Warlock: The Death of a Class in WoW

[BannedForViews]

I'm gonna break down your response and my reply in an easy to digest way for you because obviously your brain cant comprehend it any other way:



Now, I hope that clarifies things for you, I didn't ignore any of your response to me, in fact I addressed all of it. As you can see above, I haven't changed a single word, just broke it all down into bite sized chunks that you can hopefully understand. Now I just want to point out that you have completely ignored my response while trying to claim I did the same to you. I have bolded the specific parts of my response that you have not addressed in case you want to try again.

You're cute.

It isn't close to 10%. It never has been close to 10%. This is not a new issue. It has bee naround literally since the game started. They do not take steps to fix this.

Obviously it's for optimally played characters. I even referenced that when I said that even if they made everyone do the same damage, it still wouldn't translate that way.

Please, stop pretending like you're providing me with any information. I'm speaking to you rhetorically. I don't care what you think about any of this because you've proven from the get go you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

I already defended my statement. Balance can be made perfect, but no one would enjoy it. Even if it were theoretically perfect it wouldn't be so in practice because of human error. Even after accepting all that, they still should aim to make it theoretically within a reasonable range, e.g. 10%, but they can't even be bothered to do that, so keyboard warriors like yourself who jump to blizzards defense and every opportunity come here and say nonsense about how someone has to eat shit because there must be a top and bottom and guess what kids, it's your time to be on the bottom, while completely ignoring that most people aren't upset about being on the bottom but by HOW MUCH they are on the bottom. the HOW MUCH has always been the concern of wow players, but why would I expect you to understand that.

[Hctaz]

3 specs that we can't readily switch between, so what is your point? You share a link that has affliction second with a small spattering of parses compared to other specs, then you bring up that other specs perform well and are warlock, so clearly warlocks are great. Way to move the goal posts.

You can very easily swap between Destro and Demo and both those specs will cover you for very nearly every fight in Emerald Nightmare. The only spec that has a different stat priority is affliction and you don't really need it. I linked logs that show warlocks are doing well and they are. Look at hunter. They have two specs which are absolutely abysmal.

The point is warlocks are obviously fine as a class. Sure you need to swap specs but suck it up. You could be like hunter or dk who have some of the worst options for dps specs in the game. Frost and MM are pretty good but they don't beat warlocks on every fight. Warlocks have the option to ALWAYS be useful in Emerald Nightmare.

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You're cute.

It isn't close to 10%. It never has been close to 10%. This is not a new issue. It has bee naround literally since the game started. They do not take steps to fix this.

Obviously it's for optimally played characters. I even referenced that when I said that even if they made everyone do the same damage, it still wouldn't translate that way.

Please, stop pretending like you're providing me with any information. I'm speaking to you rhetorically. I don't care what you think about any of this because you've proven from the get go you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

I already defended my statement. Balance can be made perfect, but no one would enjoy it. Even if it were theoretically perfect it wouldn't be so in practice because of human error. Even after accepting all that, they still should aim to make it theoretically within a reasonable range, e.g. 10%, but they can't even be bothered to do that, so keyboard warriors like yourself who jump to blizzards defense and every opportunity come here and say nonsense about how someone has to eat shit because there must be a top and bottom and guess what kids, it's your time to be on the bottom, while completely ignoring that most people aren't upset about being on the bottom but by HOW MUCH they are on the bottom. the HOW MUCH has always been the concern of wow players, but why would I expect you to understand that.

Warlocks are nowhere near the bottom or not a viable option. QQ harder? This post about being bottom by how much or this and that is literally irrelevant. Warlocks are not this low. They have perfectly viable and even GOOD options for every single fight in the current raid.

[Deleted]

what a ton of BS hctaz in your writing, only from a guy who obviously either troll or don't have a clue about warlock.
Why use a warlock over a MM ? over a DK ? over a mage ?no interrupt, no immune, no versatility during the game (the warlock is stuck with the choice he made be4 pull : ST, or cleave or AOE, then is you need more than one thing, bybye)

and more overall , clunky mecanics for ALL 3 specs :

destro is fully rng mastery fest, we would trade for crit everyday as its far more reliable
demo has the DE (+mana tap) every fucking 4 seconds, which class micro manage mana? arcane. period.
and aff is the worse with a soul efigy taken from prismatic crystall off mage, which was a cancer base from start.

so maybe warlock are not bottom dps in EN, yeah, but the price is high : no real fun compared with 2 previous xpac.

[Hctaz]

so maybe warlock are not bottom dps in EN, yeah, but the price is high : no real fun compared with 2 previous xpac.

