A Simple Argument for the Tinker Class

[Gamevizier]

Monks, a class based on all those karate movies where unarmed people destroy tanks, turrets and people with guns.

Tinker's main flaw is that it's based around arguably the most hated race in the game: Gnomes. Pandaren are only slightly less hated.

And Goblins.

Your argument is invalid as Pandaren are among the least played races and Monks are still the least played class. so yes, a class designed specifically around Goblins and Gnomes does not seem that far fetched. unless you want to see a Night Elf driving a steam-powered suit. then best limit Tinkers to the two races already known for steampunk theme.

[Aeula]

And Goblins.

Your argument is invalid as Pandaren are among the least played races and Monks are still the least played class. so yes, a class designed specifically around Goblins and Gnomes does not seem that far fetched. unless you want to see a Night Elf driving a steam-powered suit. then best limit Tinkers to the two races already known for steampunk theme.

The problem is the theme. Gnomes get shat on all the time because they have little to no serious lore. They're a filler race at best. A class based on the gnomish theme would be about as popular as the monk, which is to say very unpopular.

Worse yet, they'd have to base an expansion around that theme.

[SheepHunter]

They should just give Tinkers Alchemy and Engineering as baseline and a 3rd prof free of choice. Just to give it some kind of class fantasy.

[Celista]

Please for the love of whatever... take your tinker(er) and put it someplace where all the fanboys can discuss about stuff that will hopefully never happen.
So we got the Deathknight. So we got the Demonhunter. So we got the Monk. These things have been added. What was left? Oh yeah "The Bard" and "The Tinker".

next on the list has more to do with races. OMG OMG Vrykul!! Naga!!! Ogres!!! Or even "halfdragons" have been mentioned.

Please stop it. Discussing stuff about "what if" does not mean shit. And dreaming about it on a forum does not get you anywhere either. Better off discussing it amongst your friends ingame or RL. And if you were my friend... I'll tell you to shut it.

Adding a playable dragon race would be pretty amazing, to be honest. I'd come back to WoW for that.

[Rhamses]

The problem is the theme. Gnomes get shat on all the time because they have little to no serious lore. They're a filler race at best. A class based on the gnomish theme would be about as popular as the monk, which is to say very unpopular.

Worse yet, they'd have to base an expansion around that theme.

Classes really shouldn't be added based on potential popularity, they should be added based on if they add anything to the game.

Also we're not just talking about Gnomes here; There's also Goblins and maybe other races.

[Thimagryn]

Yup, sounds to obvious.
Well then I am not a supporter.

Good for you then?

[Ielenia]

And Goblins.

Your argument is invalid as Pandaren are among the least played races and Monks are still the least played class. so yes, a class designed specifically around Goblins and Gnomes does not seem that far fetched. unless you want to see a Night Elf driving a steam-powered suit.

Think about this the right way: a new class that is open to almost all races is the least played... why would you think that a class that is restricted to the two least played races after the Pandaren would be successful? Or be more represented than monks, for that matter?

[Aeula]

Classes really shouldn't be added based on potential popularity, they should be added based on if they add anything to the game.

Also we're not just talking about Gnomes here; There's also Goblins and maybe other races.

Tinker would have to have an expansion themed to match it. Just like the last three classes. Pandaria wasn't too bad because there was a lot of lore we hadn't heard about before and the mogu/mantid helped make the storyline serious.

Goblins and gnomes have nothing serious about them. They worked for hearthstone because they fit the silly theme of that game. But an expansion based around 'tinkers' in WoW would be horrific.

[Teriz]

Tinker would have to have an expansion themed to match it. Just like the last three classes. Pandaria wasn't too bad because there was a lot of lore we hadn't heard about before and the mogu/mantid helped make the storyline serious.

Goblins and gnomes have nothing serious about them. They worked for hearthstone because they fit the silly theme of that game. But an expansion based around 'tinkers' in WoW would be horrific.

Gnomeregan situation is quite serious. Kind of a WoW version of Chernobyl.

Mimoron and the related raid dealing with Gnome origins. That was also pretty serious.

Siegecrafter Blackfuse and the various goblin centric storylines in MoP and subsequently WoD were serious.

