A Simple Argument for the Tinker Class

[Deleted]

Why do people want a class like this so badly? You'll just be AN ENGINEER!

A class that revolves around engineering and mechanical weapons is a little different to a profession that doesn't really do anything combat-wise.

[TriHard]

Hunter lore and design doesn't jive with Tinker lore and potential design. That's quite evident in the Hunter abilities and talents which are clearly nature/animal derived.

Nah man, they have grenades, tar traps, mech pets, the whole BM artifact is all mech / ulduar inspired, explosives, sticky bombs.

Tinker is just one of those things that you can say with certainty ain't gonna happen. Besides, we also have engineering which adds even more elements to each class that choose that profession.

[Teriz]

Nah man, they have grenades, tar traps, mech pets, the whole BM artifact is all mech / ulduar inspired, explosives, sticky bombs.

Which is the equivalent of saying that Paladins and Death Knights are unnecessary because Warriors have plate armor and can use swords imbued with Shadow or Holy magic.

[Ielenia]

Sorry, I missed this response...

There's an alternative way you could look at it;

Blizzard could potentially wish for Goblins and Gnomes to become more popular, and simply base an expansion on them in an attempt to increase their popularity.

But if the reason of their unpopularity is not their 'lack of lore', said expansion would do basically nothing to make them more popular, and it could potentially backfire on the expansion as well. You have to understand that 'lack of lore' is not one of the major reasons why people don't like goblins and gnomes. There are a myriad of other reasons.

[Thimagryn]

So Tinkers = normal people; Engineers = mentally handicapped people who are completely devoid of original thoughts?

Honestly, how can't you see the gigantic stupidity that is that argument? "One creates stuff, the other doesn't"? Seriously?

Well you understand what a strawman is right?

Here I am me explaining how Engineers like to follow blueprints, and there you are punching the strawman because you think he called Engineers mentally retarded.

So I'll amuse you. Yes, I can see how gigantically stupid that argument is. I'm glad that wasn't my argument.

I'm glad my explanation was a completely rational Tinkers = Adventurers and Inventors who specialize in Technology, Engineers = Skilled Artisans who specialize in Technology. Rational people also tend to know the difference between a Profession and a Class and wouldn't need this explanation.

[Teriz]

But if the reason of their unpopularity is not their 'lack of lore', said expansion would do basically nothing to make them more popular, and it could potentially backfire on the expansion as well. You have to understand that 'lack of lore' is not one of the major reasons why people don't like goblins and gnomes. There are a myriad of other reasons.

I never said it was a lack of lore. I said it was because their current class configurations seem out of place based on the lore of their respective races. I would argue that a lack of lore isn't the problem. Goblins and Gnomes actually have a ton of lore, which makes them seem more and more out of place both when compared to the other races, and the classes that players can choose from.

[Ielenia]

Well you understand what a strawman is right?

Here I am me explaining how Engineers like to follow blueprints, and there you are punching the strawman because you think he called Engineers mentally retarded.

You said that 'tinkers invent, engineers follow patterns', you didn't explain why engineers are somehow incapable of inventing, themselves!

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I never said it was a lack of lore. I said it was because their current class configurations seem out of place based on the lore of their respective races. I would argue that a lack of lore isn't the problem. Goblins and Gnomes actually have a ton of lore, which makes them seem more and more out of place both when compared to the other races, and the classes that players can choose from.

I don't think goblins and gnomes have any less lore than worgen, forsaken, draenei, blood elves, tauren, etc, basically, most races that aren't humans, orcs or trolls.

[clevin]

Difficulty to balance isn't a reason to not add more classes into the game. .

How many classes are enough? 20? 40? 100? At some point you're squeezing a new class concept in some tight niche and struggling to explain why it's different from existing classes.

[Thimagryn]

You said that 'tinkers invent, engineers follow patterns', you didn't explain why engineers are somehow incapable of inventing, themselves!

They're not incapable. They intentionally focus on applying their technological skills on machines that already exist instead of creating something of their own design. The idea of mastering a profession is being trained and having the aptitude to read and follow schematics. They can customize things to a certain extent (ie Tinkering on your Goggles) but is otherwise incomparable to someone who dedicates themselves to the practice, someone like Mekkatorque. All in all, engineering exists as a secondary profession to their main class. They are still first and foremost Priests, Paladins, Hunters and Rogues. The main focus of every class is to hone their skills, not become inventors of new technology.

This doesn't need any real explanation any more than asking why your highly skilled Engineer can't train other people. They have better things to do.

However, there can exist individuals who DO dedicate themselves to being the best users of technology. That is the domain of a Technology Class. Mekkatorque is a representative of someone who dedicates themself to mastering Technology, not just someone who follows schematics and creates things that every other engineer makes.

[Teriz]

I don't think goblins and gnomes have any less lore than worgen, forsaken, draenei, blood elves, tauren, etc, basically, most races that aren't humans, orcs or trolls.

I wasn't comparing them to other races. I'm saying that we have a lot of lore surrounding Gnomes and Goblins and that lore doesn't completely jive with their current class choices. Based on their racial lore, they should have a technology-based class so that players can immerse themselves deeper into those races. As it stands now, it's fairly odd that you can transverse the game world (and starting in a hi-tech city), run into numerous Gnomes and Goblins who are fully dedicated to technology, yet you (as a Gnome or Goblin) cannot.

