, Arcane being gimmicky, and Fire getting decimate by the nerf bat.

The issue is more Blizzard doesn't seem like they have a clue what direction to take classes in and is throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks, then blaming us or feigning ignorance.

Mionelol (the guy you probably know who's a mythic raider and did the blood DK solos of raid bosses) pretty much echoed this sentiment, especially when it came to tank balance when it took them so long to address vengeance demonhunter tanks and brewmasters while Celestalon (or Celestashit as Mionelol prefers to call him) was shown to main a Guardian druid this xpac.

In a way I feel fire mages are eating crow the same way unholy DK's did. They flooded the OP spec at release and then lost their shit when all the AP they spent on a fotm spec ended with them going down the rankings.

The whole artifact system makes it really difficult for developers to even make honest balance attempts because of the massive time sinks and legendary farming tied to a spec.

If legendaries weren't a casino slot system and artifact power didn't take so long in ramp up to fill up weapons (or if AP was shared among them), a lot less mages and hunters would be salty.

This xpac they just evolved the concept they've been developing since MoP, which is expansion long character development outside raid drops to keep the player chasing that power increase.

By now implementing the neverending AP farm alongside an RNG system for large power spikes in the form of legendaries, they've massively lengthened the amount of players on the treadmill.

[BannedForViews]

They will not fix it if we continue to suffer and give them constructive feedback either.

Of this I am very aware. In their minds they do not make mistakes and therefore no one need suffer from them. The customer is always wrong until such a time that blizzard adopts the customers viewpoint. Then the customers point only begins to become valid and the issue is considered a new one, so we are yet again forced to wait.

[Gaidax]

Mionelol (the guy you probably know who's a mythic raider and did the blood DK solos of raid bosses) pretty much echoed this sentiment, especially when it came to tank balance when it took them so long to address vengeance demonhunter tanks and brewmasters while Celestalon (or Celestashit as Mionelol prefers to call him) was shown to main a Guardian druid this xpac.

I personally had a couple of hours of M+ with Celestalon as Brewmaster Monk in Beta. He did a fine job too there.

So lay off the BS, at the very least he played Brewmaster Monk for some time, considering gear and experience he showed using it in M+.

[Lucrece]

I personally had a couple of hours of M+ with Celestalon as Brewmaster Monk in Beta. He did a fine job too there.

So lay off the BS, at the very least he played Brewmaster Monk for some time, considering gear and experience he showed using it in M+.

If you think Mionelol is lying about Celestalon maining guardian druid even though he linked his live character page in the demonhunter forums, feel free to take it up with him.

[Gaidax]

If you think Mionelol is lying about Celestalon maining guardian druid even though he linked his character page in the demonhunter forums, feel free to take it up with him.

I am telling you what I know based on experiencing this firsthand in beta, I could not care less what some e-personality is saying, I have clear knowledge of the fact Celestalon played Brewmaster Monk in Legion Beta because I was in a bloody M+ dungeons he ran as a Brewmaster Monk tank.

As such, implying Celestalon has no idea about Brewmaster Monk gameplay is laughable, because he in fact did play it when I was with him.

Is that clear enough?

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As a matter of fact here is a proof:

http://imgur.com/a/8cjGo


This is a particularly funny screenie that surely will make some here jump into murderous rage:

[Bullettime]

Celestalon actually isn't a bad player and is pretty solid and knowledgeable about the classes he plays. The concern I've always had with him, as a former Hunter who used to have back and forths with him constantly on Twitter and development forums, is that he just seems clueless about the things he doesn't play. He's the type of player who can absolutely pick up a class, study it, learn it, and even balance it, but he's not someone who can look at the design of something and decipher intent or see inherent flaws without playing it extensively himself, even if they're extremely apparent.

This leads to a lot of "what the fuck did he say?" Tweets he's made in the past like his famous Multi-Shot comment.

But let's not pin the blame solely on one developer. Issues with design and flinging shit at the wall is more of a systemic issue for multiple expansions now.

[Lucrece]

Nobody said Celestalon couldn't play a Brewmaster, that's just Gaidax conjuring up words to put in someone's mouth. What Mionelol (who isn't just an e-personality, but an accomplished mythic raider) meant is that Celestalon's attention is focused on classes he plays more. Which isn't outlandish. When you main a class, that class's issues tend to be more apparent to you than a class you play on the side for a couple of hours.

Binkenstein, the elemental shaman theorycrafter, had back and forths with him where he had to beat him over the head with his theorycraft blogs and spreadsheets for Celestalon to admit two months after release what ele shamans were saying in beta about the value of mastery. And sure enough they hotfixed some mastery buff when Celestalon contacted Binkenstein about the spreadsheet and Binkenstein clarified some questions he had about the data.

