Trump just pissed off Beijing in a major way

[IsaacHawke]

It seems few people here knows the current situation. It doesn't matter. Just knowing a fact, even Obama who pushed Asia-Pacific Rebalance policy so hard won't even think about doing anything like this.

Because Beijing has been waiting this for so many years.

As you could see, Trump's team deleted related news on their website soon after it was published and the president-elect himself showed regret with his second twitter post. Trump is a genius businessman but knows few about international politics and military. That's why he needs so many generals as advisers.
Let's just hope he wouldn't do anything like this in future before talking with his adviser team.

[Spectral]

China is costing us millions of dollars through their clever manipulation of currency. I think it's about time that someone stood up to them.

Literally millions? Watch out now!

[Gurluas]

Fuck China, Taiwan is worth being friends with and supporting.
What China is doing to them is evil and inhumane.

[Deleted]

Unless he behaves the same way again, no perma harm done, I hope he explains to China he ain't doing anything but economic ties to Taiwan.

[Vyxn]

Because one is a trade deal the other is a political signal of taiwan becoming recognized in a geographical area where china does not want to lose land, reason why political leaders also don't speak of an independent tibet.

The issued an official statement about it. So they are far from happy about it. Regardless of who called first Trump should have been informed about this, so this reflects poorly on him not being aware of it what means he wasn't informed and didn't think anything of it himself what is dumb, or he ignored the advice about it from his staff and those prepping him what is even worse.

Not surprised that people are still in the honeymoon period and don't fault him for anything, we seen this before with bush so not surprising in the slightest.

Also good you bring that twitter thing up, he played it down first and later there was an official statement from China about it. Do have to read all news about it in chronological order preferably

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Who called who first is not really the matter here. I explained this already so won't repeat that. The international press is reporting on it so either you have your tinfoil hat on and believe that they are all out to get Trump, a paranoia and anger he's succesfully building up against the press, what is another great trait as president being opposed to free speech, or China is far from happy about this and this will have consequences somewhere down the line, hence the official complaint from China urging the US to fall in line with the decades long plan of supporting an united china and not what they see legitimizing separatist states.

Anyway this wasn't the first phone call that raised eye brows, this will far from be the last.

do you know how stupid that actually sounds if you took the time to think about what the hell you just wrote
you are saying China should be more mad about a phone call then Taiwan being allowed to purchase billions of dollars of US provided military equipment
just stop and think about that for a few seconds will yah

[Bullettime]

do you know how stupid that actually sounds if you took the time to think about what the hell you just wrote
you are saying China should be more mad about a phone call then Taiwan being allowed to purchase billions of dollars of US provided military equipment
just stop and think about that for a few seconds will yah

Except that's the political climate. We've given Taiwan just enough in terms of military equipment to slow down an invasion and China and the US have come to the agreement that it will happen, will be tolerated as long as it doesn't push even more forward, and business is business.

China is extremely nationalistic and the current party's major claim of success was that it finally, after centuries, united China under one banner. Recognizing players like Taiwan as independent of the whole is basically spitting in their face. That's why it's been handled with kid gloves for decades. It's the ultimate insult to their government.

As usual, you're putting personal opinions above facts.

[Vyxn]

Aah, I just love these Trump supporters.
Not sure what is worse: Trump making this call or you people not understanding why it's so bad.

Nearly the entire world doesn't acknowledge Taiwan, that doesn't mean they cannot trade with people there.
But Trump congratulated their president with his win.

what do you think is more of a problem for China? a phone call or Taiwan being allowed to purchase billions of dollars of US military equipment

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Except that's the political climate. We've given Taiwan just enough in terms of military equipment to slow down an invasion and China and the US have come to the agreement that it will happen, will be tolerated as long as it doesn't push even more forward, and business is business.

China is extremely nationalistic and the current party's major claim of success was that it finally, after centuries, united China under one banner. Recognizing players like Taiwan as independent of the whole is basically spitting in their face. That's why it's been handled with kid gloves for decades. It's the ultimate insult to their government.

As usual, you're putting personal opinions above facts.

OK lets compare the responses from China over the arms sale and Trump receiving the phone call

here is china's response to the arms sale

China summoned the U.S. charge d'affaires in Beijing, Kaye Lee, to protest and said it would impose sanctions on the companies involved, China's state news agency Xinhua reported.
"Taiwan is an inalienable part of China's territory. China strongly opposes the U.S. arms sale to Taiwan," Xinhua quoted Vice Foreign Minister Zheng Zeguang, who summoned Lee, as saying.
Zheng said the sales went against international law and basic norms of international relations and "severely" harmed China's sovereignty and security.
"To safeguard our national interests, China has decided to take necessary measures, including imposing sanctions against the companies involved in the arms sale," Zheng said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...0TZ2C520151216

here is Chinas response to Trump receiving that phone call

Sui-Lee Wee 黄瑞黎
Verified account
‏@suilee
Sui-Lee Wee 黄瑞黎 Retweeted Sui-Lee Wee 黄瑞黎
More importantly, Wang Yi says it's a "small action" from Taiwan. Doesn't call Trump out


