Burn Outs

[Fayenoor]

Just an idea but did they quit *the guild* or are they just not raiding at the moment? I stopped raiding a few weeks ago since the end of the semester is coming up and finals are brutal. Are the people that "quit" students?

The quit the game, not the guild. They are all bnet friends and I play other bnet games with them occasionally like OW, D3 (we have been gaming together in various games for 5+ years). They just don't feel any interest in WoW. As their GM, I would love to have them raid again. But as a gaming friend, I understand and would rather they enjoy w/e game they are playing now than be forced to raid with me for friendship sake.

And no, they are not students, they are all working professionals. We were all fairly hardcore once (back in TBC, WoTLK timeframe). Real life caught on, and we became more casual. We still love gaming and WoW; so we continued raiding in a more laid back manner. Looks like for some of us, that love for WoW just fizzed out and I am trying to figure out why.

[Coldvibes]

The quit the game, not the guild. They are all bnet friends and I play other bnet games with them occasionally like OW, D3 (we have been gaming together in various games for 5+ years). They just don't feel any interest in WoW. As their GM, I would love to have them raid again. But as a gaming friend, I understand and would rather they enjoy w/e game they are playing now than be forced to raid with me for friendship sake.

And no, they are not students, they are all working professionals. We were all fairly hardcore once (back in TBC, WoTLK timeframe). Real life caught on, and we became more casual. We still love gaming and WoW; so we continued raiding in a more laid back manner. Looks like for some of us, that love for WoW just fizzed out and I am trying to figure out why.

It's acceptable to admit that you've also outgrown WoW on top of just simply not having the time required to do what you desire in-game (Mythic raiding). Life is simpler than you think.

[MyndZero]

Can confirm I quit from burnout, a bunch of other people I know have as well. Personally, I feel like M+ should have a limit, or you should only be able to do M+ OR Raids, not BOTH in that week.

[bmjclark]

I've had 1 person from my initial group give up and quit the game out of like 7. The other 5 still playing are people who don't normally play through an expansion at all. I've still never seen burn out like i saw in WoD with people quitting my guild at a rate of 2 per week until we were forced to disband.

[Dug]

The quit the game, not the guild. They are all bnet friends and I play other bnet games with them occasionally like OW, D3 (we have been gaming together in various games for 5+ years). They just don't feel any interest in WoW. As their GM, I would love to have them raid again. But as a gaming friend, I understand and would rather they enjoy w/e game they are playing now than be forced to raid with me for friendship sake.

And no, they are not students, they are all working professionals. We were all fairly hardcore once (back in TBC, WoTLK timeframe). Real life caught on, and we became more casual. We still love gaming and WoW; so we continued raiding in a more laid back manner. Looks like for some of us, that love for WoW just fizzed out and I am trying to figure out why.

Eh even "casual" raiding is sometimes just too much. Towards the end of WoD my guild was progressing through M HFC pretty damn casually and even I just got bored of it and the time commitment. I could make the time but sometimes I didn't feel like playing or I wanted to play something else in that time slot so I just took a break from raiding. A lot of people just kind of stopped showing up and we eventually put raiding on hold until Legion came back (new content). In a way it was burn out but we raided casually the entire expansion and even that gets tiring after awhile.

Maybe when Nighthold comes out they'll be back. The majority of our raiders came back with Legion.

[healzforu]

My guild split up because of the same situation, we had quite a few that went social or quit, then when we were having trouble filling the raid for a couple weeks, a couple other's went to another guild, not that i blame them. After that i personally decided not to pursue another guild and instead quit, and play my ps4 more, eventually i'll come back but at this time, im just plain out bored with the game, i was only raiding to help the guild out, with so many quitting or moving to social, but deep down, im actually happy about it.. Still enjoy wow, but at this point, im happy to be done with it for awhile, at least until 7.2 to see the new raid and any changes.

[Dire]

Might have been a leadership issue.

[Echocho]

Running the same dungeons hundreds of times every week just to keep up with everyone else and you're surprised that players get burned out in exactly the same manner they got bored in WOD. Blizzard are known for going from one extreme to another.

