Why are people here dismissive about Legion's complaints?

[Shadowman 747]

In terms of the actual content being put in the game, the raids, the quest, the story etc....Legion is definitely the best xpac so far. The Suramar weekly storyline is a masterstroke and it feels kind of like I'm playing a season of GoT.

The shitty things about this xpac are of course, all RNG-related. Gear is easier to get than ever, but getting the RIGHT gear is frustrating, especially trinkets which for some classes don't even have a viable option that comes out of raids. You have to continuously spam M+ and hope to get that one trinket out of the entire loot table of the dungeon you need, in a suitable Titanforged version for the content you do. In some cases, the base ilvl is fixed at a pretty low point because there isn't even a M+ option (Kara trinkets, Chaos Talisman from VH). Same with Relics and their specific traits, but at least some of those are raid drops for certain classes.

Legiondaries are the worst idea ever implemented into WoW. I say this as someone who has the BIS items for my class/spec, on 2 characters. The fact that you are stuck being less than optimal until you get your BIS is maddening. Woe be you if you want to change specs...

Of course that's the next problem. Artifacts and spec swapping. It's really painful in this xpac. I had to change from 29 traits into UH, literally 2 months of grinding down the drain, to Frost to be competitive and grind that weapon up (now 34 traits in). I got the Frost BIS bracers along the way so I will probably never play UH again because it's dumpster now. But that AP is now locked into that weapon and as a result, my Blood weapon is behind and I'm a less viable tank when it comes to doing M+ and fights where I have to play my OS because of it. While most people heap hatred upon those who exploited the AP bug, I did not because I completely understand why they would do it. Not that I would, but I can understand...and you likely don't unless you've had to swap specs. Which, judging from the 7.1.5 patch notes, will be a lot of players.

Which brings me to the worst part of Legion: class design and balance. It's horrendously bad. The funny thing is it wasn't this bad in beta, every class was in a good spot around April and while they had defined strengths and weaknesses, with some being arguably overpowered, none were in the absolute sad state they're in now. Then Blizzard did the typical knee-jerk buff/nerf cycle and ended up with a complete cluster going into live. They've been in damage control mode since, throwing out random and arbitrary buffs and nerfs to try and correct their mistakes.

They did not listen to a single, solitary word of the hundreds of pages of feedback on each class/spec, thousands of posts of extensive testing, number crunching, and real world scenarios from playing the game. Mages warned Blizzard that Fire Mages were going to be vastly powerful going live, DKs warned Blizzard that Unholy had a power surge at the start of the expansion and then had abysmal scaling going forward and that Frost was in dumpster state, that Blood was strong but had inherent flaws in active mitigation. Warriors told Blizzard how ridiculous the Fury 30% damage debuff was and that the class couldn't logically be tuned around that drawback for output, and that Ignore Pain for prot was an absolutely silly idea. These are of course a few examples, but Blizzard went ahead and did their own thing, and only changed course when the subs dropped off. They seem to enjoy putting themselves in damage control mode.

Honestly, content wise this is the best iteration of the game that has ever existed. Even this far into end game, it's still great to log in and have a ton of new, fresh stuff to do. It's just marred by so many other issues that we could end up with a WOD level disaster unless they get someone with a clue in charge of game system design soon.

probably the most thought out post on the topic i've seen. Legion as an expansion about content, not classes. i want to say that players who enjoy Legion, myself included, enjoy it for love of the wealth of content. those who don't are more attached to their characters.

As a semi-hardcore player, this expansion is a godsend to me. I don't care what class i'm playing, I want a playstyle that fits me, I found it in frost dk, and i want content to do while on a character I find fun. I think blizzard has made a colossal failure at class fantasy, toolkits, and balance. Any player who has historically played a class for flavor or past playstyles will find themselves potentially uprooted and out of place, hating their class or spec.

As someone who would play any class or spec based on my personal enjoyment of it, I'm really not affected by the massive negatives in legion. I'll play the game in almost any spec, purely because I enjoy the content of the game.

[DevilsAdvocate]

The absolute worst part about this expansion is grinding. WOD for all it's faults let you enjoy the game the way you wanted to with investments in garrison letting you focus on the part of the game you liked whether it was PvP or Raiding. Yes, it didn't have content but that is blizzard's fault, not an inherent game design issue.

This stupid expansion drags every damn thing out. All the people who play this game and have a mental problem love it because it lets them fill the misery of their lives with a steady stream of dopamine from fake, tiny achievements. But for those of us who actually have a fuller life, this expansion is absolutely horrid. I don't want to f*cking do the Suramar quest and I don't want to %$#(( be stuck with one character. I would like to play a few hours a week the way I like without having to grind for artifact power or class resources like a chump.