Sui-Lee Wee 黄瑞黎
Verified account
‏@suilee
Sui-Lee Wee 黄瑞黎 Retweeted Chris Buckley 储百亮
Wang Yi plays down the Trump-Tsai call as a "small action", will not change bedrock of the "One China" policy governing Sino-U.S. relations.
https://twitter.com/suilee/status/80...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

so you tell me what and who China was pissed about the arms sale or the phone call?

and who was putting opinion over facts? looks like to me I'm the only one proving what I claimed with facts and you are the one with a baseless opinion

[alexw]

what do you think is more of a problem for China? a phone call or Taiwan being allowed to purchase billions of dollars of US military equipment

The phone call obviously. But then you have no clue on this issue do you? Let me re-post what I said earlier -

There has for decades been an informal agreement between the U.S. and China on the issue of Taiwan. That China and Taiwan are one country and that they should have only one government. Its a pretense of course but it allows America to get what it wants while allowing China to save face among its people. So the U.S. doesn't formally recognize it as a sovereign country or act in a way that gives that impression, while quietly maintaining backdoor diplomatic channels and selling it bucket loads of arms to defend itself. That's the status quo. China's leadership doesn't have to go to war, and the nationalistic elements within its government and people don't have a casus belli for forcing a war. Note that the Chinese people are extremely nationalistic on the issue of Taiwan.

China's leadership itself would like Taiwan back but this pretense keeps it from the threshold of having to make the choice between recognizing it as a foreign country over which it has no territorial claims, or going to war and taking it by force. A war which it would undoubtedly win but which would be painfully costly due to all the weapons we've sold them.

Now Trump comes along like a bull in a China shop and threatens to smash that fragile peace. If push comes to shove be in doubt that its almost certainly going to be war between China and Taiwan, and forcing China into a corner on the Taiwan issue is a stupendously good way to bring that about.

That's why selling weapons isn't an issue while this phone call is.

[TrumpIsPresident]

Quick somebody write one sentence explaining to me why I should care.

[ezgeze]

You mean the country that......

blatantly steals our patented technology, copies it and passes it of as their own?
manipulated their currency to gain an edge over their foreign competitors?
stealing+invading others territory though illegal island creation in the oceans?
a communist state who supports North Korea?
threatens us with violence when they don't get their way?

THAT COUNTRY?
When was the last time we demanded that china NOT talk to N. Korea's leader? Hell, we press for them to communicate with them all the time. Communication is a good thing, the fact that Jimmy Carter started this thing alone should be enough evidence this was a stupid idea in the first place. We can sell billions of dollars of Military equipment to Taiwan and that's ok apparently but cant communicate officially with their leader? RIIIGHT.

So Communist China is butthurt that it didn't totally kill all the non-communist during their civil war because they escaped their regime and settled on the island of Taiwan. Now, after how many years of success and peace on that island, mainland China has to "save face" because they didn't kill enough back in the day and wipe out all of the people who didn't want to live under an oppressive communist state? Yeah, fuck that.

[Vyxn]

The phone call obviously. But then you have no clue on this issue do you? Let me re-post what I said earlier -

OK lets compare the responses from China over the arms sale and Trump receiving the phone call

here is china's response to the arms sale

China summoned the U.S. charge d'affaires in Beijing, Kaye Lee, to protest and said it would impose sanctions on the companies involved, China's state news agency Xinhua reported.
"Taiwan is an inalienable part of China's territory. China strongly opposes the U.S. arms sale to Taiwan," Xinhua quoted Vice Foreign Minister Zheng Zeguang, who summoned Lee, as saying.
Zheng said the sales went against international law and basic norms of international relations and "severely" harmed China's sovereignty and security.
"To safeguard our national interests, China has decided to take necessary measures, including imposing sanctions against the companies involved in the arms sale," Zheng said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...0TZ2C520151216

here is Chinas response to Trump receiving that phone call

Sui-Lee Wee 黄瑞黎
Verified account
‏@suilee
Sui-Lee Wee 黄瑞黎 Retweeted Sui-Lee Wee 黄瑞黎
More importantly, Wang Yi says it's a "small action" from Taiwan. Doesn't call Trump out


Sui-Lee Wee 黄瑞黎
Verified account
‏@suilee
Sui-Lee Wee 黄瑞黎 Retweeted Chris Buckley 储百亮
Wang Yi plays down the Trump-Tsai call as a "small action", will not change bedrock of the "One China" policy governing Sino-U.S. relations.
https://twitter.com/suilee/status/80...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

so you tell me what and who China was pissed about the arms sale or the phone call?

[Bullettime]

Quick somebody write one sentence explaining to me why I should care.

Unnecessarily and recklessly escalating tensions between the US, Taiwan, and China by breaking decades old diplomatic policy by recognizing Taiwan's government and as an independent.

