Balance druid class/spell fantasy

[Deleted]

So I am relatively new to the Balance spec, I've been playing it roughly since the start of Legion.

So far I've been enjoying it. However there is this one thing that has been bothering me since I've started playing balance but I realized what it was only recently, after leveling an alt mage:

I don't feel like there is much "fantasy" in the way how our spells work and interact. In fact most of the spells and talents balance druids have feel extremely "gamey" (i don't like that word, but I can't think of anything more descriptive) to me.

Let me give you some examples (purely based on my own opinions):

• Frost mage: Slowing and freezing your opponents and then shatter them with bits of glacier. Everything is about colder temperatures and increasing the freezing power.
• Demo warlock: Summoning more and more demons and empowering those to deal more damage. Talents enabling you to summon more and more powerful demons.
• Feral druid: Cutting, ripping and shredding your opponent so it slowly bleeds to death. Talents increase the power of said bleeds.
• Fire mage: Just flames, fire and burning. Talents give you more flames, fire and burning.

All sounds pretty epic right?

Ok now how would you describe balance druids (I am exaggerating, I know):
So you are a fat bird and you call down the power of sun and moon which does not interact at all and you can't even see any proper effects on the targets. Their power can be improved by raining down tiny light particles for some reason, which suddenly interact with those. You then shoot more moon and sun spells at the target, which again does not interact in any way but can be empowered by a different star energy for no real reason. Then you drop a moon. Which is cool, but yet again, have no interaction with the other spells whatsoever.

And then you get to the talents and it's even worse, it's all just "reduced ap cost", "increased radius", "you get 2 instant spells", "more flat dmg on spell". I mean where's any fun in that?

I think the astral power building/spending should be the glue that hold everything together but i just don't feel it. And after getting ED and pretty much ditching the system of empowered LS and SW there's even less interaction.


Maybe I am missing something, maybe I am trying to look too much into it, but anyway, what are your thoughts?

[Gestopft]

They've always had trouble getting the mechanics for Balance right.

I think fundamentally, the fantasy of the rotation has always been to "balance" the use of the faster and weaker Solar Wrath (sun/nature) with the slower and stronger Lunar Strike (formerly Starfire)(moon/arcane), so they've tried a number of different mechanics over the years to try and make a "two nuke" rotation work.

-There was the "spam one nuke until you proc a buff for the other" version, but you ran into haste cap issues fairly easily, and were absolutely punished by movement
-There was the "spam one nuke to push a slider and then the other to push the slider back" version, which along with the next one you ended up having to gimp yourself a bit if you needed to be in a certain slider position at a certain time
-There was the ebb and flow timer where the power of your spells varied with time, which was awkward and not very intuitive

I think I may be missing an iteration in there, but they've had trouble finding a design that balanced both nukes.

[Madus]

They've always had trouble getting the mechanics for Balance right.

Yes

I think fundamentally, the fantasy of the rotation has always been to "balance" the use of the faster and weaker Solar Wrath (sun/nature) with the slower and stronger Lunar Strike (formerly Starfire)(moon/arcane), so they've tried a number of different mechanics over the years to try and make a "two nuke" rotation work.

No, name balance have nothing to do with sun/moon. The name "Balance" existed before of Sun spells.
Balance have problem with fantasy because they went away from Natural/Plant caster/Druid of the Talon to some space crap over time.

[Beckers]

To be honest I LOVE it to bits.

Using the power of the sun and the moon to cause harm? Count me in!

Add the fact that my night elf has a spell called full moon and I am a happy druid.

[Deleted]

No, name balance have nothing to do with sun/moon. The name "Balance" existed before of Sun spells.
Balance have problem with fantasy because they went away from Natural/Plant caster/Druid of the Talon to some space crap over time.

Yeah I feel the same, especially after digging deeper into lore and reading the novels I feel much more like a priestess of Elune than an actual druid.

There's no "being one with nature" or "using the power and elements of nature (meaning Azeroth's nature, not space nature)" to your advantage at all anymore outside of entangling roots...

[Madus]

Maybe I am missing something, maybe I am trying to look too much into it, but anyway, what are your thoughts?

Actual Balance druid arsenal would fit something like "Priest of Elune" more like a druid.

[Gestopft]

Yes
No, name balance have nothing to do with sun/moon. The name "Balance" existed before of Sun spells.
Balance have problem with fantasy because they went away from Natural/Plant caster/Druid of the Talon to some space crap over time.

Well, (Solar) Wrath has always been nature, and Starfire (Lunar Strike) has always been arcane, iirc. They've always had two nukes from opposing schools; I guess maybe the solar/lunar came during Cata. The term "balance" is very nebulous; from the start I don't think it was ever clear what was being "balanced." Was it keeping nature in balance? Balancing nature and arcane? Not falling over?

I think it was kind of a "we want a nature theme, but plants and growth is really a Resto thing, and we already have Cat form for melee, so we need some ranged spells, and 'razor leaf' was already taken by Pokemon so let's make shit up." They've gotten more specific in the design fantasy over the years, but given where they started, there is still a certain lack of definition that lingers.

- - - Updated - - -

Actual Balance druid arsenal would fit something like "Priest of Elune" more like a druid.

Given the connection of Moonkin to Elune, this makes a lot of sense.

Sort of off topic: whatever the fantasy may be, I love what the artifact does for the rotation. I've had a Balance alt for a long time, and I've never had so much fun as I am in this expansion.

