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  1. #141
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Katsutomai View Post
    Ah, lovely. More people not having a clue that "it's just PTR" has been said since early Beta and always fallen through... "It's just Beta guys! Give them a chance! It's just PTR guys! Give them a chance! It's just PTR #2 guys! Give them a chance!" How many chances do you give before you start feeling extremely negatively about how they're treating a class? I love my Demon Hunter and I plan on sticking by it no matter what.. But these changes make me sad.
    Agree with this.

  2. #142
    Deleted
    Since they are nerfing DB from 75% to 65% hit chance Blizzard considers it too good but they are going the wrong way about it. DB should have a 100% hit chance but reduced damage on hit to remove RNG from fury gain where it is already much RNG thanks to fury refund on crit. And for god sake make it chaos damage instead of shadow damage, mastery is already kind of bad for DH.

    Another thing I would personally like to see is making Felblade baseline for both Havoc and Vengeance since it as much to the gameplay and it just feels more fun/better/smoother to play with 2 fury generators and 1 who adds a refreshing chance to procc. (Would be fun to have 1 procc is the baseline.) This would require new numbers and a new talent but I think it would be worth it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    We all seem to have alot of ideas and opinions so lets help to make them known to blizzard through posts. Let them hear us!

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by evermynd View Post
    you guys need to clam the fuck down. None of those changes are in stone.

    Blur still resets and so does netherwalk. It has been this way on the ptr through every update even after being reported. We are likely not losing overall dps with this patch.
    Another guy who lives in a dream, i feel sorry for guys like you, soooo naive

  4. #144
    State of this thread. Current numbers aren't even a big nerf, and tuning's not even started yet. Havoc, which was OP at the start of the ex pac, still good now in the vast majority of the game, and isn't getting nerfed barely sure makes you guys cry doesn't it? It's actually embarrassing. I don't exaggerate when i say you should seek help if a game makes you this angry. Also, it's even worse because most claims are just baseless ranting that means nothing.

  5. #145
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkol View Post
    State of this thread. Current numbers aren't even a big nerf, and tuning's not even started yet. Havoc, which was OP at the start of the ex pac, still good now in the vast majority of the game, and isn't getting nerfed barely sure makes you guys cry doesn't it? It's actually embarrassing. I don't exaggerate when i say you should seek help if a game makes you this angry. Also, it's even worse because most claims are just baseless ranting that means nothing.
    Lol you obviously don't know what your're talking about. If you think Havoc is fine on PTR you need help man. /Facepalm

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by OlorinOrigin View Post
    Lol you obviously don't know what your're talking about. If you think Havoc is fine on PTR you need help man. /Facepalm
    I know exactly what i'm talking about. I know the numbers. I know the testing. Then again it's the PTR, and i don't happen to be a whiny child so i don't get too upset about it.

  7. #147
    Deleted
    LOL you come here, commenting on ppl and not the game . Ppl who go personal like you, I don't consider. Numbers? you know? I see no numbers, just whining about whining. Don't comment on ppl comment on the game.. Geez. And try to read btw lines..

  8. #148
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Strimmiz View Post
    Since they are nerfing DB from 75% to 65% hit chance Blizzard considers it too good but they are going the wrong way about it. DB should have a 100% hit chance but reduced damage on hit to remove RNG from fury gain where it is already much RNG thanks to fury refund on crit. And for god sake make it chaos damage instead of shadow damage, mastery is already kind of bad for DH.

    Another thing I would personally like to see is making Felblade baseline for both Havoc and Vengeance since it as much to the gameplay and it just feels more fun/better/smoother to play with 2 fury generators and 1 who adds a refreshing chance to procc. (Would be fun to have 1 procc is the baseline.) This would require new numbers and a new talent but I think it would be worth it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    We all seem to have alot of ideas and opinions so lets help to make them known to blizzard through posts. Let them hear us!

