7.1.5: Fire completely wrecked

[Deleted]

Fire isn't a top spec. It hasn't been at any time this entire expansion. That's the point.

thats not entirely true, fire was prolly the 2nd best caster dps in the game after spriest at launch but due to nerfs and overall poor scaling and other classes getting big buffs, they significantly dropped to middle of the pack which would be fine if it wasnt for the fact that fire gets outdps'd by a significant amount by almost all melee which imo are almost all overtuned and most ranged now.

[Choloz]

We cannot "moderate" people expressing their opinion on Mages being strong or OP, as much as we cannot moderate guys complaining that the sky is falling based upon changes that are nowhere near final.

However, i believe that "Reply With Quote" can be used willingly, thus making it your choice to answer or quote the forementioned kinds of posts. If you know what i mean.

and this is exactly why mmo has become more of a cesspool of **** posting and less of a community. if you truly believe that you can simple "ignore" **** posting, then this place will always cater to mindless banter. it's a really, really sad day when a moderator comes in and says that nothing can be done about some of the crap that people post.

thats not entirely true, fire was prolly the 2nd best caster dps in the game after spriest at launch but due to nerfs and overall poor scaling and other classes getting big buffs, they significantly dropped to middle of the pack which would be fine if it wasnt for the fact that fire gets outdps'd by a significant amount by almost all melee which imo are almost all overtuned and most ranged now.

at launch? the first few weeks of an expansion mean what? we're still in the same tier. fire mages were on top for maybe a few weeks, and a lot of that had to do with bracers. we got nerfed once, and the week of the nerf we were middle of the pack on every fight that didn't have tons of meaningless cleave. and every other caster class except shadow priests were seriously undertuned, that's not our fault. the fact that we were competitive compared to other melee didn't make us OP, it means the other casters were garbage.

he's correct, we were never OP. we were never breaking fights or blowing other classes out of the water. yes, at the start of an xpac a crit based class will have large delta's that can skew the tails of a distribution, but that evens out -very- quickly once more crit is obtained and other classes scale into their spec.

this is the point competitive mages are making here. there are a lot of uneducated players who jump to conclusions or refuse to critically think about a situation, and now there are people out there, like myself, who have invested 35 levels into an artifact, literally hundreds of hours, and itemized for an entire tier around fire. we have no idea what to expect for nighthold when we -need- to be prepared in order to stay competitive. then, we come here to talk about it, and someone tells us to "stfu" because we deserve it. then, to kick it all off, we have mods posting in the same topic telling us to ignore it. it's actually hilarious.

but, i understand how frustrating it is for some people to get outdps'd in a mythic+. (this sentence was sarcasm)

[Deleted]

thats not entirely true, fire was prolly the 2nd best caster dps in the game after spriest at launch but due to nerfs and overall poor scaling and other classes getting big buffs, they significantly dropped to middle of the pack which would be fine if it wasnt for the fact that fire gets outdps'd by a significant amount by almost all melee which imo are almost all overtuned and most ranged now.

Im agree with you. During september and mid-October mage was so versatile cause low itlvl of players (850+-) and 0 nerfs on live.
The prob is scalling so bad + nerfs.

[Difuid]

When you are near the bottom of the pack already, tell them to get a nerf is trolling.

When you are one of the top 3 spec (since tier 1), it is OK for you to take a nerf.

Are you still watching parses from the first weeks of raiding?
Back to the shaman forums with you, I wish your class gets the same treatment from the devs and the community as the mage class does.

[Deleted]

Mage was one of the top dps specs at the start because we were able to stack high amounts of crit with relatively low ilvl items. Heck, I still have an 850 neck and ring on my mage, because they have a ridiculous amount of crit. Poor scaling with other stats made it so that other classes surpassed us by a very large margin once they started getting gear.

Blizzard, with their typical, short-term tunnle vision didn't fix the issue, they nerfed crit reliant spells rather than decreasaing our dependency on crit and increasing the viability of other stats. The results are obviously visibile; we reached a plateau at about 60% crit and while other classes' output grew exponentially, ours pretty much stagnates - even with extreme ilvl jumps.

[Deleted]

This is the post for make question about 7.1.5 , just use this for show what mage comunity think of last blizzard nerf and ask the reason of this and listen 7 december what they answer
http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17614465196

[Orrin]

This is the post for make question about 7.1.5 , just use this for show what mage comunity think of last blizzard nerf and ask the reason of this and listen 7 december what they answer
http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17614465196

Usually questions answered in those Q&As are most generic ones. Also devs rarely respond to pleas for buffs. And it's not like we might ask for something we don't know about regarding Fire, all we have to do is wait and see how numbers tuning will pan out.

I think what might have more chance to get asked are questions aobut Frost and Arcane because both were out of spotlight and Arcane is changed with Quickening removal

[Deleted]

Mate just ask

[Grym]

Are you still watching parses from the first weeks of raiding?
Back to the shaman forums with you, I wish your class gets the same treatment from the devs and the community as the mage class does.

Elemental Shaman been like that since Wrath, so I am already getting those treatments for years.

