Did TBC ever get any complaints in its time?

[Deleted]

People also complained that the old world died, as anyone lvl 58+ just moved to outlands.

!!!
I remember that one. Yet another one of these things that have become completely normal.
This was an even bigger problem until Cataclysm finally brought flying to Azeroth.

[Banquetto]

... and the huge increase in powerlevels for gear. I.e. that BC greens could be better than Vanilla epics. Nowadays it's normal but back then, I remember a lot of people feeling hard done by as their hard-earned T2 was suddenly no longer a thing.

Ah, yes, true that. I'd forgotten that one. First experience of replacing hard-won raid epics with green quest rewards from the first Hellfire Peninsula quest caused a lot of angst. Everyone's used to it now, so much so that it caused real astonishment that good WoD jewelry had so much life in Legion, due to the removal of primary stats from Legion jewelry.

[Sylvaeres]

Pain in the ass but Kara was a interesting raid...loved doing chess.

Oh for sure, it was a fun raid. I started playing when Sunwell was released, hit level cap right around then. It was very annoying to convince people to go there, but my first few runs through that and Mag's Lair (yes I know, nothing special but it was my first raid and felt truly epic) made me fall in love with raidinv

[Dhrizzle]

To be fair, it was also possible to gear up very quickly as a DPS later on and skip Heroics entirely by BGing for a full set of Season gear. For some specs, the stats and bonuses on Season gear was actually BiS pre-raid, though that's an outlier--it was just typically better than Heroic gear pound-for-pound through sheer stats, so long as you hit-capped somehow, even with the lost stats to Resilience and weighing toward Stamina. That's where the 'welfare epics' thing got its start, since you could lose BGs and still eventually get enough Honor for a set of s2 by 2.4.

Isn't it Arena gear people mostly wore? I remember there being some grumblings about it only being recoloured tier gear and looking too much like "proper" epics. Lots of people started raiding in a S1 gear and pretty much every caster I know who was still in tier 4 content when season 2 came out went for the staff because it had a humongous amount of +hit on it.

[kary]

Isn't it Arena gear people mostly wore? I remember there being some grumblings about it only being recoloured tier gear and looking too much like "proper" epics. Lots of people started raiding in a S1 gear and pretty much every caster I know who was still in tier 4 content when season 2 came out went for the staff because it had a humongous amount of +hit on it.

Yeah basically the feeders wore a lot of pvp gear back in the day. Then for the S3 items (which were on par to BT weapons) they added a rating requirement.
I guess ioqd was the next step up from s2 weapons.

[Dhrizzle]

Back then, you couldn't do dungeons unless you had hard CC, so basically mages/hunters, rogues at a pinch.

One of the things that really annoyed me in TBC was people thinking that 'locks didn't have any CC. Seduction (succubus ability) was at least as reliable as hunter traps, Banish was unbreakable CC on demons (of which there were plenty) and at a pinch you could pull way back and use fear on another target if the 'lock knew how to juggle with CoRecklessness. Then there's Enslave Demon which made a lot of the trickier pulls in the Mechanar into a complete joke.

People also forget that dps Warriors, Paladins and Druids could strap on a shield, turn into a bear and hit their tanky-mode buttons to off-tank a mob or two at the start of a pull, spreading the damage to a more manageable level for the healer and taking some of the pressure off the sunder-spamming warrior. Rogues could do the same with Evasion tanking and let's not forget that whilst Sap wasn't the most reliable of CC it was hilarious when it failed and got the Rogue one-shot.

[Fullmetal89]

Yes all the time, especially when it came to class balance.

[Mirishka]

The vocal minority bitched as much about BC as they have any expansion, and Wrath was trashed endlessly. And yet according to many of those very people, these 2 expansions represent the pinnacle of WoW.

/smh

[kary]

One of the things that really annoyed me in TBC was people thinking that 'locks didn't have any CC. Seduction (succubus ability) was at least as reliable as hunter traps, Banish was unbreakable CC on demons (of which there were plenty) and at a pinch you could pull way back and use fear on another target if the 'lock knew how to juggle with CoRecklessness. Then there's Enslave Demon which made a lot of the trickier pulls in the Mechanar into a complete joke.

People also forget that dps Warriors, Paladins and Druids could strap on a shield, turn into a bear and hit their tanky-mode buttons to off-tank a mob or two at the start of a pull, spreading the damage to a more manageable level for the healer and taking some of the pressure off the sunder-spamming warrior. Rogues could do the same with Evasion tanking and let's not forget that whilst Sap wasn't the most reliable of CC it was hilarious when it failed and got the Rogue one-shot.

