Recounters denied access to actual ballots - so what is there to hide?

[KrazyK923]

Question. Why only the states Trump won if this is about getting the discrepancies of the entire election and not flipping lost states?

Looks just as suspicious as avoiding handing over ballots.

...because those are the ones she filed recounts in?

Trump or his campaign is free to do that if they want.

I don't know why people keep bringing this up. Jill Stein obviously isn't a neutral player in this, and, as somebody said, if miraculously somehow the election was flipped she'd be regarded as a hero. There's no heroism for her for doing it in states where Trump barely lost.

But someone else can try to do recounts in those states. Its not like they can't do it. So I donno why people keep bringing this up as if they can't.

[Bullettime]

Im not go ahead and do it she still cant win. She has to win all three states and PA is impossible to recount with accuracy because the voting machines they use in that state have no paper trail.

It's still Stein's right and the states need to cooperate to ensure fairness and to get it over with as fast as possible. The goal isn't to flip the election anyways, even two of the states are possibly flippable if the recounters were given access to all the ballots like they're supposed to have. The goal is more to show or prove any possible tampering.

There's no way this flips but Wisconsin is sure as fuck acting shady about the whole thing.

[KrazyK923]

Plot twist: Recount is being denied because it shows voter fraud in favor of clinton

It should be exposed regardless of who ends up winning said vote.

[Nathreim]

It's still Stein's right and the states need to cooperate to ensure fairness and to get it over with as fast as possible. The goal isn't to flip the election anyways, even two of the states are possibly flippable if the recounters were given access to all the ballots like they're supposed to have. The goal is more to show or prove any possible tampering.

There's no way this flips but Wisconsin is sure as fuck acting shady about the whole thing.

It would be funny if in the end it was tampering that helped Clinton and thats why they are trying to hide it.

[Stacyrect]

Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania all had wonky goings with exit poll data and wins on razor thin margins. If there WAS tampering in the election at all, in any state, it would have been there.

Wisconsin has just acting shady about the whole thing from day 1 which is fueling the fire even more.

The video posted was actually really good.

Exit poll data is always skewed. If their was voter fraud, I find it very hard to believe that the fraud would have been in Trumps favor in Wisconsin. However, plenty of people out there like me who will say they 3rd party when they voted republican. I personally dislike republican and democratic parties and would rather see a 3rd party win than either political party

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It should be exposed regardless of who ends up winning said vote.

I agree

/10car

[Dextroden]

Stein has her hands full trying to get a recount in ONE state let alone 50, iirc she had to drop Pennsylvania. In my opinion, recounts should be automatic and federally funded in general elections where the winner won the vote by 1% or less in a particular state.

There should certainly be no wringing of hands and angry words over people exercising their legal right to a recount. Wisconsin is looking shady as fuck right now, and there's literally no reason for them to be looking/acting this way.

Please believe I actually want this to happen, despite how silly the backdrop has made this appear. And the people roadblocking instead of letting people throw money to do what they want. I fully expect everyone to be unhappy with the results, however.

Plus, I'm sure any efforts to get a recount against any Democrat victor in the future will be given the same finger wagging. I will be doing it, too, while letting them do it. I just want January to come so everyone is forced to finally sink or swim on accepting this.

[Celista]

And she should accept it. She said accept it and Obama said deal with it when he won. The party all about accept the outcome needs to put up or just continue being the exact same kind of babies that didn't accept Obama won.

Obama won the general election and the electoral college, though. The conspiracy theories that claimed Obama was an illegitimate president because he was secretly born in Africa made those individuals perpetuating that theory sound like racist nutjobs and that isn't really comparable to what happened with this election, if there if there really is evidence of vote tampering.

A couple things...

1. Democrats never should have gone down the "there is no vote tampering" rabbithole when anyone with a working brain should have known that voting can be tampered with.
2. When did politics in the US become so centered around my team vs. your team? This election, some conservatives seem positively gleeful that their candidate won, like Clinton and Trump were competing sports teams. Some liberals seem positively hateful towards conservatives for voting for Trump.

I very clearly don't like Trump but this is our country, we all have to live here (assuming you're an American if you're reading this) and we should start acting like it.

In regards to the recount, that means respecting each others' legal rights and not denying people those rights because they subscribe to a political ideology that you don't agree with.

[Dextroden]

...because those are the ones she filed recounts in?

Trump or his campaign is free to do that if they want.

I don't know why people keep bringing this up. Jill Stein obviously isn't a neutral player in this, and, as somebody said, if miraculously somehow the election was flipped she'd be regarded as a hero. There's no heroism for her for doing it in states where Trump barely lost.

But someone else can try to do recounts in those states. Its not like they can't do it. So I donno why people keep bringing this up as if they can't.

I'm just curious if I'm supposed to view this as a general scan of the political machine or a flaccid attempt to flip states that might reveal accidentally reveal things people are being unnecessarily sketchy about.

[Celista]

Plus, I'm sure any efforts to get a recount against any Democrat victor in the future will be given the same finger wagging. I will be doing it, too, while letting them do it. I just want January to come so everyone is forced to finally sink or swim on accepting this.