[Vyxn]

Unnecessarily and recklessly escalating tensions between the US, Taiwan, and China by breaking decades old diplomatic policy by recognizing Taiwan's government and as an independent.

And the Obama arms sale approval wasn't ?

OK lets compare the responses from China over the arms sale and Trump receiving the phone call

here is china's response to the arms sale

China summoned the U.S. charge d'affaires in Beijing, Kaye Lee, to protest and said it would impose sanctions on the companies involved, China's state news agency Xinhua reported.
"Taiwan is an inalienable part of China's territory. China strongly opposes the U.S. arms sale to Taiwan," Xinhua quoted Vice Foreign Minister Zheng Zeguang, who summoned Lee, as saying.
Zheng said the sales went against international law and basic norms of international relations and "severely" harmed China's sovereignty and security.
"To safeguard our national interests, China has decided to take necessary measures, including imposing sanctions against the companies involved in the arms sale," Zheng said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...0TZ2C520151216

here is Chinas response to Trump receiving that phone call

Sui-Lee Wee 黄瑞黎
Verified account
‏@suilee
Sui-Lee Wee 黄瑞黎 Retweeted Sui-Lee Wee 黄瑞黎
More importantly, Wang Yi says it's a "small action" from Taiwan. Doesn't call Trump out


Sui-Lee Wee 黄瑞黎
Verified account
‏@suilee
Sui-Lee Wee 黄瑞黎 Retweeted Chris Buckley 储百亮
Wang Yi plays down the Trump-Tsai call as a "small action", will not change bedrock of the "One China" policy governing Sino-U.S. relations.
https://twitter.com/suilee/status/80...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

so you tell me what and who China was pissed about the arms sale or the phone call?

[Wells]

Literally millions? Watch out now!

Our Treasury's sofa cushion fund is running dangerously low.

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Anyway, the cavalier approach to confrontation being pushing in this thread is ridiculous.

[alexw]

OK lets compare the responses from China over the arms sale and Trump receiving the phone call

here is china's response to the arms sale



here is Chinas response to Trump receiving that phone call







so you tell me what and who China was pissed about the arms sale or the phone call?

That's a different question to the one you asked -

what do you think is more of a problem for China? a phone call or Taiwan being allowed to purchase billions of dollars of US military equipment

Which pisses off China more is unknowable by either me or you. Some statement by an official is meaningless in that regard. If they want to down play the issue they will, that says nothing about their internal thoughts and feelings.

As for which is the actual greater problem, which was your original question, then again its obviously the phone call for all the reasons I've stated. Something which you've in no way shape or form tried to refute. Indeed the way in which they've downplayed Trump's call plays directly into how much of a greater a problem it is. They do NOT want to open the can of worms that is the possibility of Taiwan independence. They can scream and shout about weapons sales and look tough to their people because that doesn't have the potential to lead to war as talk of Taiwanese independence does.

Think of it in American terms. In the run up to the civil war which would have hastened the start of that war. Europe selling arms to southern states, or Europe recognizing the southern states as independent territories?

[usiris]

OK lets compare the responses from China over the arms sale and Trump receiving the phone call

here is china's response to the arms sale



here is Chinas response to Trump receiving that phone call


so you tell me what and who China was pissed about the arms sale or the phone call?

Everything you've said is 100% emotional with no basis in reality. Its been explained multiple times and you are bordering on trolling at this point.

China had a much more substantial response than a few tweets. So unless you're going to come back with actual facts, shut the fuck up.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/02/politi...-trump-taiwan/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...l-complaint-us
http://www.newser.com/story/234920/c...iwan-call.html

[alexw]

Our Treasury's sofa cushion fund is running dangerously low.

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Anyway, the cavalier approach to confrontation being pushing in this thread is ridiculous.

That's what happens when you give the know-nothings political power. They act like a bull in a china shop and smash everything to bits in their ignorance.

Then they beat their chests in pride at what they've done being ignorant of the damage they've done.

[Orlong]

Source: http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/02/donal...iwan-call.html

So yeah Trump just managed to piss on 40 years of US policy, piss off Beijing, and it was probably on accident....

Everyone praised Obama when he did the same thing with Cuba and Iran, but I guess its only good when the left tries to restore relations

[Deleted]

Given the choice between the US and China virtually every country is choosing China-that's where the power is going to lie in the future and to a large extent already. Trump needs to be more careful.

[Vyxn]

Everything you've said is 100% emotional with no basis in reality. Its been explained multiple times and you are bordering on trolling at this point.

China had a much more substantial response than a few tweets. So unless you're going to come back with actual facts, shut the fuck up.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/02/politi...-trump-taiwan/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...l-complaint-us
http://www.newser.com/story/234920/c...iwan-call.html

Trolling I'm giving Chinas response to both the arms sale and the phone call and you can plainly see China was very pissed about the arms sale and blew off the phone call as quote "small action" it is you that is boarder line trolling for your refusal to recognize that


and I provided tweets because what you provided was more opinion from obvious bias sources then facts