Blizzard apologises for communication breakdown

[Stormspellz]

I love the problems that has existed for shamans / locks and pvp in alpha to still be around.

I'm just waiting for the horrible state of things to be blamed on lack of feedback in alpha/beta again.

[skitzin]

The root of the problem here is the bloody players.

Players are whiny, ungrateful little shits who dont deserve communication in the first place. Id rather blizzard focus on making the game than try to give frequent updates to the playerbase which will just be taken out of context and overanalysed to the extreme.

Having said that there has been a steady supply of legitimate comments, feedback and suggestions from a miriad of players going all the way back to Legion Alpha that were ignored or dismissed by the WoW dev team(s). This has resulted in several issues for multiple classes manifesting themselves. In some cases becoming worse or bigger issue then they were originally based on the actions taken by Blizzard.

Additionally, after observing the clear and quick responses that one class community got and the lack of responses that others have it isn't hard to see why some people are getting nasty.

Sure there is a population of people who are quite toxic but then those people are found everywhere in society. And sadly Blizzard shouldn't be treating those who aren't in that population with the same indifference as those who are.

[threads]

lol the idiot white knights ITT

they wouldn't have to apologize if they didn't ignore mountains of feedback from the year-long alpha that left half the classes in the dumpster.

Infracted

[shoegazing]

Class design is in a mess for sure, but it only a couple specs & really most of those specs are doing fine in terms of competitiveness & numbers. But so boring to play.

They have to add alittle more flavour to the specs, but if they do that than you have the bads who will whine & cry that their class / spec is to hard to play & than say Blizzard ruined it. I would if their was 3 ways you could play a spec & everything was competitive, but we all know in a game were people want to min/max their is only 1 choice the one that does the most damage. Even if it is 1% it is still the best.

I'm not talking about damage meters i'm talking about fundamental gameplay. you seem like someone who is very focused on raiding, which is great and i used to do that too, but if you look outside raiding you see that many classes were stripped of 50+% of their nondamage and utility abilities. my subtlety rogue in the past 2 expansions lost gouge, garrote, shiv, poisons (many of them), preparation, premeditation, hemorrhage (used the bleed for denying restealths and bandages), tricks of the trade (used to increase my teammate's burst), slice and dice (god the rotation feels so painfully slow without the extra energy from snd), shadow walk (used for sapping other stealthies), and more.

From the standpoint of a 2500 xp PvPer it feels like this class was designed for cavemen to play. It really is that thoroughly stupid.

And Legion PvP more generally is also thoroughly terrible. The most successful team compositions are those that run 2x melees and just do their PvE rotation 24/7, never untargeting the weakest member of your team. The balance is terrible; the dumbing down of gameplay relative to previous expansions is even worse.

[whywhatwhowhenhow]

They got what they wanted, alot of box sales same as WoD. Now they don't give a shit.

[Wildpantz]

Maybe they will learn to communicate when bad players learn what ptr stands for. Also its a few specs thats weird and we got to powerful to fast.

[Krille]

There needs to be repercussions for doing bad design decisions. If Celestalon is the head of class design then his head should be rolling out of the door first. If Blizzard think it's fine that they've got to do a .5 patch just to correct the MOUNTAIN of problems with current class design then it's a company spiraling into bigger problems. Fire Celestalon, not because it's necessarily going to get better instantly, but to send a message. Not all communication has to be done in a dialog or even as written one-way.

[Aggrophobic]

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...36?page=10#184


You know the communication is bad when Ghostcrawler is discussing WoW more at the moment than the current WoW dev team combined. Do you think that we should expect improved developer communication in the future? If so, in what ways? Or is this just more PR spin?

Can't spend all day talking to players. Won't be any time left for actually making the changes.

Blizzard might do some stupid stuff at times but they are usually rather good at communicating and with the Q&As they have had befor and after launch of Legion I really think they are doing a better job at it than ever befor.

[TyrianFC]

They'e said that before. You know what helps? Fixing the damn communication. This is the 3rd or 4th time Watcher has said that

Shows how little you know.