We don't know much about Undermine, so that could go in a variety of directions. We have no idea what's currently happening on Kezan. There's also that mystery surrounding the Blingtron discussing some sort of robot war going on that threatens the races of Azeroth. Any of that could form the basis of an expansion.

- - - Updated - - -

Think about this the right way: a new class that is open to almost all races is the least played... why would you think that a class that is restricted to the two least played races after the Pandaren would be successful? Or be more represented than monks, for that matter?

Because three of the most popular classes have the least amount of racial choice.

[Traveler Voltin]

I guess its good my idea was over shadowed by stupid arguing.
Its currently in a bad place

[Ielenia]

Because three of the most popular classes have the least amount of racial choice.

Let's break that down, shall we? Right from the get go, you're wrong. Hunter is, according to WoW Census, is #1 most played class, and it's a class open to all races. Then we have the Druid, a class that, yes, has been open to just two classes up until Cataclysm. But let's break this down, ok? Races allowed to be druids were the Night Elf (#2 most played Alliance race) and Tauren (#3 most played Horde race). On top of that, the Druid class already has a rich backstory from the get go, thanks to all the stories from Warcraft 3 with Cenarius, Malfurion and the Night Elf campaign stories. Then... we have the Paladin. A 'must-have' class in many fantasy RPGs, especially table-tops. The Paladin is a tried-and-true concept that already brings with it, from the get-go, a ton of lore in its concept alone: a warrior that pledges his or her life to the gods, swearing to uphold their chosen god's tenets and pursue said god's goals. It is open to five classes, two of them being Humans (#1 most played Alliance race) and Blood Elves (#1 most played Horde race).

Do you see the issue with your argument, now? It doesn't matter that the classes like druid and paladins aren't broad in race choices (despite the fact that, even then, they have twice as many race choices than what your vision of the tech class should), because one or more of the races they have as options are highly played races.

EDIT: During Cataclysm they even gave the Priest class to gnomes, and a couple expansions later, the hunter class. Yet that didn't do anything to boost their population.

[SirCowdog]

Think about this the right way: a new class that is open to almost all races is the least played... why would you think that a class that is restricted to the two least played races after the Pandaren would be successful? Or be more represented than monks, for that matter?

Like it or not, Steampunk related stuff is pretty damn popular. Gnomes and Goblins have been part of the Warcraft universe almost since the beginning, way back in Warcraft 2.

I think you might be underestimating how popular a Tinker/Engineer class could be, although a LOT would depend on the context. Unfortunately I don't think they'd carry the same impact as DKs or DHs. This is probably also why Monks are not that popular of a class. When someone plays a DK, they're thinking they're in some way reliving the story of Arthas. They've got that tie to the lore. The same with Demon Hunters and Illidan. When someone plays a monk.....what exactly are they tied to? Taran Zhu? Chen Stormsnout? Why the hell are those guys and why do we even care?

That would be a real problem for a Tinker. What iconic Tinker or Engineers are there? The leader of the gnome faction? I've been playing WoW for over a decade and I STILL don't know that guy's name. Gallywix? He's just a fat, rich goblin, and a shady businessman/mob boss. Does he even know how to use a wrench?

No, I highly suspect that whatever the next hero class is, it will need to be something tied to a powerful icon of the game in order to work. Something tied to the old gods maybe? Or maybe the Titans? Possibly the dragon aspects? They can't just make up something new from out of the blue to support the Tinker/Engineer class. It won't work.

[Teriz]

Let's break that down, shall we? Right from the get go, you're wrong. Hunter is, according to WoW Census, is #1 most played class, and it's a class open to all races. Then we have the Druid, a class that, yes, has been open to just two classes up until Cataclysm. But let's break this down, ok? Races allowed to be druids were the Night Elf (#2 most played Alliance race) and Tauren (#3 most played Horde race). On top of that, the Druid class already has a rich backstory from the get go, thanks to all the stories from Warcraft 3 with Cenarius, Malfurion and the Night Elf campaign stories. Then... we have the Paladin. A 'must-have' class in many fantasy RPGs, especially table-tops. The Paladin is a tried-and-true concept that already brings with it, from the get-go, a ton of lore in its concept alone: a warrior that pledges his or her life to the gods, swearing to uphold their chosen god's tenets and pursue said god's goals. It is open to five classes, two of them being Humans (#1 most played Alliance race) and Blood Elves (#1 most played Horde race).