- - - Updated - - -

and this is exactly why mmo has become more of a cesspool of **** posting and less of a community. if you truly believe that you can simple "ignore" **** posting, then this place will always cater to mindless banter. it's a really, really sad day when a moderator comes in and says that nothing can be done about some of the crap that people post.

But you can look at Elitist Jerk forum, where they take things to the other extreme, with many rules and such and mods are not afraid to use the ban hammer, while it is popular to some posters, it is not so popular to others.

[Icku]

Are you still watching parses from the first weeks of raiding?
Back to the shaman forums with you, I wish your class gets the same treatment from the devs and the community as the mage class does.

Everybody would like being blizzard's only child. It's like everyone knows Blizzard loves mages but not mages xD

Infracted.

[Lobstarrr]

Everybody would like being blizzard's only child. It's like everyone knows Blizzard loves mages but not mages xD

DAE ghostcrawler played mage LUL!

Fuck off with this moronic shit. Seems people don't even care what happens to their own class as long as mages get nerfs.

Blizzard loves us? I can feel that love by losing 12% crit, who knows how much burst and how it looks now at least 100k single target. Man do i feel loved.

[deadman1]

We cannot "moderate" people expressing their opinion on Mages being strong or OP, as much as we cannot moderate guys complaining that the sky is falling based upon changes that are nowhere near final.

However, i believe that "Reply With Quote" can be used willingly, thus making it your choice to answer or quote the forementioned kinds of posts. If you know what i mean.

It's trolling/flaming at worst, spam at best. How does a ele sham have a good opinion of fire mages? They are clearly just regurgitating memes and baseless rhetoric. Ignoring the logs and such is silly.

[Deleted]

It's trolling/flaming at worst, spam at best. How does a ele sham have a good opinion of fire mages? They are clearly just regurgitating memes and baseless rhetoric. Ignoring the logs and such is silly.

Which is why you report and ignore them. Just like I did with Icku.

[gallamann]

Then what you should be QQing about is the Artifact Weap system itself, not the class.

If you think having to now level up your Arcane or Frost weaps is bad, then you should come be me for a day. I main a Monk that literally tanks heals and DPSes in raids and I have to spend points on all 3 specs. I have chosen to play a gimped 3 specs rather than focus on just one and I'm fine with it. I wish the system was more alt friendly but this is what we have.

Shit players spend their time crying about it, good players find ways to adapt and overcome.

Did you even read the first paragraph? Probably not because you wanted to get your jabs in on myself and the mage community.

Personally do not care what issues you have with monk and you will not find me over on the Monk forum insulting you.

Have played in top 100 world guilds... have zero desire to play that much anymore. That I choose to pursue a much more sedate pace in no way is a reflection of skill. Your problem is thinking time played is actually skillful.

[D3athsting]

Just tried fire ptr, have to admit that 200ms ping don't help but yes i do 210k on dummy (875ish ilvl), fire is pretty much dead as shit

[Xuvial]

Just tried fire ptr, have to admit that 200ms ping don't help but yes i do 210k on dummy (875ish ilvl), fire is pretty much dead as shit

Is it the crit reduction that has caused most of that ridiculous drop?

Blizzard were supposed to compensate for that with better SP scaling on fireball/pyro/etc...

It makes no sense to kill a spec like that on a whim. Fire is my fav spec

[Purpleisbetter]

Is it the crit reduction that has caused most of that ridiculous drop?

Blizzard were supposed to compensate for that with better SP scaling on fireball/pyro/etc...

It makes no sense to kill a spec like that on a whim. Fire is my fav spec

It's the loss of stats, which is affecting everybody PLUS a train of nerfs that killed any hope to produce some relevant output.

CM, Molten Armor, Pyretic Incantation, legendary wrist, Rune Of Power, Flame On, Combustion and indirectly Kindling got severely nerfed. Icy Floes removed just to ice the cake.

This untill the next PTR build which should provide more mechanical changes and a bit of number tuning.

Problem is that, given the what happend in the past 2 weeks, things might even get worse.

[Charge me Doctor]

Is it the crit reduction that has caused most of that ridiculous drop?

Blizzard were supposed to compensate for that with better SP scaling on fireball/pyro/etc...

It makes no sense to kill a spec like that on a whim. Fire is my fav spec

Again, if they want to compensate loss of almost 100k DPS by simply scaling damage up - they have to make fireball to do the same damage as pyroblast. Because you don't cast anything outside of fireball when low on crit.

[Geldor]

Again, if they want to compensate loss of almost 100k DPS by simply scaling damage up - they have to make fireball to do the same damage as pyroblast. Because you don't cast anything outside of fireball when low on crit.

On the other hand, that means it could be relatively easy to fix, for example make the 2pc Nighthold set bonus baseline (20% on EP for each Fireball). You'd still have to buff spells as Pyro etc. won't crit that often (which is so far part of the fun), but the rest of difference might be possible to do with baseline damage increases.

I hope we see some good changes (talents, baseline changes) in the next build. Not only damage tuning, because that won't be enough, I agree.

[D3athsting]

I got bracers from flaskataur and pyro were critting for 1.6 mil, also i might be wrong but it seems you need a lot of haste to fit hardcast pyro into Pyretic Incantation