Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron. (Hindsight)

[Fiddlewick]

The Puzzle Box of Yogg-saron has been discussed to death.. Or has it? (*que dramatic music) With the release of Legion, and mostly EN people started discussing Ill'gynoth, and his (in)famous whispers.
Looking back at the whispers from this puzzle box, and speculate regarding its whispers with the new info we've recieved could be interesting.

Here are my crazy ideas and a list of the whispers you can hear upon trying to open the box:

"At the bottom of the ocean even light must die" (The bottom of the ocean seems to be N'zoth's domain, weird for Yogg-saron to mention it. What interests me with this line however is that "even light -must- die" which implies that most, if not everything at the bottom must die. Seems that something is hiding down there. Ny'alotha for example?)

"The silent, sleeping, staring houses in the backwoods always dream. It would be merciful to tear them down." (The woods is mentioned in multiple whispers. I believe he is talking about Azeroth or Val'sharah when he mentions the woods and the forest. These houses always dreams, and it would be merciful to tear them down. Is he talking about tearing Azeroth or Val'sharah apart with the use of the Emerald Nightmare?)

"There is no sharp distinction between the real and the unreal." (The lines between the Emerald Dream and Azeroth are thin. The Emerald Dream is not "the real world" yet the corruption easily spread to Val'sharah)

"Even death may die." (Yogg-Saron is the "God of Death" yet he can also be killed.)
"There is a little lamb lost in dark woods." (Is he talking about us?)
"All places, all things have souls. All souls can be devoured." (Straight forward. Every creature has a soul, and that soul can be devoured. Even demons can be corrupted by the Old gods, it seems)

"What can change the nature of a man?" (I never took the Old gods for philosophers. Seems to be mocking our attempts to open it)
"The stars sweep chill currents that make men shiver in the dark." (Refering to the Void lords that sent out Old gods across the galaxy?)
"You will all be alone in the end." (Mockery, or talking about Azeroth being the last planet to stand against the Legion?)
"Do you dream while you sleep or is it an escape from the horrors of reality?" (We are sent to the Emerald Dream while sleeping.)
"Look around. They will all betray you. Flee screaming into the black forest." (Again he talks about the black forest. Most did betray us in Val'sharah. He wants us to flee away from him.)

"In the land of Ny'alotha there is only sleep." (Is Ny'alotha the Emerald Nightmare/Rift of Aln?)
"In the sleeping city of Ny'alotha walk only mad things." (Everything the Nightmare touches did turn mad)
"Ny'alotha is a city of old, terrible, unnumbered crimes." (Xavius resided in the Rift of Aln, and he commited many a "crime")
"Y'knath k'th'rygg k'yi mrr'ungha gr'mula." (Ah yes, pretty easy to understand, no need to explain it)
"The void sucks at your soul. It is content to feast slowly." (The void intends to consume us all, yet it's not quick about it)

"The drowned god's heart is black ice." (N'zoth? Helya? She has a "water" theme and can be considered a god. She hates Odyn with all her being. Azhara?
She was drowned, and her people worshipped her like a goddess)
It is standing right behind you. Do not move. Do not breathe
Have you had the dream again? A black goat with seven eyes that watches from the outside (Y'Shaarj seems to be the one he is talking about. Considering Y'Shaarj is gone, he might be watching from outside of the circle, as Old Gods seem uncapable of directly dying)
In the sunken city, he lays dreaming. (Ny'alotha? N'zoth?)

Open me! Open me! Open me! Then only will you know peace. (Taunting you to continue the maddening task)
You resist. You cling to your life as if it actually matters. You will learn. (The god of death would not care for life, besides. Souls have far more value than simply being alive)
The tortured spirits of your ancestors cling to you, screaming in silence. Apparently they are quite numerous.
The fish know all the secrets. They know the cold. They know the dark. (The fish knows what lies at the bottom of the occean?)