[Samodin]

Hunters and fire mages read the PTR patch notes and, after granting you their last goodbyes, headed to their garage, holding a rope..

[Meggle]

Yeah my guild experienced this too, lost about 4-5 people and another similarly progressed guild just up and quit all together (some are signing up to raid with us is how we know). All since thanksgiving break.

[Rotomon]

I like doing burn outs but tires are expensive.

OT: I have felt a bit of it here and there but when I get bored ill play something else for a few days and then go back. Console games seem to give me that filler when Im wanting to do something different for the time being.

[Lei]

After spending my money for 1-2 months on logging in in the mornings for 5 min to check if I can get closer to a damn pet battle achieve and the game was telling me no so I logged off for the day, I just let my sub run out. This is the first time since Cataclysm (before Firelands) when I don't have an active account.

In all these years I could sit down and log in into the game with a plan. Yes, I will farm some rep/do some dailies for this faction, I will go for this achieve, I will get my badges so I can buy this gear in 2 weeks etc. Now? I log in and everything is rng. I sit down with 3 hours of free time to play and the game is telling me basically to fuck off because that tamer I need is not up, so I can't progress in that achieve, it's telling me it's kirin tor day and I am exalted with them for 7 years so no rep that day. Professions are a mess, gearing is a mess, factions are mess. In the past I could always find something that was still fun for me in the game, even when I didn't raid. What kind of mmo prohibits you to freely find your own fun moments?
Saddest thing is that people seem happy with this type of "content" so if things go this way, I don't have anything to come back to.

[Reachie10]

In all these years I could sit down and log in into the game with a plan. Yes, I will farm some rep/do some dailies for this faction, I will go for this achieve, I will get my badges so I can buy this gear in 2 weeks etc. Now? I log in and everything is rng. I sit down with 3 hours of free time to play and the game is telling me basically to fuck off because that tamer I need is not up, so I can't progress in that achieve, it's telling me it's kirin tor day and I am exalted with them for 7 years so no rep that day. Professions are a mess, gearing is a mess, factions are mess. In the past I could always find something that was still fun for me in the game, even when I didn't raid. What kind of mmo prohibits you to freely find your own fun moments?

This is the exact reason I think people are getting burned out.

You used to be able to work towards a goal, now everything is RNG.

Fucking Blizzard.

[jettzypher]

What kind of mmo prohibits you to freely find your own fun moments? Saddest thing is that people seem happy with this type of "content" so if things go this way, I don't have anything to come back to.

Everything has a cap on it. I love visiting old raids for the gear or mounts and typically spend much of my free time doing that. Friends like to visit them for their achievements. These things run out and we're left with nothing else to do and need to find some other objective to do in-game or go play something else in the interim. Not every element of the game can have a high ceiling to keep people engaged for an extensive amount of time nor can it feature elements for every single person. Sorry that what you like no longer exists, but that's just the way it is.

You used to be able to work towards a goal, now everything is RNG.

Except there are plenty of goals that you can set and work towards that aren't 100% rng based.

[Akka]

Raiding is draining but what's even more draining is having to show up at fixed times to play a videogame.

For many it will feel like a job and they often quit after a while.

I hope for you that you never have a team-based hobby, like football or chess or painting lessons or whatever, if fixed times are such a burden...

[Lei]

Except there are plenty of goals that you can set and work towards that aren't 100% rng based.

This is the typical "because I said so" type of comeback I would expect here. I have stated many examples that are my goals in the game and I am unable to progress in them because rng (well you can say world quests are not strictly rng but still same difference).

[araine]

Worth it more than before? Before - valor points for dependable upgrades. Now - loot lottery with absolutely zero guarantee of progress.

Considering the amount of complaints (and unsubs and general exodus of a large portion of the player base in a short time frame) about RNG loot this xpac and the lack of the same volume of complaints with the point system, I would say it is safe to assume which one the playerbase as a whole prefers.

Yes the current RNG chance of actually getting a fantastic item.

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My guild that I've been playing with since WotLK stopped raiding recently. People are getting sick of the AP/legendary grind. They lost half of their roster last week, and officers completely lack the motivation and devotion to this soulless korean level grinding simulator to do a massive recruiting drive. Just a few months after launch, and people have motivation issues to even log on.