    Best post since a long time.
    Demonsblade 100%
    Felblade base line

    Their are so much luck specs, if you want a lucky spec with a 50 or 60 or 70% chance pic rogue or warrior.

    I play DH because i hate to play around lucky things.

    The nerf to Demonsblade was good but the wrong why. Nerf the damage and the fury buff the prochance to 100%

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkol View Post
    I know exactly what i'm talking about. I know the numbers. I know the testing. Then again it's the PTR, and i don't happen to be a whiny child so i don't get too upset about it.
    If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that the changes we're concerned about aren't pure numbers tuning, in the sense of ability X does Y damage, down from Z. We're worried about our resource generation, which is an indirect change to our DPS output. Not going to attack you here like some others have, for obvious reasons. We're losing not one, not two, but SEVERAL sources of fury generation all at once, which WILL have a severe impact on the gameplay and output of the spec. To spell it out:

    Secondary stat adjustments from 350 rating per point to 400. Reduces our crit, which reduces fury refunded from Chaos Strike.
    -5% crit baseline, limiting fury refunds from Chaos Strike crits.
    Demon Speed artifact trait removed, meaning fewer Fel Rushes. (Fel Rush gives fury from Fel Mastery talent)
    Demon Blades proc chance reduced from 75% to 65%.
    Anger of the Half Giants fury gain proc reduced.

    I feel like I missed something, and probably did, but those are all I can recall off the top of my head. This is why we're concerned. It's going to significantly negatively impact the gameplay of the spec.

  10. #150
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfròst View Post
    If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that the changes we're concerned about aren't pure numbers tuning, in the sense of ability X does Y damage, down from Z. We're worried about our resource generation, which is an indirect change to our DPS output. Not going to attack you here like some others have, for obvious reasons. We're losing not one, not two, but SEVERAL sources of fury generation all at once, which WILL have a severe impact on the gameplay and output of the spec. To spell it out:

    Secondary stat adjustments from 350 rating per point to 400. Reduces our crit, which reduces fury refunded from Chaos Strike.
    -5% crit baseline, limiting fury refunds from Chaos Strike crits.
    Demon Speed artifact trait removed, meaning fewer Fel Rushes. (Fel Rush gives fury from Fel Mastery talent)
    Demon Blades proc chance reduced from 75% to 65%.
    Anger of the Half Giants fury gain proc reduced.

    I feel like I missed something, and probably did, but those are all I can recall off the top of my head. This is why we're concerned. It's going to significantly negatively impact the gameplay of the spec.
    Good post Soulfrost!

    I dont care to much about the damage numbers but more about the feeling you get from the gameplay. If you want numbers go play blizzards favourite class mage/rogue. And already now (without ring ofc) you often sit doing nothing rolling ur thumbs and waiting for Rage... This is not a good gameplay, it feels bad and it is clunky. This is not something we want and I am scared to see that so many think of the patch notes as "non final" when the history of ptr clearly has shown us otherwise. If we do not voice our concern and sit passively as you want @Sarkol we are gonna get a clunky playstyle which none of us will enjoy.

    Post such as Sarkols concerns me greatly. He is saying he dont care, but yet he is here crankin down on people who voices their concerns and want to change something.

    "State of this thread. Current numbers aren't even a big nerf, and tuning's not even started yet. Havoc, which was OP at the start of the ex pac, still good now in the vast majority of the game, and isn't getting nerfed barely sure makes you guys cry doesn't it? It's actually embarrassing. I don't exaggerate when i say you should seek help if a game makes you this angry. Also, it's even worse because most claims are just baseless ranting that means nothing." Posted by Sarkol...