The giant rook watches from the dead trees. Nothing breathes beneath his shadow. (The giant rook? Black Rook hold is located in a dead forest, and contains only dead things. It's also a part of Val'sharah)
Beneath the shadow of the darkened spire, there is no light, no mercy, only void, and the chaos within. (What spire? Is he talking about the tower of sacrifice in Ny'alotha?)

Alright, that's all. *removes tin foil hat* Note that this is probably not what the makers of these lines had in mind, but it does seem to fit in with Legion. (Or maybe I've finally lost it)
Wowhead link to the item: http://www.wowhead.com/item=64482/pu...saron#comments
Do feel free to give me all the hate if I screw up on some lore details too.

[micwini]

As if blizzard knew where today's story was going back when they made that item...

[Fiddlewick]

As if blizzard knew where today's story was going back when they made that item...

No, they did not. I even stated that, I just think it's fun to look at how it turned out.

[Aucald]

Yogg-Saron's Puzzle Box was a great way to fling a light into the future, as it were; it doesn't really matter if any or all of its various proclamations get picked up. As with Il'gynoth and its statements the Puzzle Box is rife for confabulations within the lore - it makes for an interesting set-piece to discuss, debate, and dissect. The one that always bothered me the most was: "The tortured spirits of your ancestors cling to you, screaming in silence. Apparently they are quite numerous." There's something about the idea of a crowd of invisible ghosts around me, each one screaming unintelligibly without the ability to be perceived - there's a fair degree of horror there.

[Fiddlewick]

Yogg-Saron's Puzzle Box was a great way to fling a light into the future, as it were; it doesn't really matter if any or all of its various proclamations get picked up. As with Il'gynoth and its statements the Puzzle Box is rife for confabulations within the lore - it makes for an interesting set-piece to discuss, debate, and dissect. The one that always bothered me the most was: "The tortured spirits of your ancestors cling to you, screaming in silence. Apparently they are quite numerous." There's something about the idea of a crowd of invisible ghosts around me, each one screaming unintelligibly without the ability to be perceived - there's a fair degree of horror there.

Definitely. It's all creepy and uneassy, and that's what I love about the Old gods, and Lovecraft's work. I mostly prefer the surreal in Lovecraftian horror such as "The music of Erich Zann."
The fact that it's all up to the own reader to percieve what it actually means is what I think draws me in too, of course.. We'll never really have an answer to most of the "nonsense" that Old Gods say.

[steelballfc]

"The silent, sleeping, staring houses in the backwoods always dream. It would be merciful to tear them down." (The woods is mentioned in multiple whispers. I believe he is talking about Azeroth or Val'sharah when he mentions the woods and the forest. These houses always dreams, and it would be merciful to tear them down. Is he talking about tearing Azeroth or Val'sharah apart with the use of the Emerald Nightmare?)

"What can change the nature of a man?" (I never took the Old gods for philosophers. Seems to be mocking our attempts to open it)

The giant rook watches from the dead trees. Nothing breathes beneath his shadow. (The giant rook? Black Rook hold is located in a dead forest, and contains only dead things. It's also a part of Val'sharah)

-there is an actual dead-house near the dark-portal where it's the only thing left from the first horde invaders, and the place where the dark-portal located was a forest before the dark-portal was open.
- if we consider a man = human being then he talks about many wow char, the obvious one is jaina.
- it may refer to Karazhan

[Fiddlewick]

-there is an actual dead-house near the dark-portal where it's the only thing left from the first horde invaders, and the place where the dark-portal located was a forest before the dark-portal was open.
- if we consider a man = human being then he talks about many wow char, the obvious one is jaina.
- it may refer to Karazhan

Good observation on that first one!
I think man is more in regards to "humanoid" and then we can look at numerous humanoids that have been changed. Both Azhara and Xavius fits that bill
As for the last one, yes.. It could be Karazhan and Deadwind Pass. "Nothing breathes beneath his shadow" with the shadow being Medivh/Sargeras. If you wanna get real tin foil hat you could equate Dead-wind- and "Nothing breathes"

[Arrashi]

I always considered this item to be this "we always had it planned" tie for underwater/naga themed expansion with old gods as big bads. That being said, i think that overly negative reception of vash'ir in cata kinda made them forsake this idea.

