[Feral] Legion Discussion

[teddabear]

I am curious on what you think would be an acceptable damage amount for FB? I have seen crits on this ability for 500k-800k damage which is a lot.

Just a question.



It can be really frustrating. I have had a couple of fights in EN where Ashmanes Bite only proced once over a 3-5 minute fight.

That depends on a lot of factors. The biggest is ilvl, the faster combo points the more you need to be able to efficiently translate them into damage. Right now because of the way Ashamane's Bite works you just overwrite Rips praying for a proc. I consider that somewhat degenerate gameplay and Shadow Thrash was nerfed severely due to the same degenerate gameplay.

Even so combo point generation will eventually reach a point where you need FB to do respectable damage or it will effect scaling. I don't know what ilvl that is but it will happen at some point in this expansion. Sabertooth has a big impact too and lowers the amount of damage FB can do. The preferable solution to me is nerfing Sabertooth to extend Rip by X seconds and buff FB. In my opinion weaving in Ferocious Bites is more interesting gameplay than overwriting Rips and praying for an Ashamane's Bite proc.

I would also be in favor of trading some damage from Ashamane's Bite to Shadow Thrash but I doubt that will happen.

[Exerionx]

At this point I absolutely despise Ashamane's Rip. The ability is too random for something that makes up >10% of your dps.

(H) Ursoc last night - 97% rip uptime, 28% ashamane's rip uptime. 7 casts to get the 1st AR, followed by 18 casts to get the 2nd AR, followed by 28 casts to get the 3rd AR, and 5 more to get the last AR right before he died. No refreshes during each AR, either (time compared - not expecting a "refreshed" log).

And this was with pooling and with frequent rip refreshes. Uptime would have likely been ~20% had I not.

That's essentially the story of every pull I'm below ~35% AR uptime. You can have minor influence on the uptime if it procs, but when you're going 20-30 casts (or more) between procs there's nothing you can do to salvage it and your dps will be dumpstered as a result.

What's the point of putting a giant rng element on top of the most intense rotation in the game? gah

I can sympathize with you on Ashmane's Rip tbh. Times where I've tried my hardest to pool really well and have tight uptime on Rip / Rake etc, but still have really shit uptime on Ashmane's Rip because of RNG makes me pretty upset.

[Lucrece]

I can sympathize with you on Ashmane's Rip tbh. Times where I've tried my hardest to pool really well and have tight uptime on Rip / Rake etc, but still have really shit uptime on Ashmane's Rip because of RNG makes me pretty upset.

We heard you like your RNG class mechanics on top of your RNG legendaries on top of your RNG weekly mythic chests that may yield totally useless jewelry given our shitty secondary stat balance. Enjoy!

-Blizzard XOXO

[teddabear]

At this point I absolutely despise Ashamane's Rip. The ability is too random for something that makes up >10% of your dps.

It was mentioned multiple times in the Beta forum.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmlXU4uK5rA

[Meanshield]

Just cuz im unsure, does SR improve the damage of Moonfire? Initial damage and dot?

[Hobbes0773]

Just cuz im unsure, does SR improve the damage of Moonfire? Initial damage and dot?

Yep. All of it. SR increases all damage.

[Shadowsongs]

That depends on a lot of factors. The biggest is ilvl, the faster combo points the more you need to be able to efficiently translate them into damage. Right now because of the way Ashamane's Bite works you just overwrite Rips praying for a proc. I consider that somewhat degenerate gameplay and Shadow Thrash was nerfed severely due to the same degenerate gameplay.

Even so combo point generation will eventually reach a point where you need FB to do respectable damage or it will effect scaling. I don't know what ilvl that is but it will happen at some point in this expansion. Sabertooth has a big impact too and lowers the amount of damage FB can do. The preferable solution to me is nerfing Sabertooth to extend Rip by X seconds and buff FB. In my opinion weaving in Ferocious Bites is more interesting gameplay than overwriting Rips and praying for an Ashamane's Bite proc.

I would also be in favor of trading some damage from Ashamane's Bite to Shadow Thrash but I doubt that will happen.

The updated Sabertooth talent in ptr increase FB damage by 15% will have to wait and see how that fare against Jagged wounds
But i bet it is the difference will be just about 1% in overall damage vs. jagged wounds wich account for around 4% damage

[Zanzha]

(spoiler) it's s till not very good, though numbers tuning is still to go, but honestly hope it doesn't get much more.

[Triplebuses]

Hi,

I've read several times that it's a DPS increase to aim at TF buffed Ashamane's Frenzy, but I struggle to find the best way to sync the two abilities with one at 30s CD and the other at 75s CD.

Another questioning : on mobs that will die quick (<10s) is it worth to apply a 1/2 CP RIP for the armour debuff ?

Any advice ?

[Deleted]

Hey guys. First of all I tend to say that I like the feral's current state. Can't see why people are complaining when we have really good ST damage, decent sustained and bursty AoE and a good utility. Maybe it's a bit RNG'y but overall despite the t19 boni at first glance I like it so far even though performing really really well seems to depend on having all the legendaries/trinkets to swap them accordingly to the situation.

My question is the following : which opener are you guys using ? I've seen lots of ferals use lots of different openers, and since the beginning of Legion I'm using the following :

- Regrowth
- Stealth
- Prepot
- Rake
- SR
- Berserk + TF
- Ashamane's Frenzy
(- Moonfire if taken)
- Shred to 5 CP
(- Regrowth if procced by the first SR)
- Rip
- Rake
- Shred to 5 CP
- Regrowth
- Rip
And so on (if I can recall correctly all the actions being used in the 15s of the Berserk. Well, you get the idea). So I always thought this opener was okay but I can't seem to reach what I've seen other ferals reach at pull (800k-1m+ dps). So... Which one are you guys using and how good are the results ?