The point is that hotfix to mastery, which didn't even bring it up to par, should have happened much earlier than 2 months after release. They had an entire year of beta with the same feedback from Binkenstein over mastery's self-defeating mechanisms with the elemental shaman. They had months of beta with people pointing out the diminishing value of earth shock (which is why they buffed it as of late and especially in 7.1.5).

Issues they're having to react to now with a wider playerbase because they didn't absorb the feedback from mythic raiders in alpha for some classes.

The secondary stat imbalance was blatantly apparent since closed beta, at least for demonology warlocks and fire mages. They were going to become issues, and they let it go live where now it's much harder to address because of all these systems people are invested into, and causing change even if for the better of the game will piss people off on a larger scale rather than if they had nipped it in the bud in beta when less people had stacked gear with those secondaries and sold/DE'd higher ilv gear with the wrong secondaries that might now become important.

[Bullettime]

Nobody said Celestalon couldn't play a Brewmaster, that's just Gaidax conjuring up words for someone else. What Mionelol meant is that Celestalon's attention is focused on classes he plays more. Which isn't outlandish. When you main a class, that class's issues tend to be more apparent to you than a class you play on the side for a couple of hours.

To be fair, that's also kind of expected and is one of the reason why things should be, or are, done in larger teams. Multiple opinions, multiple backgrounds, multiple classes.

I'd argue one of the biggest issues with classes, at least for Warlocks and being a bit tin foily, is what Xelnath pointed out during his tantrum; there's not enough variety of players on the team. This makes it hard push for changes, or get good changes for say Warlocks, when there's practically no one on the balance committee to play them enough to share the sentiment.

[Lucrece]

To be fair, that's also kind of expected and is one of the reason why things should be, or are, done in larger teams. Multiple opinions, multiple backgrounds, multiple classes.

I'd argue one of the biggest issues with classes, at least for Warlocks and being a bit tin foily, is what Xelnath pointed out during his tantrum; there's not enough variety of players on the team. This makes it hard push for changes, or get good changes for say Warlocks, when there's practically no one on the balance committee to play them enough to share the sentiment.

Mionelol pointed that out. He's spent plenty of time with devs and debated with them on discord and it became apparent to him that representation was insufficient for some classes.

Case in point, were more warlocks dev in, would they have been as willing to buy into the idea of bringing Life Tap back like it has in Legion? Destro at least has the luxury of Reverse Entropy, but come 7.1.5 that too is gone, and with their buffing of Empowered Life Tap I predict quite a few unhappy warlocks.

[Gaidax]

Nobody said Celestalon couldn't play a Brewmaster, that's just Gaidax conjuring up words to put in someone's mouth. What Mionelol (who isn't just an e-personality, but an accomplished mythic raider) meant is that Celestalon's attention is focused on classes he plays more. Which isn't outlandish. When you main a class, that class's issues tend to be more apparent to you than a class you play on the side for a couple of hours.

It was your silly, thinly veiled claim that apparently Celestalon does not give a shit about Brewmasters because he mains Guardian, which is amusing because he in fact did play Brewmaster, as I clearly showed you.

The bullshit people spread here about what devs know and don't know or play and don't play has to stop and this was a perfect opportunity to put you back in your place - you know nothing, so don't go ahead and parrot some wild crap and try to claim it's some gospel truth because your e-idol said so.

Case in point - I do not care who Mionelol is, but if he claims that Celestalon does not know anything about Brewmasters, or in fact, that because Celestalon mains Guardian then it's the only thing he knows/cares about, then he is less smart than you make him out to be.

You all just sit here and spread pure speculation based on what you think is the truth and try to present it as a fact, while in reality you have no clue.

[Burnstien]

patch is still weeks away idk why people get so bent out of shape like their will be lot more changes before it goes live, develop some patience have mercy.

[Hyrja]

patch is still weeks away idk why people get so bent out of shape like their will be lot more changes before it goes live, develop some patience have mercy.

First build usually has the most mechanical changes, builds after that are mostly bug fixes/number tuning.

[Shandalar]

patch is still weeks away idk why people get so bent out of shape like their will be lot more changes before it goes live, develop some patience have mercy.

Yeah, I have to copypaste the post saying "Legion Alpha, Lock Issues: Dont worry, its just alpha!..."

Im sorry, but they arent going to decieve me more. Warlock will get nothing during this expansion, they re just taking fun of the warlock community. Assume it.

[Lucrece]

It was your silly, thinly veiled claim that apparently Celestalon does not give a shit about Brewmasters because he mains Guardian, which is amusing because he in fact did play Brewmaster, as I clearly showed you.

