Mages' changes facing 7.1.5

[Chromell]

Mate its the armour one...what 5% are you on about...
Do you still hope for a titan forged when you are probably around 880 IL...and run heroic hoping on that boss you will get a better item....CHANGE your loot spec...
Does this exact thing not happen every EXP...same thing everytime...it will always change....if you aint used to it by now..damn dude

Everyone invests in gear in every exp....at 30k a AP drop now leveling an artifact is easy...gems are cheap now....
Its easy now

Stop moaning

Stop overusing ellipsis, it's not making you sound any smarter. They mean the 5% damage trait that you unlock after getting all other 34, which is only available after you get the "useless" armor trait.

[Rylalai]

Mate its the armour one...what 5% are you on about...
Do you still hope for a titan forged when you are probably around 880 IL...and run heroic hoping on that boss you will get a better item....CHANGE your loot spec...
Does this exact thing not happen every EXP...same thing everytime...it will always change....if you aint used to it by now..damn dude

Everyone invests in gear in every exp....at 30k a AP drop now leveling an artifact is easy...gems are cheap now....
Its easy now

Stop moaning

Aye.. 5% overall damage really "sucks" and it's not worth it at all! *eyeroll*

[Cracked]

Sorry but even with the changes no one is going to go after mastery or haste, instead you will be trying to find even more crit just so the spec is more fluid again. If anything they made it worse, especially considering we know how the spec plays at higher crit ratings.

Unless they change the actual scaling of mastery to the point it's close to crit, everyone is still going after crit first and foremost.

Lol, of course you are gonna go for crit as a fire mage, nobody ever expected that to change, why would you go for mastery when your whole spec is based around critting a lot? What they are doing however means that mastery and haste will be more desirable than compared to now, relative to crit.

[Rumstein]

Lol, of course you are gonna go for crit as a fire mage, nobody ever expected that to change, why would you go for mastery when your whole spec is based around critting a lot? What they are doing however means that mastery and haste will be more desirable than compared to now, relative to crit.

Not really. Mastery and haste don't really affect the playstyle at all, whereas going from 45% to 60% crit is an enormous change in the feel of the class.

[Toas]

Not really. Mastery and haste don't really affect the playstyle at all, whereas going from 45% to 60% crit is an enormous change in the feel of the class.

The feel of the spec and the dps of the spec are not necessarily related. You could make the clunkiest spec ever and have it as the #1 dps spec, or vise-versa.

The changes they've made absolutely increase the relative dps value of haste and decrease the relative dps value of crit.

[Armourboy]

The feel of the spec and the dps of the spec are not necessarily related. You could make the clunkiest spec ever and have it as the #1 dps spec, or vise-versa.

The changes they've made absolutely increase the relative dps value of haste and decrease the relative dps value of crit.

Not all that much though. As I played around last night, a 10 ilevel difference with crit suboptimal was at best a push, and even still a loss. Only when I did a massive jump ( 865 to 910 boots) did I see an uptick in damage. So from what I can tell ( granted still needs more testing to find that point) if you are holding on to say an 885 cloak and are wearing an 865, the 885 will most likely come out ahead. Something like 865 to 870 especially without crit still won't be worth equipping.

So basically from what I can tell, or at least seems to me just from messing around last night, Int and Crit are indeed closer, but Crit is still better.

[Cracked]

Not all that much though. As I played around last night, a 10 ilevel difference with crit suboptimal was at best a push, and even still a loss. Only when I did a massive jump ( 865 to 910 boots) did I see an uptick in damage. So from what I can tell ( granted still needs more testing to find that point) if you are holding on to say an 885 cloak and are wearing an 865, the 885 will most likely come out ahead. Something like 865 to 870 especially without crit still won't be worth equipping.

So basically from what I can tell, or at least seems to me just from messing around last night, Int and Crit are indeed closer, but Crit is still better.

I still don't understand what you are trying to convey. Blizzard is fine with you using something 10 ilevel lower because it has the right stats. They said time and time again that 15 ilevels should be the cutoff, where if you get something 15 ilevel higher, it should always be an upgrade.

[Armourboy]

I still don't understand what you are trying to convey. Blizzard is fine with you using something 10 ilevel lower because it has the right stats. They said time and time again that 15 ilevels should be the cutoff, where if you get something 15 ilevel higher, it should always be an upgrade.

Never heard Blizzard state that, and seems the complete opposite of what they have been stating they wanted to do by making ilevel the go to for if something is an upgrade or not. 15 ilevels is still a damn big gap per item.

[Cracked]

Never heard Blizzard state that, and seems the complete opposite of what they have been stating they wanted to do by making ilevel the go to for if something is an upgrade or not. 15 ilevels is still a damn big gap per item.

We’re okay with very small item level upgrades being a tougher choice, but some specs are currently passing up 15+ item levels in favor of secondary stats. That shouldn’t be something players are encouraged to do

Oh look, they literally just said it *again* 3 mins ago.

[Armourboy]

Oh look, they literally just said it *again* 3 mins ago.

Sorry if I'm playing the game rather than sitting with my finger on the refresh button to see every blue post made the second it is made.

[Rumstein]

Not all that much though. As I played around last night, a 10 ilevel difference with crit suboptimal was at best a push, and even still a loss. Only when I did a massive jump ( 865 to 910 boots) did I see an uptick in damage. So from what I can tell ( granted still needs more testing to find that point) if you are holding on to say an 885 cloak and are wearing an 865, the 885 will most likely come out ahead. Something like 865 to 870 especially without crit still won't be worth equipping.

