Suramar Elven Armies; The Blood Elves rise!

[Koryn123]

She doesn't need a weapon. She'll annoy the enemies with her constant whining about "mah husband" until they just want to kill themselves.

Not only whining, but threatening you while helping her, leaving Horde players with absolutely zero motivation to do so when she's doing nothing but abuse them for just trying to get her worthless husband back for her.

No reason apart from getting the Tears of Elune from her. Apart from that, the only Horde who would feel any desire to help her would be a Horde druid leading the Cenarion Circle druid order hall. Otherwise, all they get for their trouble is Tyrande bitching at them the whole time, and basically saying that if they fail to get Malfurion back (despite it being a team effort with her being just as responsible for failure as you), you'll pay the price.

[Koryn123]

That was a long time ago in PTR. Also remember that you were killing her people in Ashenvale and Stonetalon mountain. Even though you were following orders, if she acts nice toward Horde PC that would be stupid. When you bring the Tears of Elune to Dalaran, she mentions that because of your bravery, Val'sharah is saved and that you are different.

Unless Blizzard adds dialogue where she mentions that she recognizes you from your fighting her people, either in-person or through her soldier's accounts, she just looks like an ass making generalizations about the person whose largely abandoned their faction for the greater good to lead the renewed Order of the Silver Hand, wielding Ashbringer, so they obviously are good enough guys that she can trust them.

She should have noticed I was different as I was helping her so selflessly with such high risk to my own well-being to save Malfurion who failed his job so hard.

[Sangris]

That was a long time ago in PTR. Also remember that you were killing her people in Ashenvale and Stonetalon mountain. Even though you were following orders, if she acts nice toward Horde PC that would be stupid. When you bring the Tears of Elune to Dalaran, she mentions that because of your bravery, Val'sharah is saved and that you are different.

Yes, and in Suramar she gives my Blood Elf character shitty remarks because he stands with "mana addicts". I'm a fucking blood elf, of course I would stand with my people. Also as any other Horde race, the blood elves are my allies, so of course I would also stand with them.

Also, I wouldn't mind if she said things like "I don't trust you because you killed my people in Ashenvale and Stonetalon Mountain. I don't like you and you don't like me but we should work together finding Malfurion for the greater good."

Instead she's like "I just saw Malfurion getting dragged away by the shade of Xavius riding on a corrupted Ysera. I make you fully responsible for that even though you just arrived around the same time I did but while I'm totally not at fault I blame you for my worthless husband's incompetence charging headlong into an obvious trap without thinking for a second or two about the guy who so effortlessly corrupted his Shan'do who also happens to be a freaking demi-god. You will now help me find him while I'll be an ungrateful b**ch to you the whole time, threatening you again and again each time you fulfilled a task that I'm about to give you while incessantly whining about my husband meaning everything to me."

[Koryn123]

Yes, and in Suramar she gives my Blood Elf character shitty remarks because he stands with "mana addicts". I'm a fucking blood elf, of course I would stand with my people. Also as any other Horde race, the blood elves are my allies, so of course I would also stand with them.

Also, I wouldn't mind if she said things like "I don't trust you because you killed my people in Ashenvale and Stonetalon Mountain. I don't like you and you don't like me but we should work together finding Malfurion for the greater good."

Instead she's like "I just saw Malfurion getting dragged away by the shade of Xavius riding on a corrupted Ysera. I make you fully responsible for that even though you just arrived around the same time I did but while I'm totally not at fault I blame you for my worthless husband's incompetence charging headlong into an obvious trap without thinking for a second or two about the guy who so effortlessly corrupted his Shan'do who also happens to be a freaking demi-god. You will now help me find him while I'll be an ungrateful b**ch to you the whole time, threatening you again and again each time you fulfilled a task that I'm about to give you while incessantly whining about my husband meaning everything to me."

My feelings exactly.

Though, I believe she's referring to the Nightfallen when she says "mana addicts." Which is still pretty shitty of her to hate them so much for hiding from the Legion, when 3 years earlier, she forgave the Shen'drelar Highborne who did the same thing, only they survived the 10,000 years by EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM SUCKING FEL. "But ya, the blood elves are totally untrustworthy cuz they use arcane, like the Moonguard who've apparently been around all this time on the Broken Isles but I guess we didn't care about them."