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfròst View Post
    If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that the changes we're concerned about aren't pure numbers tuning, in the sense of ability X does Y damage, down from Z. We're worried about our resource generation, which is an indirect change to our DPS output. Not going to attack you here like some others have, for obvious reasons. We're losing not one, not two, but SEVERAL sources of fury generation all at once, which WILL have a severe impact on the gameplay and output of the spec. To spell it out:

    Secondary stat adjustments from 350 rating per point to 400. Reduces our crit, which reduces fury refunded from Chaos Strike.
    -5% crit baseline, limiting fury refunds from Chaos Strike crits.
    Demon Speed artifact trait removed, meaning fewer Fel Rushes. (Fel Rush gives fury from Fel Mastery talent)
    Demon Blades proc chance reduced from 75% to 65%.
    Anger of the Half Giants fury gain proc reduced.

    I feel like I missed something, and probably did, but those are all I can recall off the top of my head. This is why we're concerned. It's going to significantly negatively impact the gameplay of the spec.
    Thats the whole point. We are playing at end of expansion gameplay. My DH has 50% crit. Mages are running around with 60-70% crit. Classes are getting nerfed hard across the board for resource generation and secondary stats because this is only the 1st raid tier and we are approaching end of expansion OP levels. Nowhere to go from here without breaking the game. Its the developers fault for overpowering secondary stats this early in the expansion but that is the situation we are in and they have to fix it.

    Will the stat and ability squish impact gameplay? Absolutely. Do they have to do a squish? Absolutely. Can they do a squish but keep game play enjoyable while allowing room for it to develop more? Thats their goal and I hope they move towards it successfully. But in this part of the PTR they had to do the squish first and then tune gameplay later. They will likely do that by buffing primary stats like int and str so that ilvl once more determines the power of gear rather than secondary stats.
    We will likely see gameplay changed in such a way that each class but especially us since we are so reliant on crit over anything else (even agi) play slower, crit less but hit harder. That is the only way to allow for growth over the course of the expansion
    Last edited by Faenlyn; 2016-12-01 at 11:04 PM.

  12. #152
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Faenlyn View Post
    Thats the whole point. We are playing at end of expansion gameplay. My DH has 50% crit. Mages are running around with 60-70% crit. Classes are getting nerfed hard across the board for resource generation and secondary stats because this is only the 1st raid tier and we are approaching end of expansion OP levels. Nowhere to go from here without breaking the game. Its the developers fault for overpowering secondary stats this early in the expansion but that is the situation we are in and they have to fix it.

    Will the stat and ability squish impact gameplay? Absolutely. Do they have to do a squish? Absolutely. Can they do a squish but keep game play enjoyable while allowing room for it to develop more? Thats their goal and I hope they move towards it successfully. But in this part of the PTR they had to do the squish first and then tune gameplay later. They will likely do that by buffing primary stats like int and str so that ilvl once more determines the power of gear rather than secondary stats.
    We will likely see gameplay changed in such a way that each class but especially us since we are so reliant on crit over anything else (even agi) play slower, crit less but hit harder. That is the only way to allow for growth over the course of the expansion

    He s not wrong about stat scaling. If it stayed like it is right now, i would go in nighthold grab the 4P set and have 73% crit rate on Chaos strike. That would be ridiculous.

  13. #153
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    As long they make Prepared viable again or -anything- that uses demon's bite, i'll be fine.

    Yes, i rather spam, be GCD locked, than having to wait 3 - 5 secs of downtime on the rotation

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Faenlyn View Post
    Thats the whole point. We are playing at end of expansion gameplay. My DH has 50% crit. Mages are running around with 60-70% crit. Classes are getting nerfed hard across the board for resource generation and secondary stats because this is only the 1st raid tier and we are approaching end of expansion OP levels. Nowhere to go from here without breaking the game. Its the developers fault for overpowering secondary stats this early in the expansion but that is the situation we are in and they have to fix it.

