Page 4 of 12 FirstFirst ...
2
3
4
5
6
... LastLast
  1. #61
    Bloodsail Admiral
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Industrial heart of the USSR... now torn apart
    Posts
    1,122
    Quote Originally Posted by Choda View Post
    I'm a 887 (881 equipped) mage with Cutting Edge Xavius and all "necesary" achievements (Nightbane and M+10 in time). I still get declined more often than not for 4-6 runs. DPS are a dime a dozen, it's just statistics, nothing to get riled up about.
    An honest question here, I don't apply to random groups so can't know: if the group chooses someone else and goes on, do you receive the same message as when they actually press "decline" or a different one? I mean, if they pick someone else and start the run before they even notice you, you didn't really get declined.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    It's not 2004. People have lives, jobs, families etc

  2. #62
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Verral View Post
    It's your right not to believe me but I know every classes BiS legendaries, trinkets and stat priorities.
    Checking a person's armory takes me 20 seconds tops (hint: use ArmoryQuickLink addon).
    Another 40 seconds to check wlogs.
    It gives me a MUCH better general idea of what the person is capable of than simply inviting him purely because his ilvl is higher.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You should've paid more attention reading my post. Clearly stated it was Ursoc HC.
    I'm not saying it's a huge achievement but it's pretty decent with the ilvl given.
    it does not matter what you state unless you prove it.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    do you receive the same message as when they actually press "decline"
    Yup, same message.

  4. #64
    So whenever I apply for Maw of Souls boosting groups I get declined for whatever reasons.
    I guess it might be that 880 overall ilvl (which the group leaders see when I sign up) isn't high enough to be able to do a +7 or +9 MoS.
    It's not that at all. I guess that you usually apply to groups rather than making them; if you made your own groups regularly you would see that it takes a few minutes to get a list of 30 DPS players to invite.

    Who would decline a list of 890+ mages, hunters, DH's etc to invite a ret 15-20 ilvls lower? You're not more worthy than them, so why do expect people to decline THEM instead of YOU?

    Even if you consider both players to have equal worth in the group, with 30 applications and 1-2 spots you have to decline almost all of them anyway; even the best players, classes with full gear get declined regularly.
    Last edited by Svisalith; 2016-12-03 at 01:12 PM.

  5. #65
    C'mon guys, you really need to up your "prove it then!" game.

    Someone has already linked ret logs for mythic Ursoc, all you gotta do is select heroic from the dropdown and look for Verral in rank 6 for that ilvl bracket, 200 overall.

  6. #66
    Herald of the Titans Racthoh's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    2,501
    make your own groups buddy

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    On one hand, if you two bothered to make two clicks, you could see that the OP is world #6 in his ilvl bracket. (not the greatest achievement, but he's right and you're wrong)

    On the other hand, seriously, who will check logs and armories for a random 5man? People just take what's higher quickly and gogogo.

    No I'm not. I'm calling bullshit on a pala with much higher ilvl and 2xBiS lengedary simming below him, literally not even remotely possibile.

  8. #68
    Rarely get I declined because I communicate with group leader the moment I sign up, before he even gets to see my ilvl or gets to think to decline/accept me. I say to him hello, I tell him that I've got shitton of exp in m+, link some achievements.

    What seems to work the best for me is: "Hello, I am good". This simple, really. Communication is the key.

  9. #69
    Come next patch, this is gonna be even worse, as ilvl will be the only thing that matters, no need to think about stats or anything.
    Glad I won't be playing though!

  10. #70
    Field Marshal
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Nethergarde Keep
    Posts
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by emedia View Post
    No I'm not. I'm calling bullshit on a pala with much higher ilvl and 2xBiS lengedary simming below him, literally not even remotely possibile.
    You sometimes don't get to choose your gear and lack the most valuable secondary stats, you know. That's exactly what happened in his case and it allows me to sim for far more.

    Now if you're so self-assured about that not being possible, take a look at this:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=234468278

    It's gonna give you some ideas. I honestly hope so.
    Last edited by Verral; 2016-12-03 at 01:22 PM.
    - Give the sword to Verral, he's got russian damage dealer prio.
    © Twentytwo

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by emedia View Post
    No I'm not. I'm calling bullshit on a pala with much higher ilvl and 2xBiS lengedary simming below him, literally not even remotely possibile.
    It's easily possible if the higher ilvl player is using awfully itemised gear with some classes.
    I don't know ret paladin, so can't comment on specifics there, but I know that you could do something similar on something like a fire mage or demo lock by equipping higher ilvl gear that has no crit or haste respectively.