[Deleted]

No, they did not. I even stated that, I just think it's fun to look at how it turned out.

When blizz releases an expansion they have (not completely, as they seem to have improvised some details of the recent lore), at least, the next expansion organized and ready to code/design. I don't think it is just coincidence, and they have been hinting N'Zoth/Nyalotha since Cataclysm (the same expansion they released archaeology as a profession) :P.

Quick read: IMHO, they have the next expansion planned since Cata, even before they had planned the expansions between (pandaria-wod-legion).

[Fiddlewick]

When blizz releases an expansion they have (not completely, as they seem to have improvised some details of the recent lore), at least, the next expansion organized and ready to code/design. I don't think it is just coincidence, and they have been hinting N'Zoth/Nyalotha since Cataclysm (the same expansion they released archaeology as a profession) :P.

Quick read: IMHO, they have the next expansion planned since Cata, even before they had planned the expansions between (pandaria-wod-legion).

Besides, I always figured that they wanted to bring the Emerald Dream into the game, you can alsoe tie alot of these whispers to the Emerald Nightmare.
Then again, it's most likely just random that we can tie it together. Minus "Have you had the dream again? A black goat with seven eyes that watches from the outside" which was most definitely not just a coincidence.

[Deleted]

Besides, I always figured that they wanted to bring the Emerald Dream into the game, you can alsoe tie alot of these whispers to the Emerald Nightmare.
Then again, it's most likely just random that we can tie it together. Minus "Have you had the dream again? A black goat with seven eyes that watches from the outside" which was most definitely not just a coincidence.

Maybe I'm wrong, or you are wrong, but you relate almost all whispers with the dream, and while I think most of them are related to the dream, I don't think nyalotha is the Rift of Aln. The rift of aln is just where the dream started in moonglade. Nyalotha is stated to be a drowned city. One city that drowned during the sundering was Zin-Azshari, casually near suramar and azsuna (probably between them, or south) , where some elves lived, elves that became nagas, nagas created by N'zoth. I think it is "almost" sure, that nyalotha is the drowned zin-azshari.

Edit to add: I don't know if you have realised that every zone in Broken Isles refers to something related to Old Gods. I think it isn't coincidence that in Azsuna there are Nagas leaded by Azshara, in Val'sharah is the emerald nightmare, in Highmountain is the Neltharion Lair (deathwing was corrupted by old gods). I don't know if stormheim has something, but Sylvanas actions let me think that she wants to enter shadowlands, or even conquer it, the counterpart of the emerald dream, created by the old gods too. As she said "She won't rest while others have the power to control death".

[Fiddlewick]

Maybe I'm wrong, or you are wrong, but you relate almost all whispers with the dream, and while I think most of them are related to the dream, I don't think nyalotha is the Rift of Aln. The rift of aln is just where the dream started in moonglade. Nyalotha is stated to be a drowned city. One city that drowned during the sundering was Zin-Azshari, casually near suramar and azsuna (probably between them, or south) , where some elves lived, elves that became nagas, nagas created by N'zoth. I think it is "almost" sure, that nyalotha is the drowned zin-azshari.

I disagree that Ny'alotha is the drowned zin-azshari. It is actually known as the sleeping city, not as the drowned city. (Atleast I could not find anything regarding that. Would love to see your source on it.)
The closes thing to Ny'alotha being refered to as a drowned city is the quote: "In the sunken city, he lays dreaming"
My reasons for believeing that it's not an elven city is as following:
Xal'atah says (While near Suramar city): This city of elves pales in comparison to the sleeping city... (Keep in mind, you could read it as her saying: "this city, as opposed to our elven city")
Xal'atoh says: "You will rest in Ny'alotha"
It seems weird that Y'shaarj would know what Ny'alotha is if it came afer the War of the Ancients.
Was the Emerald Nightmare made before Y'shaarj was destroyed? If so, I believe it is highly likely that Ny'alotha is in the Nightmare. (Xal'ath does find a rift in the EN raid, and both Xal'atah and Xal'atoh seems related to Y'shaarj specifically)
Source:
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Ny'alotha

[Deleted]

It's just a toy.