You mean sacrificing a druid/paladin? lol. Unless they went full tanking gear they generally were highkey useless, since they'd get crushing blows/crit to death. Ferals couldn't dps in tank gear, either. Though, I guess you could root mobs in old hillsbrad, so druids weren't 100% useless.

I didn't add warlocks mainly because I forgot even though I have 3 (including a 110) but yes, ranged dps were generally favoured in tbc 5mans from my experience. I'd take a hunter/mage/lock core over anything. And I will agree that a good lock is prob the best single class, especially around demons since you can effectively cc 3 mobs. Finding a good lock in a pug though, yeah.

[Footpaws]

Not really. Everyone else in this thread saying otherwise obviously never posted on the forums. A lot of it was bug reports and general QA people were not posting "I quit!" threads all the time and so forth. Hence subs were rising not falling for once throughout all expansions until Cata.

[Hctaz]

I hardly played back then and I never hit max level but I remember my RL friends and guildies who were max level complain about quite a bit.

Epic flying was expensive and required for anybody who wanted to get Netherwing rep I knew some people who really wanted those mounts even if they also really hated repetitive dailies.

Kara was fun but really annoying to run sometimes due to the length of the raid being artificially inflated from the sheer size of the place. Epics were everywhere and this was only a big thing for former raiders. In Vanilla I believe like... 2 or 3 items dropped per boss kill for 40 people and you were incredibly lucky if you got one outside of the raid from some random mob drop. That's not a lot of epics for the raid. They were a lot easier to obtain in TBC and it made them feel less special. This was also exacerbated because of how dorky and mismatched almost all of the non raiding gear was and how cool the actual tier looked.

Heroic dungeons being hard got some complaints but I think the biggest complaint was the difference in difficulty. All of the dungeons were supposed to be the same sort of level and if I recall they all dropped the same level of loot, (with the exception of any added later) yet some were much easier than others. It seemed like some were a good middle ground but others were just way too hard and some were way too easy (comparatively). This basically made it most efficient to run only some of the dungeons.

I don't remember anybody complaining about attunement quests personally but maybe I missed it. Maybe the people in my guild were bad and only ran Kara or something. I don't really remember. Like I said, I didn't raid with them so I have no idea what they did.

[Dethiz2ez]

One of the things that really annoyed me in TBC was people thinking that 'locks didn't have any CC. Seduction (succubus ability) was at least as reliable as hunter traps, Banish was unbreakable CC on demons (of which there were plenty) and at a pinch you could pull way back and use fear on another target if the 'lock knew how to juggle with CoRecklessness. Then there's Enslave Demon which made a lot of the trickier pulls in the Mechanar into a complete joke.

People also forget that dps Warriors, Paladins and Druids could strap on a shield, turn into a bear and hit their tanky-mode buttons to off-tank a mob or two at the start of a pull, spreading the damage to a more manageable level for the healer and taking some of the pressure off the sunder-spamming warrior. Rogues could do the same with Evasion tanking and let's not forget that whilst Sap wasn't the most reliable of CC it was hilarious when it failed and got the Rogue one-shot.

In H Shattered on my hunter in SV, I'd trap one and kite 3 until my tank told me to FD. Made that dreaded 7-8? pull a piece of cake.

[Dhrizzle]

You mean sacrificing a druid/paladin? lol. Unless they went full tanking gear they generally were highkey useless, since they'd get crushing blows/crit to death. Ferals couldn't dps in tank gear, either. Though, I guess you could root mobs in old hillsbrad, so druids weren't 100% useless.

Considering the off-tank would only be tanking the {skull} or {cross} there wasn't too much of an issue with them dying.

[kary]

Considering the off-tank would only be tanking the {skull} or {cross} there wasn't too much of an issue with them dying.

Eh, what you're proposing/reminiscing doesn't make any sense at all, since it would be easier to just nuke one target than try to heal 2 tanks but sure.

[Rekz]

People were blown away when TBC came out. There was so much to do and everyone was happy (Toxic threads were fewer back then). From 25 man raids, 10 man raids, heroic dungeons (all hard as fuq), arena, new bgs, new content, it made vanilla look like a steaming pile of garbage. TBC was mind blowing.