Also, it's really easy for Tyrande to call others mana addicts when she's never been without her source of power. She's been bathed in the energies of the Well of Eternity, then Nordrassil, for her entire life. The High/Blood Elves never realized that they had an addiction to magic until their power source was gone.

I wish Blizzard took the Night Elves' source away from them so they understood their kin, and that could open the doors to cooperation and understanding between all elves.

The only elves Tyrande couldn't accuse of being addicts, including herself and her own people, would be the Silver Covenant, though they've only been without it for 10 years at the very most, and I have no doubt that going without it will cut their lifespans significantly, possibly even to human-like longevity, as opposed to their centuries/millennia of youth and vigor before they finally show signs of aging and eventually die.

Tyrande, like 15,000-ish years old, I believe, is only now starting to show signs of aging, with like very very faint (like possibly 30-year old human) type wrinkles by her eyes, now that she's without the immortality part of Nordrassil.


Alliance immediately hate those who show outward signs of corruption (green glowing eyes), but are far slower to condemn genuinely deplorable evil actions, at least when they're committed by someone they see as nice and pretty-looking (Silver Covenant with their blue eyes).

[Magnagarde]

Blizzard shouldn't even have put Tyrande as the Alliance representative in the first place. She can do her part as priestess and guide, but she should definitely leave the troops' organization and fighting to Shandris. The Horde representative should've been someone else too because Liadrin supposedly took on a neutral role at the beginning of the expansion. Shandris would've been a proper counterweight due to both the characters's militaristic nature.

I wish Blizzard took the Night Elves' source away from them so they understood their kin, and that could open the doors to cooperation and understanding between all elves.

Night elves died making their source of power implode upon itself in order to destroy Archimonde, whereas the elves of Quel'thalas died trying to desperately defend theirs. One race sacrificed its source of power and immortality in order to save the rest of the world, whereas the other one used to suck energy out of others beings in order to retain their power. In the end, actions speak for themselves; won't go into detail as to how many times these very same night elves saved Azeroth from numerous other threats.

As much as Tyrande is an annoying, thoroughly neglected and when not - badly written character, you don't see her sucking energy out of a Naaru imprisoned underneath Darnassus in order to feel good about herself again. Both of them end up failing outside the Nighthold regardless.

[Sangris]

Again that was in PTR and never went live. So it never happebed. She says that lets put our differences aside because this is more important and in the end she thanks you. What more must she do so you get satisfied?

She still pretty much does this. Towards the end of the quest line she might be a little more bearable, but she still says things like "for your sake, hope that my idiot husband is safe".

By the way my problem does not lie so much with her being like that, but this actually giving me not the slightest incentive to help her, yet I have to anyway. If I was my character, I would be like "You know what? Screw you. I'm going to save Malfurion because he might still be useful for Azeroth, but I will do so on my own."

And what she should do? For starters, show some kind of respect and gratitude in Suramar.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Night elves died making their source of power implode upon itself in order to destroy Archimonde, whereas the elves of Quel'thalas died trying to desperately defend theirs. One race sacrificed its source of power and immortality in order to save the rest of the world, whereas the other one used to suck energy out of others beings in order to retain their power. In the end, actions speak for themselves; won't go into detail as to how many times these very same night elves saved Azeroth from numerous other threats.

As much as Tyrande is an annoying, thoroughly neglected and when not - badly written character, you don't see her sucking energy out of a Naaru imprisoned underneath Darnassus in order to feel good about herself again. Both of them end up failing outside the Nighthold regardless.
Last edited by Magnagarde; Yesterday at 07:54 PM.

I'm not sure how you could use the fact that the high elves died trying to protect their kingdom a bad thing, We also do see people trying to escape, Rommath is spam teleporting civilians away and He and Liadrin both hear a boat full of children get killed by scourge if I recall correctly. Also, Liadrin never did it to feel good, she hated the light true, but she did it mostly because it meant adding any sort of strength back to the High elves/ blood elves.

[ravenmoon]

She still pretty much does this. Towards the end of the quest line she might be a little more bearable, but she still says things like "for your sake, hope that my idiot husband is safe".

By the way my problem does not lie so much with her being like that, but this actually giving me not the slightest incentive to help her, yet I have to anyway. If I was my character, I would be like "You know what? Screw you. I'm going to save Malfurion because he might still be useful for Azeroth, but I will do so on my own."