    Rings and necks in particular show this since they've got no primaries on them.
    Last edited by klogaroth; 2016-12-03 at 01:22 PM.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Management View Post
    Come next patch, this is gonna be even worse, as ilvl will be the only thing that matters, no need to think about stats or anything.
    Glad I won't be playing though!
    It is really nothing personal, I am just curious... let me just ask... have you ever before said something like "Wow is dying"? Just pure curiosity

  13. #73
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    20,789
    Quote Originally Posted by Verral View Post
    I'd rather have a druid healer if I wanted a combat rez in my comp.
    Cleanse? I use it all the time. Mobs before Xavius in DHT, mobs in the cave in EoA, the 3d boss in NL. Pretty much everywhere. You're probably unlucky enough to not meet ret paladins who actually have Cleanse on their action bars.

    As for an AoE stun, I'd rather have a DH. And obviously a fire mage as a ranged dps. Depends on the affixes though.

    Calling BoP a minor utility skill is just plain dumb because it allows you to COMPLETELY bypass certain mechanics (spear on the first boss in EoA, Hateful Gaze on the third boss in BRH...)

    LoH is something you want to have yourself because it's too overpowered, but you'll never going to confirm it because you're too proud to do it.
    See thing is simple, you are the one too proud to realize I'm right and you are wrong. Rets indeed have VERY weak utility, you can tout the greatness of BoP, LoH and Cleanse all you want, but reality is simple, they all, for example, are inferior to having Combat Rez or even another Combat Rez and they are all inferior to something simple like AoE stun available at each pack which is a real consistent lifesaver in high M+.

    Point is, if Rets would offer actual mission-critical utility, you would have higher chance to not be declined as 880. But in reality you offer none, when one sees Ret in queue he only sees damage - you aren't going to impress anyone with your single target stun or occsional LoH/BoP you may end up failing to use when it actually could be useful, because you tunnel some bullshit mob like 90% of DDs tend to do.

    And before you tell "no way I know how to play and will be so good with LoH/BoP, you'd think it's the best thing ever!", then how am I supposed to validate that as a group leader, when I know that a majority of population in queue fails to execute their DD priority list properly let alone use their utility properly when time for that comes. Go to WCL to background check all the 10 DDs beating at the door at any moment? Don't think so.

    It's simple, you lose both objectively on ilvl and subjectively on utility compared to other 9 guys in queue with you, no reason to pick you.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2016-12-03 at 01:35 PM.

  14. #74
    See I don't think ilvl is a particularly good yardstick to use, but it's by far the easiest and most convenient one.

    Rarely do I see people proposing any actual solutions to this problem that are remotely practical for the majority of groups. Hardly anyone is going to check logs for a keystone group doing anything other than pushing for +15 in time. You're forming a dungeon group, not recruiting for a permanent raid spot.

    They also don't need to. If selecting based on ilvl didn't at least have some modicum of success then people would stop doing it. But using that as the selection method is working for people, more often than not they are meeting their goals using ilvl and maybe achievements to choose people. As long as it works the majority of the time, people will keep doing it.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by epLe View Post
    1. Melee Bloat - way too many melee specs competing for few spots.

    2. Nobody likes bubble boys.
    Seriously, Paladins has always been considered "dummy" class, even when remodeled a few times, perception is much slower to change.

    3. No Pug cares about warcraft logs, or if you do 10% more or less dmg than someone.
    Fanboying meters, logs or any numbers, is exactly the same as fanboying Item levels.
    1. Yeah, it is tiresome, to the point where i would like to have some ranged dps.

    2. Well they were also considered very strong and op. Paladins hate come usually with "they are so op, its unfair". And paladins, no matter which role they perform in Legion, are pretty amazing at it.

    3. Imagine the backlash? "Hello, we see you want to join our group for Maw of Souls +4. Can you please elaborate WHY you want to join our group specifically? What do you bring to our comp... group? Any data via warcraftlogs from the past 3 weeks of raiding would be helpfull for us to make decision".

