Protection legion Discussion

[Lysozyme]

Devastator isn't even close to Indomitable for survivability for a whole host of reasons. Unfortunately now that Revenge resets the cooldown on Shield Slam, Devastator will be a DPS increase when you have enough rage or enough parries to use Revenge on cooldown.

This is, naturally, subject to change; nothing is ever set in stone, much less right now. I for one hope that it changes and Devastator goes back (somehow) to being a 'pick this talent if you are bad or lazy', and never a viable good option.

[Deleted]

Devastator isn't even close to Indomitable for survivability for a whole host of reasons. Unfortunately now that Revenge resets the cooldown on Shield Slam, Devastator will be a DPS increase when you have enough rage or enough parries to use Revenge on cooldown.

This is, naturally, subject to change; nothing is ever set in stone, much less right now. I for one hope that it changes and Devastator goes back (somehow) to being a 'pick this talent if you are bad or lazy', and never a viable good option.

Why? I mean I am not saying we need an easy to play talent that's viable, for all I care make it harder to play but what's wrong about having a talent choice for situations where survivability is important (going Indom) and one for "low-ish" Mythic+ where you can survive without it and contribute to the speedrun with higher DPS?

[Rufio]

Am I the only one who likes Devastator? I like the choice of survivability vs dps talents. In a row with 3 talents for survivability everyone will cherrypick the "best" if they all address the same source (EHP/ragegen/healing).

I'm also ok with less buttons (esp. as a choice)... but thats maybe because i'm playing this game for 12 years and i'm not looking for apm challenges. I like a simple rotation and keep focusing on the encounter/group.

[Deleted]

@Rufio
I like Devastator too and totally support your last paragraph. Now that Revenge can proc SS too I'm actually quite happy with the 7.1.5 changes.

[potis]

Anyone defending Devastator as a choice over Indomitable shouldnt be playing Protection Warrior, there is no excuse for that pathetic talent apart from i would guess, daily quests and leveling for the "extra dps".

Or unless your max content is Mythic dungeons without any + and LFR then i suppose it could work if you outgear the place by 30 item levels.

Not even sure who in their right mind would pick Devastator over 25% extra HP, not even counting the 25% extra IP.

Maybe if it was in the place of Ultimatum instead of Best Served Cold and a new defensive talent was introduced that can be remotely close to Indomitable.

[Deleted]

Anyone defending Devastator as a choice over Indomitable shouldnt be playing Protection Warrior, there is no excuse for that pathetic talent apart from i would guess, daily quests and leveling for the "extra dps".

Or unless your max content is Mythic dungeons without any + and LFR then i suppose it could work if you outgear the place by 30 item levels.

Not even sure who in their right mind would pick Devastator over 25% extra HP, not even counting the 25% extra IP.

Maybe if it was in the place of Ultimatum instead of Best Served Cold and a new defensive talent was introduced that can be remotely close to Indomitable.

If you cannot survive a Mythic +2 to at least +7 (bar certain affixes) without Indomitable mayb you shouldn't be playing Protection Warrior. Please note that I wouldn't phrase so aggressively if you had not started the same way

If you can tank content (however high you can) without Indomitable there is no reason to pick Inodmitable over a DPS increase, because the DPS increase will help your group clear the content faster. You still have indomitable for the content where you need it.

[potis]

If you cannot survive a Mythic +2 to at least +7 (bar certain affixes) without Indomitable mayb you shouldn't be playing Protection Warrior. Please note that I wouldn't phrase so aggressively if you had not started the same way

If you can tank content (however high you can) without Indomitable there is no reason to pick Inodmitable over a DPS increase, because the DPS increase will help your group clear the content faster. You still have indomitable for the content where you need it.

Yes, the 20K DPS increase is the problem of groups and your pathetic prot warrior DPS will make the difference

Defending such a shit talent on that row is a waste of my time to even discuss it.

[Deleted]

Yes, the 20K DPS increase is the problem of groups and your pathetic prot warrior DPS will make the difference

Defending such a shit talent on that row is a waste of my time to even discuss it.

The question is why you would not take the 20K DPS increase.

If you survive without Indomitable then Indomitable gives you.... nothing. Because all it does is give you survivability.
So in that case the choice for what you get out of this talent row is: Nothing or a 20K DPS increase.

A good tank will hold aggro and survive. A great tank will provide his group with more than a punching bag.

EDIT: Just to clarify: Indomitable is a great talent, I use it a lot but in situations where you don't need it it's a wasted talent slot.

[Rufio]

A good tank will hold aggro and survive. A great tank will provide his group with more than a punching bag.

This 100%! It's not vanilla or tbc, Tanks/Healers do DPS.
It's great to have a choice.
Doing WQ/HCs/low lvl M+? Go for DPS-Talent
Highlvl content (M/H Raids, M+)? Go for Suv-Talent

I'd rather have a real choice in a talent row for the content i do as to alwalys pick the best talent for all i'm doing.

[potis]

The question is why you would not take the 20K DPS increase.

If you survive without Indomitable then Indomitable gives you.... nothing. Because all it does is give you survivability.
So in that case the choice for what you get out of this talent row is: Nothing or a 20K DPS increase.

A good tank will hold aggro and survive. A great tank will provide his group with more than a punching bag.

EDIT: Just to clarify: Indomitable is a great talent, I use it a lot but in situations where you don't need it it's a wasted talent slot.

Or you know, take Indomitable, tank another pack , do 100K extra dps cause of that, since you are doing easy content.

As i said, no experienced warrior would ever consider that pathetic waste of a talent.

[Deleted]

I am sorry, my humble self will now bow before your infinite wisdom. Peace out.

[Toybox]

Serious question...

Why are some people (both on this forum & the official forums) calling Devastator the easy/newbie option, as if our current rotation is some unfathomable challenge & insanely taxing to pull off mechanically?

[Deleted]

Serious question...

Why are some people (both on this forum & the official forums) calling Devastator the easy/newbie option, as if our current rotation is some unfathomable challenge & insanely taxing to pull off mechanically?

Well, it's not (the current rotaion is not a great challenge) but it is a little bit more "engaging" with weaving of FR, etc.
With Devastator and the "loss" of FR (baked into Vengeance) your rotation basically turns into 2 buttons that you press when off cooldown.

Now I don't think that it's as big of a deal as some people make it but it IS simpler, you can't deny that.

[Toybox]

Well, it's not (the current rotaion is not a great challenge) but it is a little bit more "engaging" with weaving of FR, etc.
With Devastator and the "loss" of FR (baked into Vengeance) your rotation basically turns into 2 buttons that you press when off cooldown.

Now I don't think that it's as big of a deal as some people make it but it IS simpler, you can't deny that.

Ultimatum was predictable - Revenge resets aren't. Add to that Revenge being on the GCD makes weaving with IP more of a choice than FR>IP ever was.

[Deleted]

The GCD isn't much of a choice since IP doesn't have one.

And how was Ultimatum predictable outside of BC?
I'm sorry I am with you that people make way too much of an issue out of this but you can't possibly argue that the "new" rotation is harder to pull off than the current one.

[Toybox]

It's more of an issue than it is now. Your IP is running low, you have Shield Slam available, you FR/SS/IP instantly without thought... At this point, it's just instinct. Same scenario, but you have to actually choose between Shield Slam & Revenge > FR.

Shield Slam is the only time Ultimatum could proc. You couldn't predict if it was going to proc, but you knew exactly when it could proc... Sorry, my wording is terrible. Revenge can pretty much proc at any time with no warning.

Neither are hard to pull off, but the new one offers more choice, and I don't see it being easier than the current one at all.

[eksdra]

It's more of an issue than it is now. Your IP is running low, you have Shield Slam available, you FR/SS/IP instantly without thought... At this point, it's just instinct. Same scenario, but you have to actually choose between Shield Slam & Revenge > FR.

Shield Slam is the only time Ultimatum could proc. You couldn't predict if it was going to proc, but you knew exactly when it could proc... Sorry, my wording is terrible. Revenge can pretty much proc at any time with no warning.

Neither are hard to pull off, but the new one offers more choice, and I don't see it being easier than the current one at all.

Wouldn't you have that same scenario without Devastator in 7.1.5, except you have one less button to push overall? I think people are defining easier as "less APM".

[Valech]

Ultimatum was predictable - Revenge resets aren't. Add to that Revenge being on the GCD makes weaving with IP more of a choice than FR>IP ever was.

Ultimatum outside of Bc wasn´t predictable.
Weaving IP is not a choice. It combines the functionality of devestate (fishing for a procc) and the benefit of FR (lowering IP cost) into one button. You don´t lose out.

[Toybox]

Wouldn't you have that same scenario without Devastator in 7.1.5, except you have one less button to push overall? I think people are defining easier as "less APM".

Yep, pretty much.

Ultimatum outside of Bc wasn´t predictable.
Weaving IP is not a choice. It combines the functionality of devestate (fishing for a procc) and the benefit of FR (lowering IP cost) into one button. You don´t lose out.

I worded it better in a later post, I think. It isn't predictable, but you knew exactly when it could happen (after SS). Revenge could happen at any time.

[Valech]

I worded it better in a later post, I think. It isn't predictable, but you knew exactly when it could happen (after SS). Revenge could happen at any time.

It is an assumptions, but I believe we will have procced revenges more often then procced FR. Even more so, if you tank several adds. But yes. In theory, revenge could happen at any time.