Goblins and Gnomes being able to use mechanical pets, and Goblins having mechanical totems helps, but an entire class dedicated to tech would do a lot more for those races.

[Schattenlied]

Take Warriors, for instance. Warrior class fantasy is all about two things: Armor and Weapons.

Their fantasy is about the martial application of weapons and armor without the use of magic.

Tinker's fantasy is literally just engineering... Engineers make and use their bombs and gadgets already, a tinker class wouldn't add anything to that... Their fantasy can't be the martial application of engineering bombs and gadgets because the engineering profession already does that.

[Mechazod]

I could see a Tinker class working fine if those Blingtron messages actually are hints at something planned down the line for an underground expansion that would probably involve a bunch of Titan facilities and the appearance of Undermine.

[Teriz]

Their fantasy is about the martial application of weapons and armor without the use of magic.

Tinker's fantasy is literally just engineering... Engineers make and use their bombs and gadgets already, a tinker class wouldn't add anything to that... Their fantasy can't be the martial application of engineering bombs and gadgets because the engineering profession already does that.

Actually it isn't, because Engineering weapons do little damage and you can't use those toys and gimmicks to fulfill a role in a group. The purpose behind engineering is to craft trinkets, toys, and tools for general consumption. You're essentially a walking hardware store.

The Tinker fantasy is an inventor who utilizes technology to make themselves equal to the most powerful mage, or the strongest warrior. Engineering does not fulfill that fantasy.

[Thimagryn]

Their fantasy is about the martial application of weapons and armor without the use of magic.

Tinker's fantasy is literally just engineering... Engineers make and use their bombs and gadgets already, a tinker class wouldn't add anything to that... Their fantasy can't be the martial application of engineering bombs and gadgets because the engineering profession already does that.

Actually, that is part of their fantasy. It's not simply about martial application of bombs, it's about specializing and mastering their use.

An Engineer, no matter how high his skill level is, can't make Solid Dynamite deal more damage at any higher level. If they want to deal more damage, they must have the training, resources and skill level to create Saronite Bombs.
A Tinker improves his skill and use as he gains experience. He doesn't swap out his Xplodium Charge for another type of bomb, he hones his skill and can improve his demolition skills through his Talents and Artifact weapons.

The difference in application is the difference between an Herbalist who uses Lifeblood and a Resto Druid.

[TriHard]

Which is the equivalent of saying that Paladins and Death Knights are unnecessary because Warriors have plate armor and can use swords imbued with Shadow or Holy magic.

Not really, don't choose to be salty because the class of your dreams won't happen. Cmon

[Ginantonicus]

I am not forced to do anything no. I agree. But it keeps cluttering my front page.

The path to inner peace is found within three little words. Not my problem. You should try it some time.

Just read my post previous to the one you quoted. I explain why this 'crafting stuff =/= using stuff' argument doesn't really work.

No it dosent work. Back before legion my argument against DH was that Blizz would strip Warlocks and Rouges etc. of some of their abilities to create room for DH and then the next expansion we would see Dh. As we know Blizz didn't do that. It means Blizz can do the same to engineering and release tinkers in the same manner.

On another note I find this video appropriate for this thread.

[Traveler Voltin]

Ielenia. Why do you even care?

[Teriz]

Not really, don't choose to be salty because the class of your dreams won't happen. Cmon

Yes really.

Hunters having a couple of grenade talents and a gun from Uldaar (and please note, you can't use both within the same spec) doesn't turn them into Tinkers any more than Warriors walking around in Holy or Shadow imbued gear makes them Death Knights or Paladins. Hunters are trackers, survivalists, and marksmen who use animals and their environment to help them in battle. Tinkers are inventors and technological warriors who use cutting edge tech of their own design.

It's like saying Rexxar and Helix Blackfuse are the same type of character.

[Ielenia]

They're not incapable. They intentionally focus on applying their technological skills on machines that already exist instead of creating something of their own design.

There's no logic there! No common sense! Why would anyone not want to invent something if they had the chance to!? Seriously, this "tinkers invent, engineers follow schematics" is really a nonsensical argument! Nobody chooses a career path with the intention of being just your average middle-of-the-pack (or lower) representative of your career. "I'm going to be a medic! Not a good medic, though. Just an average medic. Hm, maybe a slightly bad medic, instead? I guess anywhere average or below is fine, but not above average! No, sir, not at all above average! Never above average!"

They can customize things to a certain extent (ie Tinkering on your Goggles) but is otherwise incomparable to someone who dedicates themselves to the practice, someone like Mekkatorque.

Why!? What keeps an engineer from dedicating themselves like the engineer Mekkatorque?

This doesn't need any real explanation any more than asking why your highly skilled Engineer can't train other people. They have better things to do.

Yeah, things like not inventing! Gotta work hard to keep those original, inventive thoughts out of your mind, y'know!?

You're making a terrible, unsustainable argument in an attempt to create a distinction between Tinkers and Engineers, and the simple idea that this is your best argument for them being two separate things, actually only makes the idea that the two are the exact same thing, even stronger.

[Teriz]

I just don't see "Tinkers" Being relative to any possible story

A Titan weapon/artifact is found within Undermine and the Horde and the Alliance have to work together in order to stop it from destroying the world.

There you go.