From vanilla to now: During the periods Blizzard communicated the most heavily and frequently , to the period where they didnt communicate at all for many months (when I think Ghostcrawler stopped posting on the official forums for like 9 months during cata) - players were equally whiny ungrateful shits throughout both extremes.

Please dont pretend more communication 'helps' anything. It actually does the opposite. The more Blizzard communicate, the more ungrateful and stupid the community becomes. We even start seeing things like "X class got Y most posts over the last Z days - totally Class A bias".

Ps - outdated footer means nothing. Would you feel better if I updated it to show im ilvl 872 equipped with an active subscription? Your laughably stupid post is reflective of the sort of rampant stupidity that Blizzard has to deal with.

The less time Blizzard spends trying to communicate and talk civilly to melodramatic clowns like this, the more time they can spend on developing the game.

[Exer]

The root of the problem here is the bloody players.

Players are whiny, ungrateful little shits who dont deserve communication in the first place. Id rather blizzard focus on making the game than try to give frequent updates to the playerbase which will just be taken out of context and overanalysed to the extreme.

I disagree. This lack of communication is nothing new, and we've been served the same argument (working on it) for years. Yet, here we are again. It's as if they thought we'd forget, but unfortunately for them, we don't. They're trying with their Q&A, but their timing never works.. ie: Q&As don't address issues while the PTR is up, and it's not really a discussion, rather just clarifications once a patch or design is done.

[Deleted]

The root of the problem here is the bloody players.

Players are whiny, ungrateful little shits who dont deserve communication in the first place. Id rather blizzard focus on making the game than try to give frequent updates to the playerbase which will just be taken out of context and overanalysed to the extreme.

well by the looks of it you dnt even play wow, level 85, seriously the devs are stupid speaking from a warriors point of view numerous times in wod alpha and beta we gave feedback nothing done and the same for legion and then ion hazzikostas even admitted they dnt listen to feedback and then said better late than never, well with the current status of fury on the PTR it seems never is there choice, there are alot of other classes that arent being heard cos of issues, please tell me how class design and problems is the players fault or are you just a typical blizz white knight who will defend them to the end, tbh its people like you who ruin the game cos if people didnt complain we wouldnt get change

[Super Kami Dende]

I'm just sick of people that seem to think Blizzard HAS to tell them every little thing they do. Have literally never seen another game company have a community so entitled to know everything that is going on constantly.

People should be happy they even get anything communication wise outside of Patch Notes.

[Deleted]

lol the idiot white knights ITT

they wouldn't have to apologize if they didn't ignore mountains of feedback from the year-long alpha that left half the classes in the dumpster.

agreed, all the care about is customers bank accounts they dnt give a fuck what we have to say and an apology now is
pathetic, if they want to change the playerbases mentality of them they should listen to us and fix issues ASAP not ignore feeback and say in a Q,A HURR DURR better late than never HURR DURR, i bet so many people wanted to punch ion hazzikostas when he talked about warrior feedback and better late than never

- - - Updated - - -

I'm just sick of people that seem to think Blizzard HAS to tell them every little thing they do. Have literally never seen another game company have a community so entitled to know everything that is going on constantly.

People should be happy they even get anything communication wise outside of Patch Notes.

we dnt want them to tell us everything they do we want the to fix issues that have been around for months and reported in the alpha and beta of wod and legion,
god such a white knight you dnt understand

[Bathory]

Definitely fault of the players and their witch hunts. I'd love more open communication but every time, EVERY TIME some dev comes out and says something it's either etched in stone by the players and must never EVER be changed or modified or it's "OH MY FUCKING GOD WHAT THE FUCK. FIRE SOMEONE".

We get the same bullshit "I'm paying for this so I can treat people like shit" + "this is their job so they should be used to being yelled at" mentality that just bleeds into any conversation that requires the SLIGHTEST bit of comprehension, change, or sacrifice from a player. Time and time again we hear the same response from devs within and outside of Blizzard. "We want to communicate but it's hard to do when the community is so volatile". If people were capable of having rational discussion, I guarantee this situation would resolve itself.