Legion is absolutely horrible and I feel sorry for all the kids and college students who get into this game. It will be a deep dark hole like Burning Crusade and Vanilla was. Just ask all the people who still play from those days: they are all horrible losers who haven't achieved anywhere near their potential in life.

[Lochton]

So I took a little month break because of how frustrated I was with the actual gameplay in Legion (class gameplay) and recently noticed many others on the WoW forums feel the same. There is a serious problem with classes that needs a big redesign imo to fix. Not to mention blizz ignoring the shit out of players (except mages so it seems?) so my question is, whys everyone here on MMOC ignoring that issue?

Legion is probably the most content and lorenrich expansion, yet it's totally ruined by class design choices and the retarded AP/AK system that makes respecting and rerolling a pain in the arse. Anytime it gets brought up you guys tear the OP a new one. Why?

Wouldn't say I ignore complaints I read, but if I see complaints about rerolling, or alts not going as fast to keep up with the ones whom has changed - I tend to laugh out. As for the all specific targeting people seem to have on mages, well, some get public reactions and some don't. Can't pin it on one class, or such. Many of the current designs, to me, seem fine though.

As for the AP/AK question. Follow up. If you feel behind, there's more WQ's to be done, more dungeons and more raids when it comes to alts. As for mains, I am not sure what part of the system is the overall problem. As a Holy/Ret Paladin, I've not had a problem with it.

Though, I would've rather see the AK part to be Account Bound so that alts have the increased speed, just not AP.

And the last part, well, many of the OP's tend to appear with a complaint that more or less falls under unintelligible or not supported by much. That, or moved to relevant section.

[Glorious Leader]

The absolute worst part about this expansion is grinding. WOD for all it's faults let you enjoy the game the way you wanted to with investments in garrison letting you focus on the part of the game you liked whether it was PvP or Raiding. Yes, it didn't have content but that is blizzard's fault, not an inherent game design issue.

This stupid expansion drags every damn thing out. All the people who play this game and have a mental problem love it because it lets them fill the misery of their lives with a steady stream of dopamine from fake, tiny achievements. But for those of us who actually have a fuller life, this expansion is absolutely horrid. I don't want to f*cking do the Suramar quest and I don't want to %$#(( be stuck with one character. I would like to play a few hours a week the way I like without having to grind for artifact power or class resources like a chump.

Legion is absolutely horrible and I feel sorry for all the kids and college students who get into this game. It will be a deep dark hole like Burning Crusade and Vanilla was. Just ask all the people who still play from those days: they are all horrible losers who haven't achieved anywhere near their potential in life.

Good news! Dont do the shutty fucking suramar quest. I fcuking hate suramar with a god damn passion. Its piss poor design and impossible to navigate. You dont need to participate in it however. In fact not doing is the best thing you can do if you want that conten removed.

[JaceDraccus]

So "liked" = "absolutely no complaints whatsoever" ?

That's so retarded as a twist and putting words in the mouth of someone, it just shows just how much bad faith you're having here.

Sigh.

No, my point was that there were complaints. And that there were times back then when gameplay was lacking. So saying only that 'people liked Vanilla through Wrath' is over-simplification. Not everyone did. Acting like it's only a problem NOW and was never a problem before is stupid.

[Tharkkun]

Good news! Dont do the shutty fucking suramar quest. I fcuking hate suramar with a god damn passion. Its piss poor design and impossible to navigate. You dont need to participate in it however. In fact not doing is the best thing you can do if you want that conten removed.

You're still angry about Suramar being tied to two dungeons that can't be queued for aren't you? LOL.

[Deleted]

You're still angry about Suramar being tied to two dungeons that can't be queued for aren't you? LOL.

I do have access to them as side effect of trying to keep up with crafting. Never set foot in any.
So you think that, somehow, fapping to two dungeons is cool? Keep thinking that. I like you that way.

[Deleted]

So everything whiners dislike, artifact grind, alts, leggies, class balance and so on. In my head it boils down to the term "beeing viable".

According to some posts here beeing viable means:
- Max out artifact (atleast lvl 35)
- Play a class/specc that's on top on rankings
- Have BiS leggies

A question: Who are you competing with?

And the often used phrase: "I get benched because bad RNG/bad specc/bad leggies". Not even the "pros" in Method & Serenity and other top guilds bitch about "beeing viable". And those are the players that actually COMPETE in this game.

And all this class balance nonsense. Yes players that can pull top rankings and numbers close to sims are gonna stack the theoretically strongest classes, but does that really affect Jims guild "Elite" that raids 2 times a week and are progressing on mythic Cenarius? Theoretical damage and actually damage when you play the game is two very different things. And i'm gonna guess that 95% of people posting here is not anywhere near the top damage their class can pull (including me). So that instead leaves us with play the class/specc you enjoy and get better instead of bitch and whine about class balance.