And if you want to know why I said "they" and not "we", it's because I quit two weeks after Legion launch. I don't want to be that "I TOLD YOU" guy, but I sooo seen this coming, and no one believed me. I flat out said that I refuse to do the AP grind for months upon months, and even more if I want to actually enjoy my offspecs. I was told that it won't be an issue, just a few weeks of casual grinding and we'll be fine. I show them the math, and I was laughed at for saying that it will take several months to max out a single spec. Then I was told that it's enough to get the gold traits, and those "0.5% hidden traits are such a small increase that you don't need to get them". Guess what, they failed mythic dps checks since half of the raid had shitty AP levels and barely any legendaries.

I can confidently say that Blizzard either has absolutely no clue about the effects on the pve scene these artifacts and legendaries have, or just flat out doesn't care about mythic raiders. Both options are equally sad.

That they have created a game rewarding for folks that arent mythic raiders only is a good thing. that some mythic+ wannabes cant handle the content is a fault from those players and guilds not blizzard.

[Hendawgg]

I have +7 to +11% of my entire damage in a fight coming from one gold talent, and 5 % from a single trinket proc.
It means that about 12 to 16 % of my damage is one trinket + one artifact rank. That's about what was one entire tier of gear in earlier WoW. Legendaries have even more impact.
And you're going to say that AP/legendaries/gear isn't something that hold a team back ?

You're trying to equate what's helpful to what's holding your team back. A stat increase certainly helps. And your ONE artifact trait, how long does that even take to get? Hardly any time at all. I have all 3 Golden artifact traits on both my main weapon and my offspec, and as i said before, i don't grind AP. It comes naturally just from doing what i enjoy doing. Winning BG's, downing bosses....I'll WQ when i feel like it. I don't bother with M+. I don't do a damn thing that i don't want to do, and certainly don't "grind" any of it.

As far as your trinket goes, that's silly logic. Are you not getting anything out of ANY trinket? I mean, 5% of your dmg comes from your trinket....that's nice and all....but if you're not getting at minimum 3-5% out of mostly any trinket, then you're doing something wrong.

Last night during our Mythic Ursoc Kill i got 4% out of my Mythic Plagueheart Trink. You know how much i had to grind for that? Nothing. I didn't grind at all. I showed up and raided.

No grinding necessary. Which is exactly my point.

Now, there may be another Trink out there that could yield me an extra 1-2% dmg, but 1-2% dmg isn't holding my raid back.

Instead, if i want to make up another 1-2% dmg w/o breaking my neck grinding unnecessarily, you know what i could do? Play better.

Hell, RNG swings in any given fight could make that up easily.

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Running the same dungeons hundreds of times every week just to keep up with everyone else and you're surprised that players get burned out in exactly the same manner they got bored in WOD. Blizzard are known for going from one extreme to another.

Hyperbole much?

Hundreds of times every week?

LMAO

Get the F out of here with that non sense.

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For those crying that you have to "Grind" AP.....how's your AP knowledge? Leveling AP knowledge consists of logging in and clicking the NPC and then logging off for two days.

If that's too much effort for you, then maybe MMO's just aren't your thing.

Two weeks ago me, my wife and some guildies decided to RBG for fun. Between Friday and Saturday night, we went 14-3 as some noobs just pvping together for the first time.

It yielded enough AP to take my O/S weapon from one Golden Trait to 3.

And all i did to "earn" it was have fun with my friends and family doing something that i enjoy doing. That's it. No Grind whatsoever. I did nothing that i didn't want to do. I wasn't even TRYING to grind AP. It fell in my lap while playing the game and doing what i felt like doing at the moment.

These complaints are just ridiculous.

Maybe the problem isn't the "Grind". Maybe the problem is that you just aren't into WoW anymore.

[Jigga93]

playing casually and working on my 35th trait.

[Fayenoor]

Might have been a leadership issue.

It is almost always a leadership issue; and as a leader I am trying to understand what can I do to make the game feel better for the raiders? Maybe some non raid guild activities might help.