It's one thing to have issue, I know I've got a ton of em right now. But it's another to devolve into some child and start throwing a tantrum laced with personal insults then act shocked when they stop talking to you.

[rda]

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...36?page=10#184

"Just because a change shows up in a PTR build does not mean that it’s something the team views as a final design (or even a design we’re necessarily happy with). This has been especially true with 7.1.5, and we’ve done a poor job of communicating that thus far. We’d like to apologize for that failing, and it’s something we’re actively working to correct."

You know the communication is bad when Ghostcrawler is discussing WoW more at the moment than the current WoW dev team combined. Do you think that we should expect improved developer communication in the future? If so, in what ways? Or is this just more PR spin?

I don't want to say too much bad about Blizzard, because they've been showing good signs at Blizzcon and then with 7.1, but I will say this:

The blue is BS.

This is something like a 10th excuse on failing to communicate followed by no improvement. Quick, did they improve how they communicate? Not on conferences, on regular weeks, before making changes, after making changes, etc. Did they improve? No, they did not. The forums are as devoid of useful blues as ever. Nothing changed on that front in the last five years or so, perhaps longer. The only change was when GC left and after a short burst of activity from his replacements it went to the stale nothing that we have to this day.

They last part - "We’d like to apologize for that failing, and it’s something we’re actively working to correct." - is double BS. They don't mean to do anything regarding "working to correct" - they are just saying these words while doing zilch. Nobody cares whether their apology is even sincere - nothing is going to follow it, and everybody knows that.

Their communication is trash. It is not improving any time soon. It might not be reason enough to not play, obviously, but let's face the facts. This blue is BS.

[Deleted]

The root of the problem here is the bloody players.

Players are whiny, ungrateful little shits who dont deserve communication in the first place. Id rather blizzard focus on making the game than try to give frequent updates to the playerbase which will just be taken out of context and overanalysed to the extreme.

There is a bunch of players who do real testing and provide constructive feedback. Blizzard listens to those people and talks to them. Still doesn't mean they always implement things, but there is communication, respect and professionalism.

Then there's the bunch you're talking about - the rabid forum shitposting majority. The people who are extremely bitter about some silly little thing that happened to change their fotm class. The ones who are envious of "billion dollar companies" and think their constant shitty whiny posts constitutes as feedback, even though they don't have a single clue what they're talking about.

These are the people that would have gotten instabans on old Elitist Jerks boards. Whiny little shits who just go with information they've picked up from some shitty youtube channel and parrot it around like pure facts. So tired of those people.

I don't really give a fuck if Blizzard doesn't communicate. I don't need their communication in order to enjoy the game. Ion doesn't need to hold my hand every fucking night.

[Alvito]

Anybody that doesn't realize a PTR build isn't set in stone are getting mad at nothing. Even more so when it is the original series of information much like the sky is falling nonsense when 7.1.5 was data mined. Feedback is good to help with the testing sure, all the change this or I am going to quit nonsense is just spoiled brats throwing a tantrum.

[Charge me Doctor]

Communication isn't the problem, the current state of class design and Blizzard's inability to correct it is the problem. If there was a sign that they were learning from their mistakes then no one would care if they stay silent. Of course people are going to want answers when crap like Waylay makes it onto the PTR.

Communication is the problem. You know, since PTR is there for TESTING, blizzard should COMMUNICATE to their testers (aka players on PTR) why these changes are there. They deliberately broke couple of specs just to see which other sides they'll need to buff - it created an outrage not because they broke these specs, but because they didn't say why they broke then and what they have in plans.

See, things like "we want fire mages damage to be the same as live" doesn't go with players doing 30% less damage on PTR, right? The reasonable question comes to mind - "what the fuck did you do and why we do 30% less damage than on live while you said that damage will be the same?", and an answer should be "we nerfed problematic parts and need you to test it out for us to see which parts we need to buff to compensate" instead of fucking silence treatment

[TyrianFC]

There is a bunch of players who do real testing and provide constructive feedback. Blizzard listens to those people and talks to them. Still doesn't mean they always implement things, but there is communication, respect and professionalism.

