Legion is a grind because...

[Ghrog]

I just shake my head at statements like this. That's part of what makes the game less alt-friendly. Previously, you could just get dungeon/crafted gear and be considered ready to start raiding. Now you have all these other things you can do, raid ready requirements have risen dramatically and as a result it takes a lot more grinding to get raid ready. And with the endless grind of titanforged pieces, better legendaries, mythic 10+ gear and so on, raid requirements increase every day as the population continues to gear rather than the "raid ready" requirement staying relatively static due to hitting a gear wall without actually raiding.

How is more options a bad thing. It is litterally the same amount of effort (if not less), only with more options in how to get there.

How some of you people refuse to see that just absolutely baffles me.

[kary]

I just shake my head at statements like this. That's part of what makes the game less alt-friendly. Previously, you could just get dungeon/crafted gear and be considered ready to start raiding. Now you have all these other things you can do, raid ready requirements have risen dramatically and as a result it takes a lot more grinding to get raid ready. And with the endless grind of titanforged pieces, better legendaries, mythic 10+ gear and so on, raid requirements increase every day as the population continues to gear rather than the "raid ready" requirement staying relatively static due to hitting a gear wall without actually raiding.

Lol raid ready with craftables in which expansion? This literally happened once in WoTLK and never again.

[Mrbubbles17]

Well yeah MMOs are grindy but Legion is the grindiest WoW have ever been.

And how its so unfriendly to alts and off specs, thats why I quit. I usually loved to play several classes but as how much you fall behind and can never really catch up with "main specs or people" nah thanks.

Lol you obviously haven't grinded Cenarion Circle to hit exalted for nature resist gear for AQ40 in Classic WoW.

I do see the OP's point in saying that Legion is "grindy" but in all honesty what aspect of any MMORPG isn't grindy?

Legion = Artifact Power Grinds.
TBC = Rep grinds to unlock heroic dungeons / attunements for every raid.
Vanilla = Fire resist farm, Nature Resist farm, Ice resist farm.

MMO'S by nature are sorta "grindy." I personally feel its hard to get rid of that aspect in the genre.

[BananaHandsB]

How is more options a bad thing. It is litterally the same amount of effort (if not less), only with more options in how to get there.

How some of you people refuse to see that just absolutely baffles me.

Options are good, but if they are too rewarding they become a requirement.

[lightofdawn]

Well yeah MMOs are grindy but Legion is the grindiest WoW have ever been.

And how its so unfriendly to alts and off specs, thats why I quit. I usually loved to play several classes but as how much you fall behind and can never really catch up with "main specs or people" nah thanks.

okay, bye.

OT: mmo's are meant to be grindy. the point of a roleplaying game is essentially that you're not supposed to be able to have more than one persona or character, as that character is your face in the virtual world.. its still possible to have alts, but dont be stupid and think it'll be a cakewalk to have 12 raid ready beast machines, because that's not going to happen

[Deleted]

Lol you obviously haven't grinded Cenarion Circle to hit exalted for nature resist gear for AQ40 in Classic WoW.

I do see the OP's point in saying that Legion is "grindy" but in all honesty what aspect of any MMORPG isn't grindy?

Legion = Artifact Power Grinds.
TBC = Rep grinds to unlock heroic dungeons / attunements for every raid.
Vanilla = Fire resist farm, Nature Resist farm, Ice resist farm.

MMO'S by nature are sorta "grindy." I personally feel its hard to get rid of that aspect in the genre.

Yes I have. But are people so fucking dumb to understand. Grinding rep yes, but you have an end goal. In Legion you dont really. You can keep on grinding AP 24/7 and if you even do it on an off spec or alt you fall behind. THAT isnt fun or good grind. You lose shit but not gridning 24/7 on 1 character. People brining up LUL vanilla was grindy.
I played vanilla hardcore, it had grind but it wasnt the same grind. You could do sessions and play alts and when you played on said alt, it didnt feel like you fall behind with your main or others as you do in Legion.

Attunements = done them, you are good. Legion = Grind main 24/7 for AP and chance for legendaries / item upgrades no matter what you do. Whats so fucking difficult to see? You will never catch up to someone with AP if you start now compared to someone that played from start on 1 character.