[wrathblade]

Wish blizzard just sad fu it procs on a cast rip instead now
No more rng for having it proc at 5seconds remaining.

[ghostydog]

Hi,

I've read several times that it's a DPS increase to aim at TF buffed Ashamane's Frenzy, but I struggle to find the best way to sync the two abilities with one at 30s CD and the other at 75s CD.

Another questioning : on mobs that will die quick (<10s) is it worth to apply a 1/2 CP RIP for the armour debuff ?

Any advice ?

You can sometimes delay either TF or AF to get them sync'd, but it will be a loss if it makes you lose a use over the fight. If you know fight length (eg it's farm and you're reclearing consistently) then you can figure out how many uses of each you have and figure out where you can afford to delay. If doing it by feel, my rule of thumb is to hold AF if TF is coming back up in <10s, else to just use it on CD.

My question is the following : which opener are you guys using ? I've seen lots of ferals use lots of different openers, and since the beginning of Legion I'm using the following :

- Regrowth
- Stealth
- Prepot
- Rake
- SR
- Berserk + TF
- Ashamane's Frenzy
(- Moonfire if taken)
- Shred to 5 CP
(- Regrowth if procced by the first SR)
- Rip
- Rake
- Shred to 5 CP
- Regrowth
- Rip
And so on (if I can recall correctly all the actions being used in the 15s of the Berserk. Well, you get the idea). So I always thought this opener was okay but I can't seem to reach what I've seen other ferals reach at pull (800k-1m+ dps). So... Which one are you guys using and how good are the results ?

Opener isn't that important, and I suspect some of the really high opening spikes you've seen come from ferals running Cinidaria — I raid with another feral, and with belt I reach 1.1m whereas he's stuck at 800k, both of us equal ilvl.

But fwiw my opener runs RG > prowl > rake > moonfire > zerk > TF > SR > AF > shred to 5 > RG if PS > rip.

[davidrm15]

I have a simple question, with potion is better old war or prolonged power???

[ghostydog]

Old war is best.

[exochaft]

Off-spec kitty curiosity question: is it supposed to be fairly common to have to use a combination of Shred/Rake five times for five combo points? I've been going kitty for Guarm since other tank doesn't have a viable off-spec weapon, and I was noticing that I kept having dry spells of OoC in combination with combo point generators not critting. Outside of Berserk/TF/AF being up, it's feels like absolute murder when timers collide even while pooling energy before finishers.

Kitty gear has baseline 40% crit, tried going Blood Scent but still ran into this issue. Getting to execute phase felt even worse between SR and FB, perhaps it's the lack of a kitty legendary. Seems like the gloves or ring would help immensely with this issue. On the plus side, despite all this my kitty damage is really good. Just wondering if the playstyle is more of a hassle than I remember.

P.S. - Yes, AB annoys me to no end... my current combo point generation issue doesn't help.

[lotj]

Off-spec kitty curiosity question: is it supposed to be fairly common to have to use a combination of Shred/Rake five times for five combo points? I've been going kitty for Guarm since other tank doesn't have a viable off-spec weapon, and I was noticing that I kept having dry spells of OoC in combination with combo point generators not critting. Outside of Berserk/TF/AF being up, it's feels like absolute murder when timers collide even while pooling energy before finishers.

It happens (even with the gloves) and that's why you refresh SR & Rip early. If your timers are colliding then you had a greedy FB one or two cycles ago.

Unless you have a lot of haste, the instances you're using FB outside of execute / berserk are so low you should probably forget about it until you're more comfortable with the rotation.

[exochaft]

It happens (even with the gloves) and that's why you refresh SR & Rip early. If your timers are colliding then you had a greedy FB one or two cycles ago.

Unless you have a lot of haste, the instances you're using FB outside of execute / berserk are so low you should probably forget about it until you're more comfortable with the rotation.

I don't use FB outside of execute while always opting to refresh Rip/SR early, and the occasion still occurs. The problem is likely if there is a combo point dry spell, the amount of pandemic extension will likely be less, which is what would cause a timer collision eventually if the dry spell lasts too long.

[Exerionx]

But fwiw my opener runs RG > prowl > rake > moonfire > zerk > TF > SR > AF > shred to 5 > RG if PS > rip.

How come you're not using MF after the TF for the increased damage?

[ghostydog]

That opener is a bit RNG in terms of getting predatory swiftness, so the extra CP from the early moonfire helps increase the odds (going from 1-2 CP roar with just rake to 2-4CP) that your first rip gets BT'd.

[Deleted]

Been messing around on my alt (Guardian Druid) and playing feral in pvp. I'm used to using savage roar but see every feral using incarn in arena (even though we never lose to a mirror if I play savage roar and they play incarn but w/e).

Just wondered how best to use incarn to get as much pressure out as possible. If I have regrowth proc available, is it moonfire -> shred x 3 (to get to 4 CPs) -> regrowth -> rake -> Rip? Then just repeat on other targets?

Ofc if we're focusing on one target at the time I could just keep nuking the same target, but I seem to screw up sometimes with the rotation as when I play Savage Roar I rarely (basically never) use shred, even if I have berserk up.

[Edit:] Only 2k cr playing at around 2.1-2.2 mmr.