EDIT: Yeah forgot, you have to spam m+ to stay viable. Guess what, unless your in guild fighting for world/realm first, you don't have to do anything. Yes it will make progressing faster since players get more gear, but i'm sure that eventually you will kill whatever boss your on anyway. Again, who are you really competing with?

[Doombringer]

I haven't had many complaints about Legion yet, but then I do not play a Warlock. Apparently they are quite broken at the moment.

And I am a little irked by Watcher's recent response to them... i.e., "we may not talk about an issue if we do not have a solution." That isn't conducive to good communication. If you can acknowledge there is a problem internally, you should craft messaging to do so externally as well. Stating "we see this problem, we hear you, we don't have a fix but are working on it" early on goes a lot farther than silence and a belated "we knew it is an issue but we still have no idea how to fix."

If something is truly broken, you'll lose players or player-satisfaction either way ... but you'll lose it less quickly if you talk to the community more.

[Deleted]

Because the problem number one is: The game is great just rather exclusive because the content is interdependent so if you have no fun at the moment the most obvious reason is "the game just isn't for you". Blizzard is clearer then ever before in their vision about "how to play wow" hence making this conclusion more obvious then ever before.

[Tharkkun]

I do have access to them as side effect of trying to keep up with crafting. Never set foot in any.
So you think that, somehow, fapping to two dungeons is cool? Keep thinking that. I like you that way.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing. Fapping to dungeons. I'm enjoying the content laid out in front of me. But it's okay, they let off the hook. Instead of completing content which I'm sure you complained we didn't have enough of in WOD, you can now skip it on all your characters except one. GG right? I was also replying to person who won't step foot in a Mythic dungeon because mr lazy can't queue for it.

[Deleted]

Fanboyism, the bane of all critical thinking.

Hate-trains, the bane of all constructive criticism and discussion.
Labeling all the people who disagree with you as fanboys doesn't really help much either.

Each expansion has it's problems. That's always been the case. THis one's no different.

[Rojaha]

"How come crack addicts are dismissive about the negatives of crack?"

[Regalbeast]

Because people in here are mostly hardcore WoW addicts or Blizzard fanboys. They can't seem to think that there is anything wrong with the game (except their class, of course).

M+ is one example....people are SO protective of their endless supply of crack (M+) that they don't want to admit it needs to be gated or limited.

[Kuruption]

Probably because of how the complaints are brought up. I mean look at this guy:

Because people in here are mostly hardcore WoW addicts or Blizzard fanboys.

What a great way to start a debate!

But this is General Discussion, so it makes sense.

[saeros]

Because people in here are mostly hardcore WoW addicts or Blizzard fanboys. They can't seem to think that there is anything wrong with the game (except their class, of course).

M+ is one example....people are SO protective of their endless supply of crack (M+) that they don't want to admit it needs to be gated or limited.

the fun fact is that they even tried to gate them,with the key system.
not realizing that this system is basically the perfect environment for selling and buying boost.

[Regalbeast]

Probably because of how the complaints are brought up. I mean look at this guy:



What a great way to start a debate!

But this is General Discussion, so it makes sense.

Am I wrong?

[Renuts]

Because people in here are mostly hardcore WoW addicts or Blizzard fanboys. They can't seem to think that there is anything wrong with the game (except their class, of course).

M+ is one example....people are SO protective of their endless supply of crack (M+) that they don't want to admit it needs to be gated or limited.

The 30 page thread you made about this topic wasn't enough? Seriously? I don't spam M+, nor do I feel it necessary that I need to. You are just wrong. Please refer back to your 30 page thread to explain why this is.

[Deleted]

Because people in here are mostly hardcore WoW addicts or Blizzard fanboys. They can't seem to think that there is anything wrong with the game (except their class, of course).

M+ is one example....people are SO protective of their endless supply of crack (M+) that they don't want to admit it needs to be gated or limited.

Or it could simply be that some people don't care if other people can play all day and all night and instead focus on their own experience.
For me, i'm a low level mythic raider. Raid twice a week and currently 3/7M. Some weeks i do 1-2 M+, some weeks i don't even bother. It's not required to spam M+ even if you're in a guild with better progress than me if you're not aiming for competitive raiding, even if you feel like you "have to do it"...

So no, i don't think it needs to be limited. Let others do what they want to do! If they can't pace themselves or actually LIKE doing M+ all day, i say let them, it's their choice...

[lockybalboa]

This is a fansite after all, and there're lots of FBs unfortunately.