This is all subjective. If you guys are whining for class changes mid expansion then y'all can forget it. The only reason I've been commenting the way I have been is because I figured everybody was whining about not being good enough to raid. Your output and utility is fine from a raiding standpoint. Warlock portal is extremely useful for fights and even helps bypass a mechanic on mythic Elerethe. It helps you move out of Tree Vagina's room faster in mythic as well when you have floor shit everywhere. You use it on mythic Ursoc so your entire range group can tunnel the boss without ever moving aside from one portal from right to left side of the room and whenever his damage gets too high from his roar so the ranged needs to help soak it. It's super useful.

People expecting 7.1.5 to actually change the way warlock plays... you can forget it. They ONLY do major class reworks between expansions. If you were expecting something different this time around then I dunno what to tell you. You had plenty of time to see how the specs played and should have made your decision then.

[Klingers]

I mean is warlock even that bad? What is it that people are so upset about because the warlocks I talk to are pretty happy with the state of their class in terms of damage output.

They're just not... Fun. It can be hard to articulate beyond that but that's the crux of it.

[pies1]

I mean is warlock even that bad? What is it that people are so upset about because the warlocks I talk to are pretty happy with the state of their class in terms of damage output.

Damage is irrelevant to every spec playing like arse.

[LaserChild9]

Jesus man, don't come onto forums if you aren't gonna read the posts you are responding to, you just make yourself look like an idiot.

You're cute.

It isn't close to 10%. It never has been close to 10%. This is not a new issue. It has bee naround literally since the game started. They do not take steps to fix this.

Now as we can see below, I didnt say it was close to 10% did I?

Blizzard have said somewhere that ideally the gap between top and bottom dps would be smaller, (I'm sure a 10% difference was the figure) but its all a work in progress and its not an easy thing to achieve.

I already defended my statement. Balance can be made perfect, but no one would enjoy it. Even if it were theoretically perfect it wouldn't be so in practice because of human error.

This quote does not even make sense, you start by saying that they could make dps completely equal and you finish by saying that even then it wouldn't be completely equal, you contradicted yourself and in the same sentence no less. It cant be equal and not equal at the same time, its not Schrodinger's fucking cat.

Even after accepting all that, they still should aim to make it theoretically within a reasonable range, e.g. 10%, but they can't even be bothered to do that, so keyboard warriors like yourself who jump to blizzards defense and every opportunity come here and say nonsense about how someone has to eat shit because there must be a top and bottom

I'm a keyboard warrior and you are not? You are here, defending the whiny cry babies that think that because they pay a subscription they are entitled to tell the devs how to do their jobs and I am the keyboard warrior for just pointing out that its not as easy as pressing a button and magically fixing it?

guess what kids, it's your time to be on the bottom, while completely ignoring that most people aren't upset about being on the bottom but by HOW MUCH they are on the bottom. the HOW MUCH has always been the concern of wow players, but why would I expect you to understand that.

This is unfortunate, but again, Blizzard have publicly addressed this, they have stated that they want that gap to be smaller, don't you think if it was as easy as you say it is they would just do it? Do you think they sit in their office laughing at the forums? You think they are intentionally trolling you for funzies? Grow up kid, the real world does not work like that. They have even put up a blue post recently stating that they know they fucked up with Warlocks but its not that easy a fix and they are working on it. What more do you want? Do you actually think that they are sitting there doing nothing, making these posts just to shut you up? I'm really trying to understand your mindset here. What do they have to gain from lying to/ignoring their players?

[Deleted]

Warlocks are fine. But actually so are most other classes. The only one that comes to mind that is not really suited for raiding at the moment is the Elemental Shaman. But: Shaman has an absolutely great Enhance spec that is very very good in raids and Elemental can go absolutely crazy in m+.

I've yet to see a class that is so badly tuned that it cannot be brought to mythic progression fights (as long as you don't strive to be in the top 100 or probably even top 50). I'm just assuming now that 95% of people posting here are NOT part of the Top 50 world guilds

[Bishy]

what a ton of BS hctaz in your writing, only from a guy who obviously either troll or don't have a clue about warlock.
Why use a warlock over a MM ? over a DK ? over a mage ?no interrupt, no immune, no versatility during the game (the warlock is stuck with the choice he made be4 pull : ST, or cleave or AOE, then is you need more than one thing, bybye)

and more overall , clunky mecanics for ALL 3 specs :

destro is fully rng mastery fest, we would trade for crit everyday as its far more reliable
demo has the DE (+mana tap) every fucking 4 seconds, which class micro manage mana? arcane. period.
and aff is the worse with a soul efigy taken from prismatic crystall off mage, which was a cancer base from start.

so maybe warlock are not bottom dps in EN, yeah, but the price is high : no real fun compared with 2 previous xpac.

thats bias

I find warlocks' playstyle is really cool and fun and in terms of dps, we are in reasonable spot right now, Im talking about Mythic mode only, where every warlocks know how to play

[Dwill]

thats bias

I find warlocks' playstyle is really cool and fun and in terms of dps, we are in reasonable spot right now, Im talking about Mythic mode only, where every warlocks know how to play

The bolded parts are quite ironic and actually quite hilarious if you even think that.