And what she should do? For starters, show some kind of respect and gratitude in Suramar.

then you're not being the hero you're supposed to be. You are supposed to be aware that far more than your personal feelings for the Stormrages is at stake here. Malfurion is key to the fight against the nightmare and the corruption that can overrun the world, Xavius has him - this is the situation life has presented you with, make use of the tools you are given.

There is so much more at stake than your personal feelings - or how do you think many of these characters actually feel when they have to lay aside their differences for a greater more pressing need?

It's all Vereesa can do to not shoot an arrow into Rommath.


but they're working together. How many times have horde players had to work with alliance heroes like Khadgar and many others who have done their fair share of orc killing and troll killing huh. Even the mere fact of the blood elves in the horde and the forsaken, both were people who also fought and slaughtered the horde in their previous lives -- how do you think Orcs and trolls feel about that? Yet they put that aside when people turn around and instead offer their help... but in every case they weren't initially or happy with it at first.

We always see Tyrande initially hesitant, wary, unhappy at it, then she comes round. Remember how upset she was the Shen'dralar at first! She's easier on the nightborne in comparison, but she is the one that in the end argued their case to the rest of the night elves and allowed them to join with no restrictions to their magic usage and to be able to keep their own culture - (the nightborne culture - i.e. the pre-sundering night elven culture) without needing to change.

Tyrande measures you first, when she gets the green light she becomes your strongest supporter. You just need to trust she will see through the bad stuff to your heart. This is what she saw with Illidan and with the Illidari when she rescued him and convinces her husband and the king to give them a chance. Tyrande Whisperwind always ends up doing the right thing ... but then we should expect this off her, as the voice of the goddess. If Elune is really who she is supposed to be, it's not unsurprising that she somehow lets Tyrande know who to trust and who not to, and like is typical of the god-like being she is in this fantasy, she allows her faithful to come to their own conclusions after showing them the real picture.

Tyrande sees this and despite her feelings and her hurts she helps out. You should also be grateful for her candor. She is surprisingly very honest upfront about how she feels. You know at least with her, you get what you see. And that by no means makes her a fool. Compare that to Sylvannas who plays so many tricks, lies, deceptions etc.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I would love to see Vereesa shoot an arrow at Rommath.

[ravenmoon]

I'm not sure how you could use the fact that the high elves died trying to protect their kingdom a bad thing, We also do see people trying to escape, Rommath is spam teleporting civilians away and He and Liadrin both hear a boat full of children get killed by scourge if I recall correctly. Also, Liadrin never did it to feel good, she hated the light true, but she did it mostly because it meant adding any sort of strength back to the High elves/ blood elves.

I think his point is, it happened and it was bad, let's not get on high horse against Tyrande on behalf of any horde member given what they're likely to have done - especially for some races more than others like blood elf, orc or forsaken

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I would love to see Vereesa shoot an arrow at Rommath.

I can imagine Rommath looking wide eyed incredulously at Vereesa, with the "like really?" look /rolleyes. I don't think he'd retaliate... he has calmed down much more since his evil phase in TBC, he's actually a lot more dignified if still stuffy and obnoxious. Vereesa is still deeply hurt by her experiences, so she probably blames Rommath but 7.0 really seemed to show Vereesa having calmed down a lot, especially towards blood elves... unless they changed the hunter Thas'dorah quest line, she really cares for the blood elf males with her when she sends you to go after Alleria, she looked like she really loved him.

We don't often see that side to her, and i blame blizzard for that, it makes her look very unhinged because they don't show much of her being a very caring person - but there they did. She even seems to have some sort of thing for Halduron in the hunter's hall, and it seems a mutual thing. So I'm surprised at her reaction in Suramar, unless she has beef with Rommath himself. Or maybe it's just the Magister order.

[Combatbutler]

I would love to see Vereesa shoot an arrow at Rommath.