    Will the stat and ability squish impact gameplay? Absolutely. Do they have to do a squish? Absolutely. Can they do a squish but keep game play enjoyable while allowing room for it to develop more? Thats their goal and I hope they move towards it successfully. But in this part of the PTR they had to do the squish first and then tune gameplay later. They will likely do that by buffing primary stats like int and str so that ilvl once more determines the power of gear rather than secondary stats.
    We will likely see gameplay changed in such a way that each class but especially us since we are so reliant on crit over anything else (even agi) play slower, crit less but hit harder. That is the only way to allow for growth over the course of the expansion
    See, but what you're saying is that the gameplay fluidity we're experiencing now isn't intended, which is a direct contradiction of what Blizzard themselves have stated (and you, as well) is their goal. Their example was Fire mages with the extreme need for crit to make the spec work. What they need to do is redesign the way these specific specs work so that they don't rely on the secondaries to function and be enjoyable to play.

    For example, for Havoc, they need to remove the percentage-based proc rate on Demon Blades, instead making it a guaranteed fury generation on auto attack hits, and balance it by making those autoattacks generate less fury. There's already a substantial chance for autoattacks to miss anyway. Having two instances of RNG determining if you'll get resources to play your class is foolish.

    The removal of Demon Speed is completely unwarranted, as that allowed the spec to retain its fluidity with relation to the Momentum talent/buff. If they want Blur to be strictly an active defensive ability, add Demon Speed back under its own ability button. That, or speed up the recharge time for Fel Rush. Hell, even Demon Speed turned into a talent instead of an artifact trait, in the Master of the Glaive tier would be more preferable.

    My point is that there are far better solutions to what they're trying to accomplish, than what they're implementing.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfròst View Post
    See, but what you're saying is that the gameplay fluidity we're experiencing now isn't intended, which is a direct contradiction of what Blizzard themselves have stated (and you, as well) is their goal. Their example was Fire mages with the extreme need for crit to make the spec work. What they need to do is redesign the way these specific specs work so that they don't rely on the secondaries to function and be enjoyable to play.

    For example, for Havoc, they need to remove the percentage-based proc rate on Demon Blades, instead making it a guaranteed fury generation on auto attack hits, and balance it by making those autoattacks generate less fury. There's already a substantial chance for autoattacks to miss anyway. Having two instances of RNG determining if you'll get resources to play your class is foolish.

    The removal of Demon Speed is completely unwarranted, as that allowed the spec to retain its fluidity with relation to the Momentum talent/buff. If they want Blur to be strictly an active defensive ability, add Demon Speed back under its own ability button. That, or speed up the recharge time for Fel Rush. Hell, even Demon Speed turned into a talent instead of an artifact trait, in the Master of the Glaive tier would be more preferable.

    My point is that there are far better solutions to what they're trying to accomplish, than what they're implementing.
    Theyre not going to redesign a whole spec like Fire Mage or DH at this point in the game. They're just going to try and make them work as best they can early in the expansion knowing that in later tiers they will grow into more fluid gameplay. They tried to fix that element of secondary stat dependency for fluid game play and they totally broke the scaling. To focus on Fire Mage because they are the extreme version of us being entirely reliant on crit, they only play enjoyably and fluidly once at about 40%+ crit. But they miscalculated and players are going around with 70% crit rates once geared. Is that fluid and fun to play? I bet it is. But its tier 1!! Youre not supposed to have that level of power yet. They tried to make the specs fun and able early on so that mages are not terrible at the start of an expansion and great at the end but in doing so they totally broke stat scaling. Geared players are doing 5-10x the damage of new players in heroics. You now pass up items that are 20-30 item level upgrades so you can hold on to more crit. More crit. More crit. Until you hit 80-90% crit next tier.. And then what todo you do after that!? The game is heading towards completely breaking and they have to fix scaling now.