[Mastho]

There was more fantasy to it in previous expansions, the eb and flow of the stars and the sun, the sun enpowering your solar wrath and sunfire, the stars your starfire(now lunar strike) and moonfire. And like people said, the loss of more nature feeling abilities decreases the fantasy of it even more, thorns, hurricane etc.

That being said, personally I just like being a fat chicken that can flap around too much to mind any of the lack of fantasy feel in our abilities x)

[Deleted]

That being said, personally I just like being a fat chicken that can flap around too much to mind any of the lack of fantasy feel in our abilities x)

I can't disagree with that

[Tyze]

Balance Druid: You throw a damn moon at your target


Doesn't get better than that

[lappee]

No, name balance have nothing to do with sun/moon. The name "Balance" existed before of Sun spells.
Balance have problem with fantasy because they went away from Natural/Plant caster/Druid of the Talon to some space crap over time.

True, it was originally to balance between Nature and Arcane magics - now its "Sun and Moon".

The core Fantasy is still there even if it changed a bit thematically.

[Hellshout]

Balance Druid: You throw a damn moon at your target


Doesn't get better than that

But we need more all 3 moons to be big, not just the last. I love seeing that huge chunk of rock hitting mobs, but the first 2 are kinda wimpy.

[huth]

True, it was originally to balance between Nature and Arcane magics - now its "Sun and Moon".

The core Fantasy is still there even if it changed a bit thematically.

For that matter, they didn't really have any actual lore identity up till now, so past occurences aren't much good in this regard anyway.

[Madus]

Well, (Solar) Wrath has always been nature, and Starfire (Lunar Strike) has always been arcane, iirc. They've always had two nukes from opposing schools; I guess maybe the solar/lunar came during Cata. The term "balance" is very nebulous; from the start I don't think it was ever clear what was being "balanced." Was it keeping nature in balance? Balancing nature and arcane? Not falling over?

I think it was kind of a "we want a nature theme, but plants and growth is really a Resto thing, and we already have Cat form for melee, so we need some ranged spells, and 'razor leaf' was already taken by Pokemon so let's make shit up." They've gotten more specific in the design fantasy over the years, but given where they started, there is still a certain lack of definition that lingers.

- - - Updated - - -



Given the connection of Moonkin to Elune, this makes a lot of sense.

Sort of off topic: whatever the fantasy may be, I love what the artifact does for the rotation. I've had a Balance alt for a long time, and I've never had so much fun as I am in this expansion.

Imho "Balance" was not chosen for "balancing something (i mean gamemechanic)" aspect, name was chosen just because whole Nature is about balance, so they used it.
Other explanation can be that vanilla moonkin used melee attack and spells...
In vanilla race of priest basically sets your deity what gave you some speciality, NE had Elune so they had dot named "Starshards".
Over time priests lost deities, we gained suns and lost nature and Balance druid went to "Druid of Elune".

[Wildmoon]

Balance druid lore wise is an odd one. In most novels and lore sources when lore characters cast offensive spells they don't actually turn into a moonkin form. Druids turn into different types of animals to gain something they could not do with their normal forms. You won't see Malfurion turning into a boomkin because the form won't benefit him in any way. He is already a stronger caster than any moonkin out there lol. On the opposite side, Malfurion did turn into bear, cat and stormcrow. He did that because he could never hope to have the strenght of a bear,the agility of a cat or the ability to fly of a stormcrow in his normal form.

[huth]

Because Malfurion is his own thing, not bound by the same constraints as player Druids. The comparison doesn't really hold. For that same reason we can go face Xavius directly, while he has to stay behind.

Imho "Balance" was not chosen for "balancing something (i mean gamemechanic)" aspect, name was chosen just because whole Nature is about balance, so they used it.
Other explanation can be that vanilla moonkin used melee attack and spells...
In vanilla race of priest basically sets your deity what gave you some speciality, NE had Elune so they had dot named "Starshards".
Over time priests lost deities, we gained suns and lost nature and Balance druid went to "Druid of Elune".

Probably would have been a good idea to rename the spec like they did with Outlaw. Balance is to generic a concept for Druids to really make sense for a specific subgroup.

[Wildmoon]

Because Malfurion is his own thing, not bound by the same constraints as player Druids. The comparison doesn't really hold. For that same reason we can go face Xavius directly, while he has to stay behind.


Probably would have been a good idea to rename the spec like they did with Outlaw. Balance is to generic a concept for Druids to really make sense for a specific subgroup.

Malfurion really is not his own thing when it comes to what I said. Naralex nor Fandral did turn into a boomkin in lore. In fact, you would have to try really hard to find one instance where a druid did turn into a boomkin in lore sources other than in game. Turning into Moonkin has the same amount of lore to back it up as turning into a treant to heal which is not a lot.

[Deleted]

How can you not love balance, you LITERALLY throw a MOON(!!!!!) on someones head! ^^

[huth]

Malfurion really is not his own thing when it comes to what I said. Naralex nor Fandral did turn into a boomkin in lore. In fact, you would have to try really hard to find one instance where a druid did turn into a boomkin in lore sources other than in game. Turning into Moonkin has the same amount of lore to back it up as turning into a treant to heal which is not a lot.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

[Wildmoon]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

You can say the same about the existence of unicorns in real life.