Vereesa would without a doubt join Rhonin travelling the world in different directions, becoming dust in the wind ;P

[ravenmoon]

Vereesa would without a doubt join Rhonin travelling the world in different directions, becoming dust in the wind ;P

he would not retaliate. Rommath won't let himself be bated so easily, and he is nowhere near as emotional over the whole thing as Vereesa is. He's probably look at Khadgar, Tyrande and Thalyssra as if to say "you see!? Crazy !" or "can't be trusted"

[Combatbutler]

he would not retaliate. Rommath won't let himself be bated so easily, and he is nowhere near as emotional over the whole thing as Vereesa is. He's probably look at Khadgar, Tyrande and Thalyssra as if to say "you see!? Crazy !" or "can't be trusted"

He would do Azeroth a favor though, only permanently dead windrunner is a good windrunner.

[Sangris]

then you're not being the hero you're supposed to be. You are supposed to be aware that far more than your personal feelings for the Stormrages is at stake here. Malfurion is key to the fight against the nightmare and the corruption that can overrun the world, Xavius has him - this is the situation life has presented you with, make use of the tools you are given.

Which is why I would still go after Malfurion, but without someone constantly threatening me because of something that was her husband's own fault. Actually, she is even more to blame for that because she would be THE Person who would be able to talk some sense into Malfurion. Besides, Tyrande isn't that helpful anyway, all she does is stare into some pool to get some Information where Malfruion is supposed to be, which isn't even necessary because Xavius, toying with us, leads us to him anyway. What does she instead? She runs into obviuous traps that anyone with half a brain could see through ("Tyrande! I neeeeeeeeed you *cry"*. ANYONE could see that was a fake.)

However, I have to admit that I despise characters that go full Tsundere like Tyrande, so I couldn't stand her anyway.

And yes, I'm not the hero I'm supposed to be, because Blizzard decided how my hero is supposed to be, not me. I would have done many Things differently than my character.

Tyrande measures you first, when she gets the green light she becomes your strongest supporter.

Does she though? As I said, I'd be fine with all of that, if at least she would recognize me for what I did for her and her supposedly wise husband. Instead, in Suramar she gives me shit for trying to help suffering People (many of whom she knew personally!), while obviously doing that álongside my allies.

She could say something along the lines ike "I can't say I enjoy being in the Company of your People, I'm working alongside them because of necessity. At least you have shown me that you care, and that there are some of you who aren't as bad as I thought. You could be a Bridge to Close the gap between our armies. But after this is over, I won't have anything to do with the Horde or the blood elves."

I'd be fine with that.

Instead she tells you how disappointed she is with you because your stand "alongside a bunch of mana addicts" (whether this refers to the blood elves or nightborne doesn't matter, she is in no Position to be condescending towards any of them because of their mana addiction) and to make it quick because you're apparently not worth her time.

[Koryn123]

The Well of Eternity never "imploded" from the Battle for Mt. Hyjal.

What happened was that Malfurion called a bunch of wisps with the Horn of Cenarius, and THEY all imploded around Archimonde, killing him (temporarily), the fires from his body sending out a shockwave which damaged Nordrassil and the surrounding forest.

This basically nullified the Night Elves' contract with Alextrasza, Nozdormu, and Ysera, or at least Nozdormu.

After the War of the Ancients, when the tree was first planted to prevent the energies of the new Well of Eternity from spiraling out into the Nether (not stopping it from bathing over the Night Elves' land. Quel'thalas was shielded with runestones to prevent the Sunwell's energies from spiraling out into the Nether too, that didn't stop it from bathing Quel'thalas), the three willing aspects each blessed the tree to grant a specific boon to the Night Elves.

Alextrasza blessed it with strength and vitality to give the Night Elves strength and vitality.

Ysera blessed it so druids could enter the Emerald Dream.

Nozdormu blessed it so the Night Elves would never succumb to death by age or disease, which makes for a strong combination with their strength and vitality from Alextrasza.


As you could see in Cataclysm, the Well of Eternity was still very much intact after Archimonde's defeat.

Not until Legion does it take a hit when attacked by more demons, but Nordrassil itself was untouched. The Well still has some water left, and the druids say there's still hope as long as one drop remains, so Nordrassil and the Well are fine.


So, yeah, the Darnassian Night Elves were every bit as boosted as the Nightborne, Shen'drelar Highborne, or High/Blood Elves.




Also, why is the high elves defending their kingdom a bad thing?