    No a squish has got to happen. Will classes be less fluid and less fun. They will be. If you're never played the beginning of an expansion then welcome to T1 of an expansion. Its not supposed to be this powerful just yet. They will try to make the nerf hurt as little as possible the gameplay but rest assured it still is going to hurt.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Mannevond View Post
    I was so hopeful about this PTR build, oh boy how wrong I was. I wanna see those people now, who were saying "omg this is first ptr build stop losing your shit". The first ptr build always shows the direction of the class is going, and this new ptr notes proves it

    I think we can safely assume our days of glory, with or without the ring, are over. There is absolutely no build or no legendary item that will simply makes us better than now. In any case we'll be much worse than we are now.

    It's funny how they reverted the fire mage bracer nerfs JUST 1 DAY after the first 7.1.5 was released, simply because they flooded the forums with crying topics . On the other hand, I'm checking official DH forums and fcking nothing Full of retarded topics like "RATE MY XMOG PLS <3<3", "DEMON BLADES IS BORING ".

    I've been playing this game for over 10 years and I have never stopped playing because blizzard destroyer the current class that I'm playing, however I think there is a first time to everything. There are no other classes that are appealing for me right now, so if demon hunter is butchered like this, what's the point of playing?
    Pretty much this!
    PS:WTF can you expect from the trash dev team blizz currently has...and some of them are imported from the fail diablo 3 shit.All they can do is add some more rng on top of some rng...What a bunch of euglenas...RIP blizz 2016

  17. #157
    Deleted
    I won't stop you to give out your opinions, It's an undeniable fact that we'll get nerfed, however we won't be trash. Your new fury generator (which kinda sucks due to rng but atleast can make you cap at fury at times) will be felblade, first blood will be the go to talent for both st and cleave, bloodlet is litteraly behind by 50% (yes, blade dance does double the damage of bloodlet atm in current ptr.) Now, keep in mind that the next raid tier 2 set bonus will boost all your fury regen abilities by 20% along with the 4 set that gives chaos strike an extra 10% crit. I'm not saying that our nerfs are justified, but blizzard MIGHT be nerfing us since they're keeping the set bonus into consideration (which is dumb for the pvpers under us.)

    Another nerf I'd like to point out and that most haven't noticed is the blade dance nerf, that's right they nerfed it by 4% attack power, might not sound much but if you add that up with everything else that got thrown at us...awch. I'll also go ahead and say that your current legendaries will be HEAVILY outclassed by both the shoulder and trinket. The trinket atm on ptr does 12% of most melee dps their damage (easily in your top 4 highest damaging abilities on a 1min 15 sec cooldown, you'll always use this with nemesis/momentum) don't bother with demonic, It's trash. In a 3 minute dummy test I managed to have a total of 70 annihilation casts the shoulder reduces the cd on meta during meta as well. So basically in an encounter you can easily triple your current annihilation casts which is pretty neat, not to mention paired up with the nighthold trinket that gives all your attacks a chance to reduce meta cd by 5 seconds..you get where I'm coming from. But then there's the secondary stat nerf for all classes including us, which will make us want them even more.

    That said I wish they gave felblade chaos damage instead of fire and if they wanted to nerf the ring again atleast make it provide 1-10 fury or something. 1-6 isn't even noticeable anymore and a lot of ring users their dps has plummeted on the ptr compared to live (we're talking about 50k+ here) I don't have a ring, but come on, that's beyond sad to even call it a legendary. I did not feel a big difference with the DB nerf, maybe you guys did? Atleast we can use felblade again.

    Before anyone goes like "well without momentum we atleast don't have to fel rush anymore" lol don't be naïve. It's still 6% of your damage at the least. You'll be fel rushing often enough. Regardless of everything good stated above, we're still gonna be left in a severely weakened state and BALANCING us around LEGENDARIES and bis trinkets is the dumbest fcking thing I've ever seen, not only that, It's bad class design. Good job contradicting yourselves again blizz (no major changes) just an entire gameplay change that they promised us not to do this expansion, they didn't have alpha or beta for this :^) or even the pre-expansion lol..