[Deleted]

I disagree that Ny'alotha is the drowned zin-azshari. It is actually known as the sleeping city, not as the drowned city. (Atleast I could not find anything regarding that. Would love to see your source on it.)
The closes thing to Ny'alotha being refered to as a drowned city is the quote: "In the sunken city, he lays dreaming"
My reasons for believeing that it's not an elven city is as following:
Xal'atah says (While near Suramar city): This city of elves pales in comparison to the sleeping city... (Keep in mind, you could read it as her saying: "this city, as opposed to our elven city")
Xal'atoh says: "You will rest in Ny'alotha"
It seems weird that Y'shaarj would know what Ny'alotha is if it came afer the War of the Ancients.
Was the Emerald Nightmare made before Y'shaarj was destroyed? If so, I believe it is highly likely that Ny'alotha is in the Nightmare. (Xal'ath does find a rift in the EN raid, and both Xal'atah and Xal'atoh seems related to Y'shaarj specifically)
Source:
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Ny'alotha

Well maybe I explained myself bad, english is not my native speech. I said drowned city but i mixed "drowned god" and "sunken city". As i told you, maybe you are right, the box havily hints the dream, but:

Yoggi box:
--- "At the bottom of the ocean even light must die" -> Implies danger in the ocean depths, and in the game's deepest zone (vashj'ir) we can see the Old God's minions doing their bussiness. Vashj'ir is not that far from Suramar, and them are heavily elven themed, so maybe what is between them is also elvish.
--- "The drowned god's heart is black ice." -> don't think it's Azshara or Helya, because it says god, and there are other whispers in which they use gender distinction, so why not say "drowned godess"?
--- "In the sunken city, he lays dreaming." -> Again, sunken, under the sea, maybe he (i think N'zoth, maybe you have another idea) is in "stasis" "dreaming" "sleeping" "locked", and there is speculation that if we close the portal of the legion, we will awake N'zoth ("Five keys to open our way. Five torches light our path." -> pillars of creation)
--- "The fish know all the secrets. They know the cold. They know the dark." -> Sea, ocean, abyssal depths, darkness, where light can't reach, light dies. (this even happens in real life)
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Il'gynoth:
--- "To find him, drown yourself in a circle of stars." -> this is why I think it is Zin-Azshari, it was near Suramar pre-sundering, and Suramar is heavily stars inspired (even the Hidden Artifact Appearance of fire mages, found in Suramar, is named "The Stars Design"), and in the center of Suramar, there is the Nightwell. There is even a zone which is a dungeon also, named literally "Court of Stars".
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But maybe they are only saying half-truths and blowing minds...

[steelballfc]

--- "In the sunken city, he lays dreaming." -> Again, sunken, under the sea, maybe he (i think N'zoth, maybe you have another idea) is in "stasis" "dreaming" "sleeping" "locked", and there is speculation that if we close the portal of the legion, we will awake N'zoth.

there is a dead dragon in Sleeping position near Vashj'ir where you can't reach him because of the fatigue.

[Stormdash]

Well, I can assure you at least one of those has absolutely nothing to do with foreshadowing, because it's an easter egg/shout-out to another game.

"What can change the nature of a man" are basically the Arc Words of the classic, night legendary RPG Planescape: Torment.

[Theoris]

Personally I don't believe any of the whispers have anything to do with Val'sharah. The things concering the Old Gods are purposefully made to sound crypitc and vague. It makes it easier for Blizzard to apply story to it later on. There's also a pretty good chance that some of the whispers are simply references to other media.