So basically from what I can tell, or at least seems to me just from messing around last night, Int and Crit are indeed closer, but Crit is still better.

I dont think it will change the value of mastery/haste by much though. It looks like it, but thats only because int is now so much more valuable than secondaries that an ilvl upgrade is generally better no matter thr stats. Fire mage doesnt rely on haste past breakpoint at all, mastery is still worth the same (0.75x base mast?) So that wont really go up in value, and crit is still necessary to keep throwing out pyroblasts. All this has done is push crit under int, but the relative priority for secondaries wont vary a whole lot otherwise. Ill wait for later ptr notes and sims, but i feel that the (very rough) current weightings ratio of 1 crit = 1.5 mastery will only push crit higher due to being crit starved (maybe to 1crit=2mast).

[Armourboy]

I dont think it will change the value of mastery/haste by much though. It looks like it, but thats only because int is now so much more valuable than secondaries that an ilvl upgrade is generally better no matter thr stats. Fire mage doesnt rely on haste past breakpoint at all, mastery is still worth the same (0.75x base mast?) So that wont really go up in value, and crit is still necessary to keep throwing out pyroblasts. All this has done is push crit under int, but the relative priority for secondaries wont vary a whole lot otherwise. Ill wait for later ptr notes and sims, but i feel that the (very rough) current weightings ratio of 1 crit = 1.5 mastery will only push crit higher due to being crit starved (maybe to 1crit=2mast).

I'll be honest, I don't think after the changes that Int is better than Crit. It is going to be closer for sure, but I think Crit is still going to be higher as far as stat weights go. The only time that will change is if you an item that is 15 item levels or more, and I'm still not sold that will be the case on rings or necks. Haste may prove to be better than it is currently simply because we will be casting fireballs more often, but then against mastery may be better as well because the individual spells may be hitting harder. Neither one will come close to touching Crit though, that is for certain.

[Geldor]

I'll be honest, I don't think after the changes that Int is better than Crit. It is going to be closer for sure, but I think Crit is still going to be higher as far as stat weights go. The only time that will change is if you an item that is 15 item levels or more, and I'm still not sold that will be the case on rings or necks. Haste may prove to be better than it is currently simply because we will be casting fireballs more often, but then against mastery may be better as well because the individual spells may be hitting harder. Neither one will come close to touching Crit though, that is for certain.

In the same post they said jewelry is an exception and they are fine with this. I think this is part of their "RNG makes you happy" philosophy (e.g. sometimes you get a really good new ring which has exactly the stats you need, and hence is a fine upgrade which makes you feel good).

Not saying that's good or bad, but what I think Lore's statement means.

[sosaria]

The way things are going with the secondary stat changes, Blizzard may very well give back our spec-specific crit "passives" like the Molten armor crit buff... if only to retain the fire mage rotation.

I dun wanna sit here spamming fireballs fishing for a pyroblast as a result of lowered crit.

[Armourboy]

In the same post they said jewelry is an exception and they are fine with this. I think this is part of their "RNG makes you happy" philosophy (e.g. sometimes you get a really good new ring which has exactly the stats you need, and hence is a fine upgrade which makes you feel good).

Not saying that's good or bad, but what I think Lore's statement means.

Well I think if I got it right rings and necks will have more secondary stats to try and more or less mimic Int but without having Int. Problem is I think on PTR now the only reason a higher ilevel item can even be better is because Int and Crit are closer so eventually the INT increase can over take it, but rings and necks won't have that and I'm not sure Haste, Mastery, or Versatility will have moved close enough for you to take say a Haste/Mastery ring even if it is higher ilevel.

I suspect you are right though, they will just be ok with it for now, however it falls.

[sosaria]

What Blizzard might do is give more more when we're stacking intellect... Solves the whole ilvl issue and we still get to keep our crit for the rotation.

Ahhhh, one can dream.

[Armourboy]

What Blizzard might do is give more more when we're stacking intellect... Solves the whole ilvl issue and we still get to keep our crit for the rotation.

Ahhhh, one can dream.

I'm still not sure why they don't add Crit back as a component of INT like it used to be, seems like it would go a long way to pushing INT back on top. I'm guessing there was a reason they took it off and I just can't remember the why.

[Geldor]

Well I think if I got it right rings and necks will have more secondary stats to try and more or less mimic Int but without having Int. Problem is I think on PTR now the only reason a higher ilevel item can even be better is because Int and Crit are closer so eventually the INT increase can over take it, but rings and necks won't have that and I'm not sure Haste, Mastery, or Versatility will have moved close enough for you to take say a Haste/Mastery ring even if it is higher ilevel.

I suspect you are right though, they will just be ok with it for now, however it falls.

Yup, I totally understand what you mean. If I understand Lore's quote correctly, they are fine with jewelry being a exemption to the "15ilvl rule" in some cases (like fire mages and crit).

[Rumstein]

They have increased scaling by Item level on jewelry for secondaries now. ilvl 905 is 20% more on PTR than live, so ilvl makes a bit more of a difference there as well.

[Noobles]

You'd best stop talking before someone not as nice as me points out how ignorant you are in more colorful terms.

you clearly shoved all your artifact knowledge in fire

seriously its a game fml...go with the flow lol.

change when needed!