    Tl;dr,: fuck you blizz, stop nerfing a middle of the pack class because shitters were whining about momentum being too hard or demon blades being too boring, if they wanna play a stationary class they can go fap on their rogues or something.
    Last edited by mmoc8984276725; 2016-12-02 at 12:08 AM.

  18. #158
    Deleted
    The legendaries broke the game litterarly

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by kayusa View Post
    I won't stop you to give out your opinions, It's an undeniable fact that we'll get nerfed, however we won't be trash. Your new fury generator (which kinda sucks due to rng but atleast can make you cap at fury at times) will be felblade, first blood will be the go to talent for both st and cleave, bloodlet is litteraly behind by 50% (yes, blade dance does double the damage of bloodlet atm in current ptr.) Now, keep in mind that the next raid tier 2 set bonus will boost all your fury regen abilities by 20% along with the 4 set that gives chaos strike an extra 10% crit. I'm not saying that our nerfs are justified, but blizzard MIGHT be nerfing us since they're keeping the set bonus into consideration (which is dumb for the pvpers under us.)

    Another nerf I'd like to point out and that most haven't noticed is the blade dance nerf, that's right they nerfed it by 4% attack power, might not sound much but if you add that up with everything else that got thrown at us...awch. I'll also go ahead and say that your current legendaries will be HEAVILY outclassed by both the shoulder and trinket. The trinket atm on ptr does 12% of most melee dps their damage (easily in your top 4 highest damaging abilities on a 1min 15 sec cooldown, you'll always use this with nemesis/momentum) don't bother with demonic, It's trash. In a 3 minute dummy test I managed to have a total of 70 annihilation casts the shoulder reduces the cd on meta during meta as well. So basically in an encounter you can easily triple your current annihilation casts which is pretty neat, not to mention paired up with the nighthold trinket that gives all your attacks a chance to reduce meta cd by 5 seconds..you get where I'm coming from. But then there's the secondary stat nerf for all classes including us, which will make us want them even more.

    That said I wish they gave felblade chaos damage instead of fire and if they wanted to nerf the ring again atleast make it provide 1-10 fury or something. 1-6 isn't even noticeable anymore and a lot of ring users their dps has plummeted on the ptr compared to live (we're talking about 50k+ here) I don't have a ring, but come on, that's beyond sad to even call it a legendary. I did not feel a big difference with the DB nerf, maybe you guys did? Atleast we can use felblade again.

    Before anyone goes like "well without momentum we atleast don't have to fel rush anymore" lol don't be naïve. It's still 6% of your damage at the least. You'll be fel rushing often enough. Regardless of everything good stated above, we're still gonna be left in a severely weakened state and BALANCING us around LEGENDARIES and bis trinkets is the dumbest fcking thing I've ever seen, not only that, It's bad class design. Good job contradicting yourselves again blizz (no major changes) just an entire gameplay change that they promised us not to do this expansion, they didn't have alpha or beta for this :^) or even the pre-expansion lol..

    Tl;dr,: fuck you blizz, stop nerfing a middle of the pack class because shitters were whining about momentum being too hard or demon blades being too boring, if they wanna play a stationary class they can go fap on their rogues or something.
    10% fury gen, not 20% for 4PC right now.
    Yeah, at best 1/2 fury more per generation. HOW AMAZING ! ..

  20. #160
    Deleted
    Good Morning....and


    F U C K____Y O U___B L I Z Z A R D

    STOP TO nerf "middle ladder classes"...always mage and rogue are OP..in ptr without ring i generate an AMAZING LITTLE RAGE (with and without felblade, with and without prepared, with and without all fucking talents and i playing in a 2/3 ToV Mythic guild, so i'm not an idiot and i play well my characters since Vanilla).

    FIX THIS SHIT CLASS

    I hope some Blizzard employees is reading that post: FU.CK YO.U, incompetent!.
    Last edited by mmoca212fd9308; 2016-12-02 at 09:10 AM.

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