The bullshit people spread here about what devs know and don't know or play and don't play has to stop and this was a perfect opportunity to put you back in your place - you know nothing, so don't go ahead and parrot some wild crap and try to claim it's some gospel truth because your e-idol said so.

Case in point - I do not care who Mionelol is, but if he claims that Celestalon does not know anything about Brewmasters, or in fact, that because Celestalon mains Guardian then it's the only thing he knows/cares about, then he is less smart than you make him out to be.

You all just sit here and spread pure speculation based on what you think is the truth and try to present it as a fact, while in reality you have no clue.

I don't think illiterate, self-important dipshits like you are in any capacity to put someone "in their place". Go work out your daddy issues somewhere else.

List of shit you made up so far as to what people say:

1- Celestalon doesn't give a shit about brewmasters. That's all you. I said they delayed to change Brewmasters because they don't main them. By all means come offer me your thoughts on some hunter alt you play on the side and see whether people take your claim seriously that you know as much about hunters playing your hunter alt as you do about your warlock main.

You don't know Mionelol or don't care who he is, or think that he's less smart (says the guy crying about baseless speculation):

https://www.youtube.com/user/Mionelol/videos

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Mionee/simple

When you solo raid bosses without gear from the next raid tier and happen to make it to the front page of this website on a frequent basis, get back to calling people not smart.

2- People saying developers don't know how to play. Another product of your delirious forum crusading.

"You all" says it all. You, the god king of warlocks, show up on this thread to feel good about punishing "you all". Please see a therapist. You're just another forum poster, don't think yourself so important. People will post what they want in spite of you, and you are doing no great service that people here will remember.

Infracted - Woz

[Gaidax]

I soloed Immersius in 5.4 when it was current content and I did not go ahead and make a huge deal about it as if I am some soloing god. Many players in this game do amazing shit, does not make whatever they say a gospel truth, especially when evidence points to otherwise.

That will be my last reply to you, I won't waste any more time on you, pal.

[Lucrece]

Thank god. I hope it remains true.

[avahle]

I don't think illiterate, self-important dipshits like you are in any capacity to put someone "in their place". Go work out your daddy issues somewhere else.

List of shit you made up so far as to what people say:

1- Celestalon doesn't give a shit about brewmasters. That's all you. I said they delayed to change Brewmasters because they don't main them. By all means come offer me your thoughts on some hunter alt you play on the side and see whether people take your claim seriously that you know as much about hunters playing your hunter alt as you do about your warlock main.

You don't know Mionelol or don't care who he is, or think that he's less smart (says the guy crying about baseless speculation):

https://www.youtube.com/user/Mionelol/videos

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Mionee/simple

When you solo raid bosses without gear from the next raid tier and happen to make it to the front page of this website on a frequent basis, get back to calling people not smart.

2- People saying developers don't know how to play. Another product of your delirious forum crusading.

"You all" says it all. You, the god king of warlocks, show up on this thread to feel good about punishing "you all". Please see a therapist. You're just another forum poster, don't think yourself so important. People will post what they want in spite of you, and you are doing no great service that people here will remember.

Can we all just start ignoring him please? He obviously thinks differently than most of us here and 90% of the threads on warlock forums ultimately degenerate into flaming between him(+ a couple other people) and everyone else here. Let him have his say and ignore him and we can have our say. I see value in discussion but arguments between these two groups rarely if ever add anything useful.

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patch is still weeks away idk why people get so bent out of shape like their will be lot more changes before it goes live, develop some patience have mercy.

Because the developers said there will not be "lot more changes" as "lot more changes" requires more time than the 7.1.5 cycle affords.

[Valkaneer]

Celestalon is a propagandist bullshiter, I like to call him Jay Carney. Remember how he said every hunter loved the changes in WoD Beta, when there was thread 25 pages long of hunters in an uproar over how much they hated the changes. I can't stand him. The guy will spin anything to make the company look good, and to make you look like and idiot.

That said he did in fact know how to play a Brewmaster. Only reason Lucrece is running his mouth is over the uproar that in the Brewmaster community when Celestalon gave his guide on how to play Brew, and ya know what, he was right. It was how to play BrM, it's how it was designed to play. I played BrM in Beta, but towards the end it was nerfed and what made it viable fell part. That has no bearing though on Celestalon's post, because he did know what he was saying.

[Tramzh]

I soloed Immersius in 5.4 when it was current content and I did not go ahead and make a huge deal about it as if I am some soloing god. Many players in this game do amazing shit, does not make whatever they say a gospel truth, especially when evidence points to otherwise.

That will be my last reply to you, I won't waste any more time on you, pal.

you are special