"In the land of Ny'alotha there is only sleep." (Is Ny'alotha the Emerald Nightmare/Rift of Aln?)

The Rift of Aln is the 'root' of the Emerald Nightmare, not Ny'alotha itself. We don't know what Ny'alotha is yet.
Sure, we know it's some kind of city, but not if it really is somewhere beneath Azeroth's oceans and not a dimension of its own.

[Fiddlewick]

Well maybe I explained myself bad, english is not my native speech. I said drowned city but i mixed "drowned god" and "sunken city". As i told you, maybe you are right, the box havily hints the dream, but:

Yoggi box:
--- "At the bottom of the ocean even light must die" -> Implies danger in the ocean depths, and in the game's deepest zone (vashj'ir) we can see the Old God's minions doing their bussiness. Vashj'ir is not that far from Suramar, and them are heavily elven themed, so maybe what is between them is also elvish.
--- "The drowned god's heart is black ice." -> don't think it's Azshara or Helya, because it says god, and there are other whispers in which they use gender distinction, so why not say "drowned godess"?
--- "In the sunken city, he lays dreaming." -> Again, sunken, under the sea, maybe he (i think N'zoth, maybe you have another idea) is in "stasis" "dreaming" "sleeping" "locked", and there is speculation that if we close the portal of the legion, we will awake N'zoth ("Five keys to open our way. Five torches light our path." -> pillars of creation)
--- "The fish know all the secrets. They know the cold. They know the dark." -> Sea, ocean, abyssal depths, darkness, where light can't reach, light dies. (this even happens in real life)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Il'gynoth:
--- "To find him, drown yourself in a circle of stars." -> this is why I think it is Zin-Azshari, it was near Suramar pre-sundering, and Suramar is heavily stars inspired (even the Hidden Artifact Appearance of fire mages, found in Suramar, is named "The Stars Design"), and in the center of Suramar, there is the Nightwell. There is even a zone which is a dungeon also, named literally "Court of Stars"

It would not suprise me if Zin-azhari is related, and we might see it again. To me it feels kind of weird that Y'shaarj would reference Ny'alotha if that is the case. I don't think Ny'alotha is located on Azeroth either. There might be a rift in Zin-azhari?
As for the Nightmare, I think it makes as much sense for it to be there, or have the rift located there, as Ny'alotha seems to be some otherwordly place.
We also need to consider the shadow priest artifact thingy that happens in Emerald Nightmare, where we find a rift and the dagger says:
"Almost completely gone, as if it never existed. But the Rift is deep and vast, and somewhere down there it stirs. Something has changed, the last prison weakens. We must prepare."
---
It wouldn't suprise me if even Blizzard doesn't know where Ny'alotha is, it might just be in Goldshire on an rp server for all we know.

[Volardelis]

When blizz releases an expansion they have (not completely, as they seem to have improvised some details of the recent lore), at least, the next expansion organized and ready to code/design. I don't think it is just coincidence, and they have been hinting N'Zoth/Nyalotha since Cataclysm (the same expansion they released archaeology as a profession) :P.

Quick read: IMHO, they have the next expansion planned since Cata, even before they had planned the expansions between (pandaria-wod-legion).

Even wrath had foreshadowing into cata with Loken and Yogg saying the end of days is upon us, and Halion is the big one. You also had the earthquakes since ICC launched, but didn't become noticeable until around RS came out

[Deleted]

No, Im sure Ny'alotha s not the rift of ahn, we have been in the rift of Ahn, it doesnt look like a sleeping city.

Ny'alotha is most likely a alternate dimension like the firelands, with an entrance deep underneath the sea.

Or it could be a giant city on the other side of Azeroth, were the old gods rule. Nobody has ever returned from the other side of the planet.

It also could be a city on the heart of the titan deep within Azeroth, trying/succeeding in corrupting our titan spirit.

(Non of these theories are mine)