How important is adjusting for Elaborate Planning?

[Tantalus91]

Agonizing Poison build

Ok so currently when not refreshing Rupture I'm building to 5-6 CP and casting Envenom. I've been experimenting a little with instead, keeping my normal rotation but this time, Envenom at >=3 CP AND Elaborate Planning < 2 seconds.

I think the latter is a dps increase, but is it really that much of a dps increase?

[Tehterokkar]

The last time I spoke with my guild Rogues(and I swear this info changes every other day), you want 5-6 CP Envenoms outside CDs/Procs(Vendetta, BotA, etc.), but during those procs 100% EB uptime is better(so 2-3 CP Envenoms if you need to keep EB up).

Also try to refresh EB as late as possible, failing to do so once is not a big deal, but over the fight with +30 refreshes, it adds up fast.

[Deleted]

You should always aim for max EP uptime. Best way to achieve it, is to use 3+ CP envenoms. Important is to have a proper crit base, ~ 44%. This will make your "rotation" much smoother. Besides, you say you got a dps increase by doing that so why do you even question it? A dps increase is a dps increase, no matter how much it is.

[Sinte]

Seems from my personal tests (anecdotal obv), it is better to 2 mut => envenom on single target during downtime, but in any type of cleave you just want EP up 100% of the time.

[Richie311]

100% EP uptime duing vendetta/kingsbane. This means you envenom at 3 cps if you have to. If I get a 2pc mastery proc from gloves boots and maybe another proc or too I'll do it then too.

[Grusalugg]

We are 2 rogues in our guild, my fellow rogue always does 95%+ parses on every mythic encounter. And I am mostly doing 85%+.

He told me that he was pooling with 4+ combo points, maxing energy. Then envenom- mut-mut-6cp envenom- mut. Then start again.

He is not doing 3cp envenoms at all. He is only going for %100 EP uptime during vendetta-kb etc. Cooldowns.

Tldr; he is not doing 3cp envenom mut envenom mut envenom full ep uptime playstyle.

[Deleted]

Can someone explain the reasoning behind "Only go for 100% EP uptime during vendetta/kingsbane" ? First of all if i'm not mistaken Kingsbane is not affected by vendetta in this patch (might change in 7.1.5) so it doesn't make sense if it's affected by EP. The only thing it should matter is the envenom buff for more poison procs. (still haven't found out an answer for this)

I mean I don't really understand why it's a dps boost to do it during vendetta but not outside of it. What am I missing?

[Deleted]

75% EP uptime is all you need, don't listen to the clueless people, only time you should prio 100% uptime is during cooldowns, try to clip it at the last 0.5s

[Deleted]

75% EP uptime is all you need, don't listen to the clueless people, only time you should prio 100% uptime is during cooldowns, try to clip it at the last 0.5s

But why? If it's doing more damage during cooldowns then it should do more damage outside of them as well..

[Deleted]

But why? If it's doing more damage during cooldowns then it should do more damage outside of them as well..

because 1-3cp envenoms are not worth it

[Deleted]

because 1-3cp envenoms are not worth it

So why are they worth it during vendetta? Or are they only worth during nightstalker rupture?

[Deleted]

So why are they worth it during vendetta? Or are they only worth during nightstalker rupture?

They aren't? If you are using Envenoms with that low CP you clearly didn't plan ahead.

[Deleted]

They aren't? If you are using Envenoms with that low CP you clearly didn't plan ahead.

We don't have the energy regen to go for both 100% uptime and high CP envenom, it has nothing to do with planning ahead.

[Deleted]

We don't have the energy regen to go for both 100% uptime and high CP envenom, it has nothing to do with planning ahead.

Mfw I literally said that you should aim for 75% ish uptime on EP, read again.

[Deleted]

Mfw I literally said that you should aim for 75% ish uptime on EP, read again.

You said 75% outside of CD's. What I don't get is why is 100% with 3CP envenoms better during CD's?

[Knj]

You said 75% outside of CD's. What I don't get is why is 100% with 3CP envenoms better during CD's?

Multipliers.

[Deleted]

Multipliers.

Care to explain please with more details? I mean during nightstalker rupture I get it that it's better to go for maximum uptime on EP because it ticks like a truck but if we are talking about a non vanish vendetta why should anything change?

[Deleted]

EP is +15% to all damage, so it matters most for the moments you normally do increased damage, be it Vendetta, H/BL, empowered rupture...hell, even during set/trinket/passives procs if ya wanna squeeze it all out (some of those cases may stand to reason tho) by slapping a +15% on top of it.
And because there are a lot of those more damage moments we get to the theoretical 75% uptime on EP (I'm not saying it, just stating what others here said).
Personally I only track the most important ones and mantain EP fully, when not I just go with 4+ Envenoms and 6p Ruptures (Having almost 55% crit with full EoC stacks and +8% Mutilate crit from traits helps a lot).
My 2 cents.

[PessimiStick]

EP is +15% to all damage, so it matters most for the moments you normally do increased damage, be it Vendetta, H/BL, empowered rupture...hell, even during set/trinket/passives procs if ya wanna squeeze it all out (some of those cases may stand to reason tho) by slapping a +15% on top of it.
And because there are a lot of those more damage moments we get to the theoretical 75% uptime on EP (I'm not saying it, just stating what others here said).
Personally I only track the most important ones and mantain EP fully, when not I just go with 4+ Envenoms and 6p Ruptures (Having almost 55% crit with full EoC stacks and +8% Mutilate crit from traits helps a lot).
My 2 cents.

This logic doesn't make sense. If low CP is better with flat modifiers on all damage, then it's better without them as well. The only reason to maximize uptime during CDs would be because the different mechanics at play there make it worth it. I. E.: Kingsbane and nightstalker rupture.

[Deleted]

This logic doesn't make sense. If low CP is better with flat modifiers on all damage, then it's better without them as well. The only reason to maximize uptime during CDs would be because the different mechanics at play there make it worth it. I. E.: Kingsbane and nightstalker rupture.

Ok nevermind I did some more searching and it seems that damage buffs stack multiplicative (I was like 99% sure they stacked additively). So basically during Vendetta we do 1.3 x damage now adding 15% from EP we end up with 1,495 x damage so overall a 49,5 % damage increase compared to 45% if the stacking was additive. If this is indeed how it works then I would assume it's optimal to keep 100% uptime on EP during vendetta, nightstalker rupture AND when blood of the assasinated procs. BotA gives rupture 2x1.15=2.3 rupture damage so 130% increase to it's damage, when EP buff is up.

Now I'm not a theorycrafter or anything so if someone knows better, or if my math is wrong please correct me please!