But if you guys think Legion is the best thing in history without flaws, ok.

[Deleted]

quick summary of most wows problems:

no danger => no challenge => no fun

Thats true - for small percentage of playerbase.

[Lime]

Exactly! The amount of effort required is almost the same, only with Mythic+ it's easier to get to that upper tier of gear.

Just because there are more steps doesn't mean there's more work, only more variety which equals less of a grind and a fresher more interesting experience.

It's becoming obvious that no matter how much personal experience I provide and no matter how much evidence I provide, you refuse to listen and keep bringing up points that I have refuted, so I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

But more steps does mean that it takes longer when you factor in... What takes longer - Gearing up for one set of content, then having to re-gear for another OR Gearing up for one set of content, then having to re-gear for another, and then having to do it yet again?

This is why I added the boosted method at the bottom, to show you the optimal way to gear up if you have friends/a guild to help. You can still skip steps in both of those, it's just less likely.

- Boosted, Wrath was a day of heroic LFD spam, then you slam into the Normal Raid wall with it's weekly lockouts, then afterwards, you were ready for Heroic.
- Boosted, Legion was a day of low Mythic+ 3 chest spamming, then you slam into the Normal Raid wall with it's weekly lockout, then the Heroic wall with it's lockout, then you were ready to join your guild in Mythic.

The extra difficulty that was added is what makes Legion take longer. It's another weekly wall you have to wait to overcome. And I'm not mentioning the separate lockouts in Wrath because while that meant more loot, Legion also has personal loot to offset that when it comes to boosting players.

[Deleted]

Lol you obviously haven't grinded Cenarion Circle to hit exalted for nature resist gear for AQ40 in Classic WoW.

I do see the OP's point in saying that Legion is "grindy" but in all honesty what aspect of any MMORPG isn't grindy?

Legion = Artifact Power Grinds.
TBC = Rep grinds to unlock heroic dungeons / attunements for every raid.
Vanilla = Fire resist farm, Nature Resist farm, Ice resist farm.

MMO'S by nature are sorta "grindy." I personally feel its hard to get rid of that aspect in the genre.

Huh ? I did. That wasn't even hard, and certainly was a goal. Legion's grind is just a slot machine which is its problem. The AP is actually not bad until you get enough AK. It sucks for anyone who missed or plans to reroll tho.

[Mrbubbles17]

Yes I have. But are people so fucking dumb to understand. Grinding rep yes, but you have an end goal. In Legion you dont really. You can keep on grinding AP 24/7 and if you even do it on an off spec or alt you fall behind. THAT isnt fun or good grind. You lose shit but not gridning 24/7 on 1 character. People brining up LUL vanilla was grindy.
I played vanilla hardcore, it had grind but it wasnt the same grind. You could do sessions and play alts and when you played on said alt, it didnt feel like you fall behind with your main or others as you do in Legion.

Attunements = done them, you are good. Legion = Grind main 24/7 for AP and chance for legendaries / item upgrades no matter what you do. Whats so fucking difficult to see? You will never catch up to someone with AP if you start now compared to someone that played from start on 1 character.

But if you guys think Legion is the best thing in history without flaws, ok.

Calm down my friend! We're having a discussion without calling individuals dumb or belittling them. I simply have a difference of opinion and no where in my post did I claim that Legion was the best thing in history without flaws lol. Quite frankly I don't like the AP grind in legion either I wasn't defending it in the least. I simply stated that all expansions in their own right have a form of grind. If anything I agreed with you by stating that every expansion has a different "grindy" feel to it.

However, I personally disagree with you in the sense that alts in vanilla were easier to bring up to speed for relevant content vs legion alts (especially since everything is so RNG heavy). I can guarantee that for 1/4 of the time I spent on alts my toons weren't "raid ready" or "content ready" because I still had to do the necessary relevant grind at the time to get them there. I made a warlock alt in legion and I got lucky with a legendary, finishing the order hall quest line to unlock the third relic slot, and completing world quests, heroics and mythics to get to 860 in no time, literally in a week or so with minimal effort.

Don't forget that the artifact knowledge research has been made easier for alts to catch up by a crap ton!