[derpkitteh]

She never said that she is disappointed. It's actually the opposite. She says: when I gave you the tears of Elune, I thought the next time we see each other would be at the final battle against the Legion. I didn't expect to see you at the company of mana addicts (nightborne) at the city of my birth
She is amazed about you, because she always thought that the Horde are selfish people only care about themselves and nothing else. But now she sees you accompanying the Nightborne, standing by their side and helping them. She never expected a Horde member to be like that.

no, there is no admiration in her tone there. it's disdain for the nightfallen and annoyance.

[Friendlyimmolation]

She never said that she is disappointed. It's actually the opposite. She says: when I gave you the tears of Elune, I thought the next time we see each other would be at the final battle against the Legion. I didn't expect to see you at the company of mana addicts (nightborne) at the city of my birth
She is amazed about you, because she always thought that the Horde are selfish people only care about themselves and nothing else. But now she sees you accompanying the Nightborne, standing by their side and helping them. She never expected a Horde member to be like that.

I dont think the feeling she has towards the Horde pc is that of amazement.

[Zulkhan]

He would do Azeroth a favor though, only permanently dead windrunner is a good windrunner.

Amen to that.

[ravenmoon]

...

She could say something along the lines ike "I can't say I enjoy being in the Company of your People, I'm working alongside them because of necessity. At least you have shown me that you care, and that there are some of you who aren't as bad as I thought. You could be a Bridge to Close the gap between our armies. But after this is over, I won't have anything to do with the Horde or the blood elves."

I'd be fine with that.

why do I feel that people would still complain anyway. They already changed her responses once, and look at how people are reacting. And if they made her too friendly like they've done with Malfurion in the past, people would complain about that too.

Malfurion's friendliness to the horde has earned him no love at all either, judging from the responses here.

You can't please eveyrone. Nor should you try.

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Amen to that.

aww the circlejerk in full motion

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Blizzard shouldn't even have put Tyrande as the Alliance representative in the first place. She can do her part as priestess and guide, but she should definitely leave the troops' organization and fighting to Shandris. The Horde representative should've been someone else too because Liadrin supposedly took on a neutral role at the beginning of the expansion. Shandris would've been a proper counterweight due to both the characters's militaristic nature.



Night elves died making their source of power implode upon itself in order to destroy Archimonde, whereas the elves of Quel'thalas died trying to desperately defend theirs. One race sacrificed its source of power and immortality in order to save the rest of the world, whereas the other one used to suck energy out of others beings in order to retain their power. In the end, actions speak for themselves; won't go into detail as to how many times these very same night elves saved Azeroth from numerous other threats.

As much as Tyrande is an annoying, thoroughly neglected and when not - badly written character, you don't see her sucking energy out of a Naaru imprisoned underneath Darnassus in order to feel good about herself again. Both of them end up failing outside the Nighthold regardless.

absolutely, i think people often forget what actually happeend, and seemed so lost in partisan favoritism, and so unwilling to own up to their faction's foibles.. how can they even judge Tyrande.. ofc they can't, which is why when they do, I lose respect for them.

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The Well of Eternity never "imploded" from the Battle for Mt. Hyjal.

What happened was that Malfurion called a bunch of wisps with the Horn of Cenarius, and THEY all imploded around Archimonde, killing him (temporarily), the fires from his body sending out a shockwave which damaged Nordrassil and the surrounding forest.

This basically nullified the Night Elves' contract with Alextrasza, Nozdormu, and Ysera, or at least Nozdormu.

After the War of the Ancients, when the tree was first planted to prevent the energies of the new Well of Eternity from spiraling out into the Nether (not stopping it from bathing over the Night Elves' land. Quel'thalas was shielded with runestones to prevent the Sunwell's energies from spiraling out into the Nether too, that didn't stop it from bathing Quel'thalas), the three willing aspects each blessed the tree to grant a specific boon to the Night Elves.

Alextrasza blessed it with strength and vitality to give the Night Elves strength and vitality.

Ysera blessed it so druids could enter the Emerald Dream.

Nozdormu blessed it so the Night Elves would never succumb to death by age or disease, which makes for a strong combination with their strength and vitality from Alextrasza.


As you could see in Cataclysm, the Well of Eternity was still very much intact after Archimonde's defeat.

Not until Legion does it take a hit when attacked by more demons, but Nordrassil itself was untouched. The Well still has some water left, and the druids say there's still hope as long as one drop remains, so Nordrassil and the Well are fine.