I wish people took a more egalitarian stance on things in this country. It's obnoxious that I have to explain my position on the electoral college system (an opinion I've had for years, literally since high school) and defend myself from people who think I'm a sore loser. I didn't even vote for Hillary, I just don't like the winner-take-all electoral college system since it discourages voter participation if you vote red in a primarily blue state or vice versa.

Slightly off-topic rant but ties into my earlier post somewhat on hyper partisan politics and its influence on democratic processes.

[Scottyjscizzle]

Likely nothing, but I don't see why they won't just fucking cooperate so we can get this shit show over with. Let them see the votes, provide an actual explanation for the tamper locks being broken, count the damn votes, and let's all move on.

While I doubt anything malicious happened (at least endorsed by either candidate) everytime trump or other Republicans start pushing back like they have been with this makes them look like they are hiding shit. They are like those people on cops who keep trying to move their pocket away from the cop while say nah man ain't nothing there I swear!

[KrazyK923]

I'm just curious if I'm supposed to view this as a general scan of the political machine or a flaccid attempt to flip states that might reveal accidentally reveal things people are being unnecessarily sketchy about.

Feel free to try and get recounts in the states Clinton barely won, then.

Nothing is stopping you.

If you're wondering why Trump's campaign isn't...it should be obvious.

[bmjclark]

Question. Why only the states Trump won if this is about getting the discrepancies of the entire election and not flipping lost states?

Looks just as suspicious as avoiding handing over ballots.

Because no one wants to hand over $2million+ just to get a recount in a state that won't change anything. If this recount changes something (it wont) then surely trump supporters can raise money like stein has to recount other states. If it wasn't so ridiculously hard to get a recount recounting other states wouldn't be such an issue.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

The odds of these recounts actually changing the results of the election are miniscule. But, if there was an error and/or tampering involved...that's important to know moving forward.

[Dextroden]

I wish people took a more egalitarian stance on things in this country. It's obnoxious that I have to explain my position on the electoral college system (an opinion I've had for years, literally since high school) and defend myself from people who think I'm a sore loser. I didn't even vote for Hillary, I just don't like the winner-take-all electoral college system since it discourages voter participation if you vote red in a primarily blue state or vice versa.

Slightly off-topic rant but ties into my earlier post somewhat on hyper partisan politics and its influence on democratic processes.

If we're going to sling mud and not like people or presidents, we should do it in every direction and be honest about it. Instead of saying "Love conquers hate", and then mutter something about uneducated people in flyover states or rednecks in the deep south.

Seriously. Whatever side loses Florida gets super pissed with us. Every. Damn. Time.

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Feel free to try and get recounts in the states Clinton barely won, then.

Nothing is stopping you.

If you're wondering why Trump's campaign isn't...it should be obvious.

He's super cheap and thinks he won?

[KrazyK923]

He's super cheap and thinks he won?

So if you got it, why are you so seemingly confused about why other states aren't doing recounts?

I've seen you say this in other posts before, and since you seem to understand the reason why Trump's campaign isn't doing recounts, I don't know what your point is. To just be a contrarian? To try and change the subject?

Anyhow, the entire point is off-topic. Feel free to make another topic if you want to know why a thing isn't happening that's obvious to everybody else, apparently including yourself.

[cubby]

There should never be a problem with someone requesting a recount. The problem occurs when it's denied.

[Coeryn]

Denying Jill Stein's right to request a recount is stupid, no matter if she does it for Clinton or not. Either it proves Trump won, and that's it, or it proves voter fraud, which will be one of the biggest events of the decade. There's really no defending not doing it. This is not even worthy of a discussion. Everyone in favor of Democracy, either be that Republican or Democrat, should be on the recount train: BECAUSE Jill Stein is executing her DEMOCRATIC RIGHT to request a fucking recount.

Good jolly and God people are so...antagonistic towards each other. Fuuuck

[Sargerasraider]

Stein has her hands full trying to get a recount in ONE state let alone 50, iirc she had to drop Pennsylvania. In my opinion, recounts should be automatic and federally funded in general elections where the winner won the vote by 1% or less in a particular state.

There should certainly be no wringing of hands and angry words over people exercising their legal right to a recount. Wisconsin is looking shady as fuck right now, and there's literally no reason for them to be looking/acting this way.

The largest ever change in final tally by a recount is ~1200 votes in Florida in the 2000 presidential election. The implication that we should recount every election within 1% would be enormously expensive with almost zero chance of changing outcome.

If people want to pay for a recount, that's fine. It should be handled in whatever way has been legally established to conduct these. All I see ongoing in Wisconsin right now is people who desperately want to see a conspiracy where none exists.

[cubby]

The largest ever change in final tally by a recount is ~1200 votes in Florida in the 2000 presidential election. The implication that we should recount every election within 1% would be enormously expensive with almost zero chance of changing outcome.

If people want to pay for a recount, that's fine. It should be handled in whatever way has been legally established to conduct these. All I see ongoing in Wisconsin right now is people who desperately want to see a conspiracy where none exists.

You have to admit that being denied access to the ballots is at least a little odd.

[Coeryn]

You have to admit that being denied access to the ballots is at least a little odd.

I've been wondering, are they actually allowed to deny access, or?