[kary]

Where's this crap coming from? My guild finished in top 50 in both HFC and EN. We basically no longer raid ToV because I LOST HALF MY RAIDERS due to legendary discontent, incoming nerfs and M+ grind. I might decide to rebuild, but no longer have the energy to do so now.

Lol.
Losing raiders due to them not getting orange drops is hilarious, must be awful. Most of the people here are those that don't set foot in raids and do garbage level content and complain, so my apologies, however I still maintain that playing all day chasing legendaries is dumb, said that from day one.
They aren't guaranteed, nor are they mandatory. If people burned themselves out chasing a dream, that must be pretty unfortunate to have to suffer. Though, I don't know anyone that kept farming hardcore after the first 2 weeks of EN apart from doing caches daily, for what it's worth.

[Hendawgg]

You know what is a grind in this game?

Rep.

I hate grinding rep.

So you know what? I haven't bothered with it. I have yet to unlock Court of Stars or w/e that other dungeon is called because i can't stand Rep grinding and i ESPECIALLY hate Suramar questing. The other zones im revered in only because i do the WQ's when i'm bored and feel like it.

Yet im still 881 ilvl and just killed Mythic Iggy last night. Go figure.

[schwarzkopf]

Fun fact - Legion has NO grind.

If you think it does - then you are deluded.

Want some grind - try vanilla goblin reps.

[Hendawgg]

I haven't done Kara either. Know why? Because i haven't bothered to to do the Mythics required to unlock it.

Don'tcurr.

Play the game the way you want to play it.

[MoanaLisa]

Yes I have. But are people so fucking dumb to understand. Grinding rep yes, but you have an end goal. In Legion you dont really. You can keep on grinding AP 24/7 and if you even do it on an off spec or alt you fall behind.

Fall behind who exactly?

Everyone works under the same system. You play more, you get somewhere faster. If someone is keeping you out of their group because you have 33 traits instead of 35, that's just stupid and a social problem.

Do what's fun; do what you like. Stuff will come to you. Think about what "fall behind" really means and see if it truly matters. Plenty of people are doing just fine without wanting to blow their brains out over something they don't like doing in the first place.

[kary]

I haven't done Kara either. Know why? Because i haven't bothered to to do the Mythics required to unlock it.

Don'tcurr.

Play the game the way you want to play it.

one hundred thousand million billion trillion times this.

[Hendawgg]

Speaking of Vanilla, remember when we had to farm for Fire resist gear to get into MC?

Lol @ legion grind.

- - - Updated - - -

I never really know what to say to people who confuse doing stuff that they really don't have to do with being grindy. I'm doing fine and not grinding anything. I play when I like, do what I like and stuff moves along. If you are being forced to maintain a lot of alts by a guild for raiding purposes, personally I'd look for another guild. If you enjoy playing alts then the complaint seems to be they'll have something to do.

None of it makes any sense at all if you approach the game with your head screwed onto your shoulders.

Play. Have fun. Don't take it all so seriously.

Amen, brother. I don't get it either.

[Lime]

Fun fact - Legion has NO grind.

Except for the fact that it does. Everyone MMO is going to have a grind of some sorts, Legion is no different.

You don't even have to think that it's a hard grind, but the grinding certainly exists.

[Deleted]

Speaking of Vanilla, remember when we had to farm for Fire resist gear to get into MC?

Another clueless lad who obviously didn't raid in Vanilla but still wants to pretend like he did using the nonsense that others had lead him to believe.
Aside from Ragnaros, no boss on MC required fire resist gear (at all), the only exception, Ragnaros, wasn't actually that hard to achieve the FR neither was mandatory except if the strat required it (i was a lock, and never used FR at Ragnaros, pots were enough), and the persons who needed the biggest amount would be equipped by the combined effort of the complete roster (which meant, it wasn't grindy at all).

And still, those grinds (which happened for huhuran, or in my case, twin emperors) had a goal in mind which was obtainable and it worked as an RPG perfectly. Legion's itemization grind feels like going to Las Vegas most of the time.

[schwarzkopf]

Except for the fact that it does.

You are incorrect. If you were correct - you could name one case where repeated killing of the same mob thousands of times is required for any of the game.

There is none.