  16. #76
    MoS is completely fucked up.
    U cant even get in a +2 if u are below 870. Why? Open a group and write key +2 to +5, 3 chesting, ilevel 850+.
    Guess what ilevel u will be able to choose from? U will have 880+ in there for sure. So why would u chose a 850 over a 880?

    All the pushing and boosting of the key is fucked up, especially MoS.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by klogaroth View Post
    Yup, same message.
    I do feel that this is part of the problem.

    When a group fills if it simply said "group has filled" it would soften things up a bit. If your timer just runs out say the "timer ran out". Right now to someone that's overly sensitive to rejection it matters. Sure to me it's no big deal but end of the day it seems like a simple change. Declined should be reserved to those people that are straight up declined. I get the feeling a lot of people in the MMO sphere are at least moderately sensitive to rejection like most people. But unlike in the RL when you usually shake it off and walk away to not cause an innocent on the internet you flip the fuck out, rage pull, post on forums, and in general do things that prove it was a good choice not to bring you in the first place.

    But still declined is a very general word that can be taken to the worst places by people willing to go there.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Verral View Post
    Hello there.
    I'm casually playing a ret pally, and by casually I mean I no longer raid mythic which I used to do.

    I haven't killed a single boss in EN mythic / ToV mythic, I only do HC raids from time to time and only do sub-10 mythic dungeons and Kara.
    Currently got 872 ilvl equipped.

    So whenever I apply for Maw of Souls boosting groups I get declined for whatever reasons.
    I guess it might be that 880 overall ilvl (which the group leaders see when I sign up) isn't high enough to be able to do a +7 or +9 MoS.
    Or it's probably rumors that ret paladins are bad in any situation, have no utility whatsoever and the group can't benefit from having a ret.

    Now what I want everyone to understand is that ilvl DOESN'T guarantee higher dps. IT. DOES. NOT.
    Even a 10 ilvl difference DOESN'T mean the character with lower ilvl is far worse in terms of damage output.
    Secondary stats, trinkets and item bonuses STILL matter A LOT.

    My simDPS is 459724. I managed to pull 514K dps on Ursoc HC last week (before I had a chance to level my artifact to 35 which is a plain 5% dmg increase).

    Now my friend who is also a ret with 7/7 EN M and 2/3 ToV M experience and 889 ilvl equipped with 2 best in slot legendaries sims for 441330 dps.

    Notice that it's a 18k difference.

    PLEASE STOP being the victims of stereotypes and learn to use something except Pawn.
    At least check warcraftlogs before mindlessly declining people who can actually shine in your group.
    it has nothing to do with your ilevel and more to do with the fact that you are A. A Ret Pally, B. A Melee, C. A Ret Pally

    Ret Pally has more of a stigma than usual this Xpack, my main is ret so i know what we can do single target, however with that said our AOE is the suck. Many groups are looking for a class that can do high AOE AND Good tank dps. With range being so little compared to normal years there is also a LOT of melee applying to groups, many group do not want to much melee.

    When i am on my mage with lower ilevel i get into groups near instantly thanks to timewarp, because i actually give something to the group as a whole unlike my ret pally.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    i mean you could link your logs and say "550k dps ret" and maybe people will invite you

    but you cant expect people to guess it, ilvl is still the most reliable way to judge someone's dps yes there are people in 885 who suck and there are people in 870 who are good, but how can you know that without ever having spent time with them?

    is the ilvl system the best way to judge player skill/expected performance? probably not, can you show us a better one?




    you really dont need to do mythic+ just to do LFR, you're not forced to do anything, the only people who are "forced" to do mythic+ are top100 raiders basically
    I'm very serious about character progression. I do my best to improve my character just like those "100 top organized raiders " you mentioned.

    Is there any reason I shouldn't ?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordfish Trombone View Post
    How powerful?
    For one, I've been very lucky so far. I have all relevant legendaries for my role. My item level could barely be any higher and my 10+ year long experience as a healer enables me to play my character its full potential.

    Very powerful

  20. #80
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Under construction
    Posts
    14,631
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    For one, I've been very lucky so far. I have all relevant legendaries for my role. My item level could barely be any higher and my 10+ year long experience as a healer enables me to play my character its full potential.

    Very powerful
    Why not just say your ilvl or link your armory so we can see how powerful? Because I doubt just about every word you said

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •