Help with Mythic Odyn Phase 3

[Valech]

Hey people,

so after we had no problems with p1 and p2, we are struggling with p3 a bit. I admit that we only had one real evening at that boss but you can never start early enough to improve. I have a few questions:

1) Is there a known distance after which moving further away from the boss has no effect regarding his Spear?
2) How exactly does the spear deal damage to others: Does it deal splash damage at the impact location or is everyone damaged who stands underneath/in its path?
3) Is there a physical component to the spears damage or is it purely nature damage?
4) Where exactly would you recommend running to? Currently we tank him towards the entry when the patches on the side are free and run towards the throne when affected by the spear. The issue is, that many tornados are put in the way.
5) how do you handle the situation, when you are branded, the other tank has the spear and you cannot reach the boss since you would walk through other branded camps?
6) Is there a strat to cheese the spear? BoP entirely negates the damage and we have access to four of those.

General advice is much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[Deleted]

Right, so my best attempt was getting hit by the spear once on Mythic (I survived it, yay), so I cannot speak with too many hard facts and observations.

Drawing on experience from the encounter on Heroic and interpreting the tooltip:

1) No hard cap should exist and there is no mention of diminishing returns. What limits you here is the free encounter area and how fast you can make the return route, since you have to taunt the boss quite quickly after getting hit by the spear.

For me, I leap and use up my 3s of speed increase, stand and take the spear and start walking back to boss. I have about 120% ms from legendary boots and I just make it in time to taunt range when co-tank gets targeted with spear. While boss turns towards me I have made up the remaining 5 yards which get me into intercept range.

2) Tooltip says "all players" so I presume the 19 remaining raid members get damaged. Never inspected this closely in logs/videos.

3) Tank gets hit with physical dmg, raid gets hit with nature. I know Neltharion's Fury doesn't quite cut it, like it did on Cenarius for example. Tried to soak a spear on HC only with NF and low IP and I died like a scrub.

Spell reflect would be useless. I plan on using an armor potion as a cooldown for one of the spears though. So that is:

1st spear - double IP + DS
2nd spear - SW
3rd spear - LS
4th spear - Armor pot + external?
5th spear? - double IP/external + DS again?


4) There is no alternative to the positioning you described. Dodge tornadoes ala Blade Lord Ta'yak (2nd boss, heart of fear, pandaria) or tell your raid to try and drop tornadoes only on one side, so you have a clear path when you hug the wall.

5) Now that is a question I have been asking myself as well...

plis halp

6) People have suggested combat ress as an actual strat... But that presumes the rest 18 players are on top of their shit and don't fuck up...

Any more insightful feedback is gladly appreciated for all us scrubs who haven't killed this yet.

[Valech]

Right, so my best attempt was getting hit by the spear once on Mythic (I survived it, yay), so I cannot speak with too many hard facts and observations.

Drawing on experience from the encounter on Heroic and interpreting the tooltip:

1) No hard cap should exist and there is no mention of diminishing returns. What limits you here is the free encounter area and how fast you can make the return route, since you have to taunt the boss quite quickly after getting hit by the spear.

For me, I leap and use up my 3s of speed increase, stand and take the spear and start walking back to boss. I have about 120% ms from legendary boots and I just make it in time to taunt range when co-tank gets targeted with spear. While boss turns towards me I have made up the remaining 5 yards which get me into intercept range.

2) Tooltip says "all players" so I presume the 19 remaining raid members get damaged. Never inspected this closely in logs/videos.

3) Tank gets hit with physical dmg, raid gets hit with nature. I know Neltharion's Fury doesn't quite cut it, like it did on Cenarius for example. Tried to soak a spear on HC only with NF and low IP and I died like a scrub.

Spell reflect would be useless. I plan on using an armor potion as a cooldown for one of the spears though. So that is:

1st spear - double IP + DS
2nd spear - SW
3rd spear - LS
4th spear - Armor pot + external?
5th spear? - double IP/external + DS again?


4) There is no alternative to the positioning you described. Dodge tornadoes ala Blade Lord Ta'yak (2nd boss, heart of fear, pandaria) or tell your raid to try and drop tornadoes only on one side, so you have a clear path when you hug the wall.

5) Now that is a question I have been asking myself as well...

plis halp

6) People have suggested combat ress as an actual strat... But that presumes the rest 18 players are on top of their shit and don't fuck up...

Any more insightful feedback is gladly appreciated for all us scrubs who haven't killed this yet.

Thank you a lot, I appreciate every bit of insight I can get. I have a few questions tho:
When mentioning Neltharion´s Fury, do you imply that the physical damage of the spear is blockable?
Are you sure, that the raiddamage is nature and the damage on the tank is purely physical?

[Chewtoy]

I was just going to post this thread, so thanks for that I'm interested to see the opinions.

Only other question I had is how many stacks from Odyn do you guys take comfortably in Phase 1 and 2. The healers were complaining I was getting too high while the bear druid just laughed at it.

[Valech]

I was just going to post this thread, so thanks for that I'm interested to see the opinions.

Only other question I had is how many stacks from Odyn do you guys take comfortably in Phase 1 and 2. The healers were complaining I was getting too high while the bear druid just laughed at it.

3-6. More if the add doesn´t reach 85% quickly enough. taunts are for free, so why stack it higher

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3-6. More if the add doesn´t reach 85% quickly enough. taunts are for free, so why stack it higher

Edit: I realized you cannot mean the Stacks on Odyn since you mentioned Phase 1. Which stacks do you mean?

[Sinew]

Utilizing every paladin in the raid's bop is a good source of spear cooldowns as well. You will take 0 damage, but the raid will still take the nature damage.

[Valech]

Utilizing every paladin in the raid's bop is a good source of spear cooldowns as well. You will take 0 damage, but the raid will still take the nature damage.

We will do exactly this tonight. got 4 bops wish me luck guys

[Chewtoy]

3-6. More if the add doesn´t reach 85% quickly enough. taunts are for free, so why stack it higher

- - - Updated - - -

Edit: I realized you cannot mean the Stacks on Odyn since you mentioned Phase 1. Which stacks do you mean?

No you're answering what I was talking about. Didn't know if he went taunt immune too easy. It's been a long week, it should be phase 2 and 3, not 1 haha.

[Valech]

No you're answering what I was talking about. Didn't know if he went taunt immune too easy. It's been a long week, it should be phase 2 and 3, not 1 haha.

He doesn´t get those stacks in p3 anymore, the only reason to taunt there is the spear. In p2 you can taunt at 3-6. That´s totally fine.


Guys! We killed Odyn tonight. Thanks for all the advice.

For all who are interested: we just assigned cooldowns and BoP for the first eight spears.

1) I took it with shieldwall and jumping away
2) Dk tank took it alone with cooldown and sac
3) I took it with bop
4) Dk took it with cooldown and sac
5) I took it with LS, jumping away and Ironbark
6) Dk took it with bop (20 sek debuff bop)
7) I took it with bop
8) Dk took it with bop (yes we had 4 paladins)

after that, we only had 2 more spears. I died at mine and was battlerezzed. Boss died shortly after.

[Deleted]

@Valech grats man. I'm happy you got the kill. We also take some paladins on the fight so I'll make sure we use up those bops.

[Deleted]

Just a quick tip, if you are having trouble getting back to Odyn in time after taking a spear you can intercept to your raid members along the way, speeding yourself up quite a bit

[Deleted]

Hey Mate, we are currently progress on this. We have only one paladin. How do you handle the spear with the tank marked? Do u stay away without splashing damage?
Have you find a good strategy for p3 marks? Something like placing flares ?
Thanks!

[Deleted]

You cannot avoid the splash damage on the spear. It's raidwide and distance has nothing to do with it.

[Deleted]

I mean splash damage from the mythic p3 mechanics, brand runes. Someone know if spell reflect could be worth for nature damage?

[Valech]

Just a quick tip, if you are having trouble getting back to Odyn in time after taking a spear you can intercept to your raid members along the way, speeding yourself up quite a bit

I believe when you are raiding mythic content, that this is a basic mechanic you have mastered long ago. But I appreciate the adivce. just be sure not to intercept into a group of wrong runebrands xD

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Hey Mate, we are currently progress on this. We have only one paladin. How do you handle the spear with the tank marked? Do u stay away without splashing damage?
Have you find a good strategy for p3 marks? Something like placing flares ?
Thanks!

The splash damage from the spear is raidwide and not affected by how far you went away or how many players stood under the spear. If you do not have a bop on you, you NEED to get as far away as possible.

We assigned 5 players to have macros, that place raidmarkers on the ground. Middle platform is like you handled runes in p1 and p2, the side platforms were precisely assigned. you can place raidmarks even when dead. It´s a matter of 2 clicks. Also, after you have seen Phase 3 a few times, you already learned where which camp is. Make sure your raid knows, that, if you cannot make it in time into your camp, it is only necessairy to stand AWAY from other groups. You don´t have to stand with your people, just don´t stand with the wrong people.

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I mean splash damage from the mythic p3 mechanics, brand runes. Someone know if spell reflect could be worth for nature damage?

As a tank, the splash damage you receive by the other tank´s spear is trivial. The damage of the runebrands is even more trivial - if you stand correctly. But sure, definitly go ahead and pull a spellreflect - can´t hurt to help the healers a bit.

[Chewtoy]

So, I'm confused for phase 3 when the tank gets a brand and spear at same time.

Are you saying it's ok to run it out as long as you get 15 yards away from any conflicting marks? Or do you just stand in your marked group and take it with an extra external or something for that spear. Do all even spears line up with brand?

[Valech]

So, I'm confused for phase 3 when the tank gets a brand and spear at same time.

Are you saying it's ok to run it out as long as you get 15 yards away from any conflicting marks? Or do you just stand in your marked group and take it with an extra external or something for that spear. Do all even spears line up with brand?

If I recall correctly from yesterday, it was every third spear that conflicted with brands ( so the last one before you had to switch platforms). The brands itself only deal damage when the debuff expires - so running/jumping through people with diffrent marks is not an issue. Make sure to either stand away entirely from people with diffrent marks or be able to make it back in time to stand in your camp at the very moment the debuff expires. For tanks, this leads to a conflict of interest: You jump/run away to lower the spear´s damage on yourself but you need to return early enough to be able to taunt for the other tank´s spear. This is problematic, when you would have to cross the path with diffrently branded people. That is why we BoPed every third spear. In realtime this would look as the following:

- Phase 3 starts - you should have positioned Odyn at the mark pointing towards the entry, since that is the shortest distance to all three platforms.
- Drag Odyn to his tank position.
- Tank A receives first spear debuff
- Tank B taunts
- Tank A runs away, pops cooldowns and/or calls for appropriate externals (If the personal cooldown was strong (Shieldwall), call for something small like ironbark, if the personal cooldown was weak, call for something like a Monkbubble/sacrefice)
- Tank A returns. Meanwhile Tank B reiceives second spear debuff.
- Tank A taunts.
- Tank B runs away, pops cooldowns and/or calls for appropriate externals as descirbed above
- Tank B returns. Meanwhile Tank A receives third spear debuff.
- Tank B taunts.
- Tank A STAYS at position and gets BoP. Meanwhile the whole raid gets branded.
- Everyone, including both tanks, move to their assigned positions.
- Tank A obviously doesn´t have to run back, since he didn´t run away in the first place
- Diffrent platform gets active.
- Odyn gets dragged to the tankposition of that platform.

From there on it´s rinse and repeat.

Some other pointers:
- If handled correctly, the runebrand damage is laughably low. If handled incorrectly, it kills people.
- The spear´s nature damage on the whole raid is not affected by the distance the tank ran away. Nontheless, the spear´s damage is hugh and raidcooldowns like tranquility should be used for those.
- All cooldowns need to be precisely assigned. A single instance of two healers accidently applying both of their single target cooldowns will lead to a lack of cooldowns for later spears.
- expect 8-10 spears depending on your raid damage.
- It is never wise to run into the sacred flames of the inactive platforms. Damage is ridiculous high.
- Doding the tornadoes as a tank is a bitch. They move!

[Chewtoy]

We don't have any paladins Yeah, I know.

I'll have to see if it was 2nd or third spear, or which it is through out the fight so we can plan for each one. I thought when we got there last night it was the 2nd as I have the odds and it was on our bear tank. Thanks!

[Sinew]

He doesn´t get those stacks in p3 anymore, the only reason to taunt there is the spear. In p2 you can taunt at 3-6. That´s totally fine.


Guys! We killed Odyn tonight. Thanks for all the advice.

For all who are interested: we just assigned cooldowns and BoP for the first eight spears.

1) I took it with shieldwall and jumping away
2) Dk tank took it alone with cooldown and sac
3) I took it with bop
4) Dk took it with cooldown and sac
5) I took it with LS, jumping away and Ironbark
6) Dk took it with bop (20 sek debuff bop)
7) I took it with bop
8) Dk took it with bop (yes we had 4 paladins)

after that, we only had 2 more spears. I died at mine and was battlerezzed. Boss died shortly after.

Looks like you killed it the same night as my guild :O

[Chewtoy]

So....if we don't have a paladin, how would we handle the spears with brand? Can you just get 15 yards from everyone and be ok, or do you still need to stack on brand group and then bigger cd's?

I think the brand lines up with the spear every 2nd in a ground phase right?

Floor lights up
Spear 1 - normal
Spear 2 - lines up with Brand
Spear 3 - comes and then you move to next ground area

Or does the spear/brand line up differently?