Let's break it down further:

The top 5 classes in WoW:

1. Hunter (all races)
2. Druid (4 races)
3. Paladin (5 races)
4. Demon Hunter (2 races)
5. Warrior (all races)

The majority of the top 5 are made up of the classes with the least amount of racial choice. Paladins and Druids have always been a popular choice because as you said, they have a large amount of lore. However, the reason they have so much lore is because they are limited to a small amount of races. Demon Hunters also benefitted from a high amount of lore thanks to the class being limited to just 2 races (and a nice level boost).

As for Hunter popularity, you can thank a few factors for that:

1.Only physical range class.
2.Beast pets.
3.Strong in PvE and PvP.
4. Very easy to level content.

The Hunter class has been OP for years, so its not hard to see why its so popular.

Do you see the issue with your argument, now? It doesn't matter that the classes like druid and paladins aren't broad in race choices (despite the fact that, even then, they have twice as many race choices than what your vision of the tech class should), because one or more of the races they have as options are highly played races.

It's important to remember that Paladins and Druids were always popular classes. When WoW began both Paladins and Druids could only be chosen by two races. Over the course of the game, those options were expanded.

EDIT: During Cataclysm they even gave the Priest class to gnomes, and a couple expansions later, the hunter class. Yet that didn't do anything to boost their population.

Yes, because Priests and Hunters don't really go well with the theme of the Gnome race. Again, the main reason behind the unpopularity of Gnomes and Goblins is that they're out of place, and the class choices don't really mesh well with the technological advanced nature of their respective races.

[Ielenia]

Let's break it down further:

The top 5 classes in WoW:

1. Hunter (all races)
2. Druid (4 races)
3. Paladin (5 races)
4. Demon Hunter (2 races)
5. Warrior (all races)

The majority of the top 5 are made up of the classes with the least amount of racial choice. Paladins and Druids have always been a popular choice because as you said, they have a large amount of lore. However, the reason they have so much lore is because they are limited to a small amount of races.

No, you're wrong. Race restriction has nothing to do with how much lore those classes have. Restricting the number of races one class can pick from does not "allow for more lore". I imagine, quite the opposite: didn't the paladin lore get expanded when they allowed Tauren in, for example? Can you give me an instance of a race actually losing lore when its race roster got expanded?

Demon Hunters also benefited from a high amount of lore thanks to the class being limited to just 2 races (and a nice level boost).

Wrong, once again. Demon Hunters were: a) already famous since Warcraft 3; and b) while still restricted in race choices, the two race choices for DHs are the two most played races in the whole game. (though, admittedly, Night Elves, before DHs, were #3 most played race, 2# for the Alliance).

It's important to remember that Paladins and Druids were always popular classes. When WoW began both Paladins and Druids could only be chosen by two races. Over the course of the game, those options were expanded.

Yeah, but at least one of the races of both those classes were already quite popular: Humans (obviously) and Night Elves.

Again, the main reason behind the unpopularity of Gnomes and Goblins is that they're out of place, and the class choices don't really mesh well with the technological advanced nature of their respective races.

I'd argue that's the least of those races' problems. I'd say because Gnomes are short, their overall look just looks completely out of place (like literal lawn gnomes coming to life): big, goofy, almost anime-like eyes, body proportions that look just weird... plus their voices can be quite grating to some, I imagine. Goblins suffer from similar problems too, though they feel less 'out of place' than Gnomes do, but not by much.

[Monstercloud]

Oh look, it's the 8/9th reiteration of this thread
Oh look, it's the same 2 people going back and forth, one who once admitted he argues just for the sake of arguing.

Once we got the confirmation of what the new class would be, you'd think this topic would be dead in the water, or at the very least some people would of learned by now, once this topic goes past 10 pages it turns into your classic "I know better than you, allow me to show you by repeating the thing I've said 200 times across 5 threads and make condescending remarks that somehow don't warrant action against me." and just quash it beforehand.

Honestly, I blame Blizz for showing the plans they have in store for future legion content. So instead of wasting time speculating on that, we're back to this nonsense.

Thanks Blizz.