[froookie]

You can very easily swap between Destro and Demo and both those specs will cover you for very nearly every fight in Emerald Nightmare. The only spec that has a different stat priority is affliction and you don't really need it. I linked logs that show warlocks are doing well and they are. Look at hunter. They have two specs which are absolutely abysmal.

The point is warlocks are obviously fine as a class. Sure you need to swap specs but suck it up. You could be like hunter or dk who have some of the worst options for dps specs in the game. Frost and MM are pretty good but they don't beat warlocks on every fight. Warlocks have the option to ALWAYS be useful in Emerald Nightmare.

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Warlocks are nowhere near the bottom or not a viable option. QQ harder? This post about being bottom by how much or this and that is literally irrelevant. Warlocks are not this low. They have perfectly viable and even GOOD options for every single fight in the current raid.

Sure warlocks are fine, that is why everybody wants to bring along a lock when doing m+

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/9#
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/9#keystone=3
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/9#keystone=4
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/9#keystone=5
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/9#keystone=6
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/9#keystone=7
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/9#keystone=8
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/9#keystone=9
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/9#keystone=10
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/9#keystone=11
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/9#keystone=12
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/9#keystone=13
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/9#keystone=14
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/9#keystone=15

[Deleted]

Why do people think it is the DMG part that sucks about this class?
I changed to Shaman just before Legion hit, since Warlock is just not fun. I don't really care about being first och dps or at 12-13th place on recount.
The thing I do care about and this is the problem with the class, it's so fucking boring to play it this expansion. I've had my Warlock since TBC and I have never been this tired of it.
Affliction is just stupid with no Soulswap, why the fuck change this after 10 years? Idiotic.
Demon with no Metamorphosis, why the fuck change this after 10 years? Idiotic.
RNG shit as destro, why the fuck change the Mastery so it's useless? Idiotic.

The class may be Strong, but the gameplay is boring as hell.

[Deleted]

As a destro lock i would say that the damage is mostly fine but i dont enjoy being the worst ST spec in the game, also the RNG mechanics with soul shards and our mastery can be really annoying..

[Lasombria]

As a service to the warlock community, I've rendered the argument into a convenient pictorial form.

[Deleted]

You can very easily swap between Destro and Demo and both those specs will cover you for very nearly every fight in Emerald Nightmare. The only spec that has a different stat priority is affliction and you don't really need it. I linked logs that show warlocks are doing well and they are. Look at hunter. They have two specs which are absolutely abysmal.

The point is warlocks are obviously fine as a class. Sure you need to swap specs but suck it up. You could be like hunter or dk who have some of the worst options for dps specs in the game. Frost and MM are pretty good but they don't beat warlocks on every fight. Warlocks have the option to ALWAYS be useful in Emerald Nightmare.

- - - Updated - - -



Warlocks are nowhere near the bottom or not a viable option. QQ harder? This post about being bottom by how much or this and that is literally irrelevant. Warlocks are not this low. They have perfectly viable and even GOOD options for every single fight in the current raid.

What if dont like playing a spec which i didnt invest nearly enough artifact power into?

[Xeranath]

Affliction is just stupid with no Soulswap, why the fuck change this after 10 years? Idiotic.
Demon with no Metamorphosis, why the fuck change this after 10 years? Idiotic.

Ironic, considering these abilities came late in to the class history.

[Deleted]

Ironic, considering these abilities came late in to the class history.

Though demonology had Meta eight years ago, in the second expansion, Wrath. Not in there from the start, but not exactly late, either.

[tratra]

its true that lock is currently one of the ugliest class to play and blizz went out saying they are not gonna fix anything on 7.1.5 so yes... but its alright their active sub numbers have dropped to WOD levels so I guess they realize its about time to bin the game.

[Deleted]

Its just its a shell of what it was before, even top pvpers like Snutz left playing lock (was considered an alt in blizzcon) because of how boring it is.

[VooDsXo]

What I am mad at most is Blizzard's attitude, they say one thing and do the other, they kept saying warlock has issues but refuse to fix them, they said they want double down on our tankyness, but they nerf our demon skin, they say will give back more unitiy and more baseline ablitiy but all they did is give those back to mages and hunters. Lie after lie, over look after over look, nerf after nerf, thats all the ever do to warlocks.

This isn't about damage, meters, or even bad class design, it is the "take it or leave it" attitude that made a lot of people want to quit the game.

So stop using "logs" to try to prove warlocks are in ok spot, because even if it shows that we do (which we are totally not), the class is still a complete mess, and hell the play with.

At some point this literally has to stop, you didn't make the game, and because of that should have 0 say in its development. Take it or leave it SHOULD be the way ALL games are made, reporting something working improperly is not the same as the class not playing how you want. I've played tons of games, and when the community was less involved we had more popular games period.