So, yeah, the Darnassian Night Elves were every bit as boosted as the Nightborne, Shen'drelar Highborne, or High/Blood Elves.




Also, why is the high elves defending their kingdom a bad thing?

It was the majority of wisps, the night elves lost a lot that day. The tree's power was depleted and as it supported the benefits to the night elves, they lost that as well, but they knew they were going to lose that, and decided too anyway.

It's one of the things I really like about them, and feel it would be awesome if they finally get some huge reward, like their civilization back, but with their reformed attitudes. I'm so pleased the nightborne led by Thalyssra have also reforemd, following the rescued shend'ralar who also seemed reformed, and after our encounter with Elisande, she'll also be reformed, the curse of the nightwell cured and that of all night elven arcane hunger/imbalance/addiction , if they cleanse and save the nightwell and the people unite to rebuild - that would be like an awesome reward for defeating the legion and make all those sacrifices worth it.

I don't think they should go another 10k years sacrificing themselves and their development, they should try to grow as strong as possible in all the areas they are talented in and then some more. They clearly have a strong arcane, nature and divine aptitude, as is shown by their past, the highborne and nightborne, the druids and the priests and they can handle fel quite well as shown as by the demon hunters. they are due a great bright end for a change that they can build on for future challenges imo.

just slight correction, Alexstrasz blessed the tree not to bless the night elves, but by linking the night elves to the tree they gained the blessings the tree had. A cynical person could view it as a very shrewd move by the dragons. The night elves could regain all the effects of those blessings by using the well again, afterall they had them with it before the first implosion. You could say by linking them to the world tree, even though Knaak writes it as a reward, it actually prevented or removed any extra temptation to delve into the arcane again to get by. Removing a huge temptation, and whiles they would miss magic for rebuilding, they'd at least have many of the benefits the had before, without needing to use the arcane and potentially imbalance themselves.

We know arcane imbalnace was the main issue with elven arcane usage back then, at least for the night elves, who blame the queen's unhinged decisions on that, the Valewalker's project failed to find a solution in time before Azshara did the unthinkable. By preventing the night elves from using the arcane, they at least prevented any potential problems, imblances or needing to use the well. besdies they convinced themselves they had compelling reason not to, even if it wasn't true, it was compelling enough to stop them usiing it. Not the highborne with them who got restless after 3,000 years. I'm sure the others were a bit too, but not enough to revolt like they did.

i would think the night elves viewed it as a necessary burden and sacrifice, one that hurt, but they would take upon themselves to make amends for their role in drawing the legion, and I think for the first itme in 10k years they can give themselves a break from that. Wolfheart and cataclysm show night elves keen to start embracing magic again and learn from the highborne which indicates to me, that it's something they've wanted to for a long time, but denied themselves through discipline because of their selflessness and the fact that much more was at stake.

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no, there is no admiration in her tone there. it's disdain for the nightfallen and annoyance.

i think you're overreading her tone. Her tone has no disdain in it. A hint of annoyance, yes... Tyrande is too smart and not arrogant. That's not her MO, she is fierce and independent. A strong independent black woman.

This is personal to Tyrande. It isn't to any other elven group but the night elves. To Liadrin, the nightborne are distant relations like the night elves are. But the night elves of the alliance all come from Suramar, to them, the nightborne are their friends and family who hid/whom they left behind, - whom they thought the legion destroyed.

Tyrande is annoyed they hid instead, and now have allowed a repeat of the folly of the war of the ancients, in her city of birth. I Whiles Thalyssra has not been party to such a move by Elisande, you can see Tyrande's disapointment and anger, but you can see her put that aside and actually poor her heart into helping them. You can tell that from the tone of her voice in the WQs she gives you there.

[Friendlyimmolation]

i think you're overreading her tone. Her tone has no disdain in it. A hint of annoyance, yes... Tyrande is too smart and not arrogant. That's not her MO, she is fierce and independent. A strong independent black woman.

Tyrande not arrogant?

This is personal to Tyrande. It isn't to any other elven group but the night elves. To Liadrin, the nightborne are distant relations like the night elves are. But the night elves of the alliance all come from Suramar, to them, the nightborne are their friends and family who hid/whom they left behind, - whom they thought the legion destroyed.

to say all the night elves of the Alliance came from surumar is a stretch to say the least.