Then there's the bunch you're talking about - the rabid forum shitposting majority. The people who are extremely bitter about some silly little thing that happened to change their fotm class. The ones who are envious of "billion dollar companies" and think their constant shitty whiny posts constitutes as feedback, even though they don't have a single clue what they're talking about.

These are the people that would have gotten instabans on old Elitist Jerks boards. Whiny little shits who just go with information they've picked up from some shitty youtube channel and parrot it around like pure facts. So tired of those people.

I don't really give a fuck if Blizzard doesn't communicate. I don't need their communication in order to enjoy the game. Ion doesn't need to hold my hand every fucking night.

Exactly.

The vast majority of players are like FurryFoxWolf in this very thread. They provide gems such as quoted from this very page, "i bet so many people wanted to punch ion hazzikostas... all the care about is customers bank accounts they dnt give a fuck what we have to say"

Whiny, melodramatic clowns exhibiting that behaviour simply dont deserve any communication - whatsoever. Thankyou for offering yourself up as proof, furryfoxwolf, as to why the players are the root of the problem (as I mentioned earlier).

- - - Updated - - -

Communication is the problem. You know, since PTR is there for TESTING, blizzard should COMMUNICATE to their testers (aka players on PTR) why these changes are there. They deliberately broke couple of specs just to see which other sides they'll need to buff - it created an outrage not because they broke these specs, but because they didn't say why they broke then and what they have in plans.

See, things like "we want fire mages damage to be the same as live" doesn't go with players doing 30% less damage on PTR, right? The reasonable question comes to mind - "what the fuck did you do and why we do 30% less damage than on live while you said that damage will be the same?", and an answer should be "we nerfed problematic parts and need you to test it out for us to see which parts we need to buff to compensate" instead of fucking silence treatment

Wake up from your silly dream for one minute. You basically want Blizzard to make a post reminding you that the sky is indeed blue.

The PTR is a snapchat of the many-in-progress builds full of experiments, changes, ideas - and Blizzard simply shouldnt waste resources to 'communicate all of the above' to their testers every time they wish to tweak change or fiddle with something.

If you are not adult enough to understand this, and you desperately want a update blog or tweet with every change, you shouldnt be on the ptr.

The Fire Mage thing is a great example of GOOD changes they are making to the class - with the majority of the playerbase too stupid to understand why, because they cant see past 'omg my dps is lower on ptr' for one minute to look at the bigger picture.

I dont need Blizzard to waste time telling me 'its ptr we are doing mechanics framework first followed by numerical tuning later'. because its fucking common sense.

If a sizable proportion of the playerbase is braindead monkeys, which clearly they are if you look at the mage forums recently, I dont want to see Blizzard attempting to waste time throwing peanuts at them and reminding them the sky is actually blue in attempts to communicate.

[Charge me Doctor]

Wake up from your silly dream for one minute. The PTR is a snapchat of the many-in-progress builds full of experiments, changes, ideas - and Blizzard simply shouldnt waste resources to 'communicate all of the above' to their testers every time they wish to tweak change or fiddle with something.

If you are not adult enough to understand this, and you desperately want a update blog or tweet with every change, you shouldnt be on the ptr.

The Fire Mage thing is a great example of GOOD changes they are making to the class - with the majority of the playerbase too stupid to understand why.

If you don't know how testing works - you are right. But blizzard either have to have their own testers, who are aware of why certain changes were maid (because without that you can't properly test things), or they completely oblivious of how testing is done (which is unlikely). Without knowing why certain changes are maid to something the only answer you can give is either "it works" or "it doesn't work".
You can argue with semantics here, and expect PTR testers to do what paid testers do for living, aka, figuring out what lead to this outcome - but this simply won't happen