Edit: Blizzard has the best raid engine in the world. Even back then, raids were adaptive and very hard, but downing a boss after 3 weeks of wiping was satisfying beyond anything I can describe today.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Plenty, just the fact that paladin and shaman became cross faction created a huge uproar and Kalgan was deemed the worst senior game designer ever. lol

I thought that was the best thing ever. I hated my damage being hard capped by threat and alliance being able to do 30% dps more.. but then the hardcore faction fanbois are retarded to this day when they immerse themselves in this artificial conflict.

Things to bitch about back then:
Epic loot in a dungeon.
Epic loot in a "raid" with 10 people.
Epic loot in a "raid" with 25 people.
Raids with less than 40 people.
Class changes .. so many class changes.
New races.
Bots.
Attunements.
Loot - in every conceivable facet.
Mote grinding.
...

[Powerogue]

I explicitly remember:
-clown suit armor (wotlk resolved this by making everything a similar shade of grayish-brown as you leveled)
-complaining about flying ruining world pvp by people just swooping in to kill you
-"why are we killing illidan, he's such a cool dude and major lore character. Next you'll say we're killing ARTHAS! D:<"

And even though we didn't complain about it at the time because we didn't have expansions to compare it to, would you really want to go back to having to tactically CC every single trash pack of heroics?

[MoanaLisa]

And even though we didn't complain about it at the time because we didn't have expansions to compare it to, would you really want to go back to having to tactically CC every single trash pack of heroics?

I wouldn't mind it myself and I'm sure others would join me but the first round of Cataclysm heroics settled that question once and for all. No.

[Irian]

Oh my god yes. TBC was easily the most negatively-received expansion I saw in WoW's history before and during its time.

Paladins and shaman being given to the other side almost seemed like a betrayal at the time of the entire heart of what WoW was, and many players thought it akin to just allowing players to party with the other faction. They were both known for being exclusive and many players grew to see them as the most iconic features of the two factions. Although I was personally excited for it since day one, it was bitched about almost daily on LFG.

Daily quests were considered nauseating timesinks that demanded constant attention with the same crap daily. Skettis and Ogrila dailies were horrendous if you dared to try them using a 60% speed mount, and the game loved to implement crap that knocked you off your flying mount and falling unceremoniously to your death. Dailies were in my experiences pretty much all negatively received upon release, at least for a while.

Flying mounts were also heavily criticized for being a bit too safe outside of those particular areas. Since the promotional stuff showed flying mounts being way differently handled, people weren't expecting swimming in the skybox at fast speeds...but that's precisely what we got. 60% flight speed was miserable as well and led to many people simply remaining on the ground as it was actually faster travel. Worse yet, being restricted to level cap at the time meant that low levels had to endure being able to be ganked with impunity by level 70s who would simply fly into the air if anyone tried to defend them. World PvP died in BC, for better or worse.

And...the most popular complaint, attunements...attunements, attunements, attunements. In order to do basically anything you had to climb the ladder from the bottom in Burning Crusade. Nothing came easy. Many people look back on this with nostalgia goggles but it was kind of hell if you ever dared to consider main changing. Worse yet, if you played some classes and specs you would simply not find groups. As a warlock I truly enjoyed my 1-button wonder SM/Ruin spec that topped the charts...not at all.

An honorable mention also goes to the lore, because fucking lol. It's hard to realize in hindsight because you're no longer in it, but spending two years going from a medieval fantasy setting set in the Warcraft universe to battling Kael'thas on a space ship at the behest of a fucking sentient windchime and its army of mini Archimondes was truly a shark-jumping moment if there ever was one. BC had the worst lore of any expansion bar none because it was 90% just stuff pulled out of Blizzard's ass sloppily thrown in. I would rank Warlords of Draenor's story even better lore-wise than this expansion because at least the end-expansion boss didn't involve a story that basically nobody knew or cared about. It took me over a year to find out who the hell Anveena was because I truly did not care.

[clavarnway]

It received many, yes. From profound hatred of Shadow Labyrinth, to the bizarre and seemingly endless attunement process for Karazhan and other raids, and reputation grinds that truly emphasized the word "grind."

Don't forget the required shadow resist stacking for Mother. I remember making an alliance alt on my server and whispering the GM of the top guild on ally, so we could arrange to buy the rare crafting mat from BT (heart of darkness?). the Shadow resist gear needs a bunch of them, and we successfully bought a ton from them at a reduced bulk price so we would not get blocked at Mother while we farmed them up ourselves.

Shit like that.