[Shakou]

There's about as much a chance of getting tinker class as a frickin bard or something, never at all. Whatever the next one is it should be a caster anyways, with a heal spec. But regardless, if and when it does happen it's 2 expansions away.

[Teriz]

No, you're wrong. Race restriction has nothing to do with how much lore those classes have. Restricting the number of races one class can pick from does not "allow for more lore". I imagine, quite the opposite: didn't the paladin lore get expanded when they allowed Tauren in, for example? Can you give me an instance of a race actually losing lore when its race roster got expanded?

I'm talking about the class, not the race. And yeah, if you add too many races to a class, it tends to dilute its lore. Death Knights are a good example of this. Expanding DKs to all races diluted the flavor of the class. On the flip side, keeping Druids to four races enhanced that class' lore and allowed Blizzard to give them unique perks not found in other classes. Race-based forms, Moonglade, mounts, and other goodies. Paladins got a similar deal with race-based Paladin mounts. Shaman got race-based totems, and so forth.

Yeah, but at least one of the races of both those classes were already quite popular: Humans (obviously) and Night Elves.

True, but if you look at the class populations of both of those popular races, the most popular class among humans is Paladin, and the most popular class among Night Elves are Druids.

Could it be because Night Elves are so closely tied to Druids in lore? Could it be that Humans are so closely tied to Paladins in lore? I know one of the reasons I chose a NE Druid as my first class when I started WoW was because I enjoyed playing the Night Elf faction in WC3, and the Druids were among my favorite units. I doubt I was the only one.

I'd argue that's the least of those races' problems. I'd say because Gnomes are short, their overall look just looks completely out of place (like literal lawn gnomes coming to life): big, goofy, almost anime-like eyes, body proportions that look just weird... plus their voices can be quite grating to some, I imagine. Goblins suffer from similar problems too, though they feel less 'out of place' than Gnomes do, but not by much.

I disagree, I actually think the lack of a class for your race to attach to has a pretty major effect on the Gnome and Goblin populations. If you can't get attached to your character, you're not going to play your character for very long. I know nothing makes you less attached to your character than having your character armed with a sword and medieval shield, and then hopping into a car to drive around a city looking to pay debts. It simply doesn't mesh together well.

I'm willing to bet that the reason Goblin Shaman is the most popular class among Goblins is because the class utilizes lightning (a common trope among technology classes) and has mechanical totems, somewhat selling the fantasy that you're playing a high-tech class.

It should also be noted that no one said that Mekkatorque looked goofy piloting that mech in the Legion cutscene.

[Ielenia]

I'm talking about the class, not the race. And yeah, if you add too many races to a class, it tends to dilute its lore.

I disagree. I think the paladin lore got expanded when Blizzard allowed more races to pick the class. Same thing with the Druids.

Death Knights are a good example of this. Expanding DKs to all races diluted the flavor of the class.

"Diluted"? How? To be honest, I think it expanded.

Race-based forms, Moonglade, mounts, and other goodies. Paladins got a similar deal with race-based Paladin mounts. Shaman got race-based totems, and so forth.

Are you talking about lore, or character model graphics? Because the two aren't exactly 100% tied to each other. I mean, for example, I doubt there are only, nineteen different hair styles for human women in the world of Azeroth, and that no human woman has let her hair grow down to her waist, or went with two buns, a-la Chun-Li.

True, but if you look at the class populations of both of those popular races, the most popular class among humans is Paladin, and the most popular class among Night Elves are Druids.

Could it be because Night Elves are so closely tied to Druids in lore? Could it be that Humans are so closely tied to Paladins in lore?

Could it be? It could, but you cannot state as fact either way.

I disagree, I actually think the lack of a class for your race to attach to has a pretty major effect on the Gnome and Goblin populations. If you can't get attached to your character, you're not going to play your character for very long. I know nothing makes you less attached to your character than having your character armed with a sword and medieval shield, and then hopping into a car to drive around a city looking to pay debts. It simply doesn't mesh together well.

Well, that's your opinion. For me, what really kills attachment to a character for me are: bad character animations, bad voice, and overall character aesthetics. I leveled a female worgen druid from level 1 to around 40 before I could stand the worgen female's voice. She sounded like a 90 year old British woman who smoked ten packs of cigarettes a day, since she was ten. What helped me last that long was that I simply adored the human half's pish-posh British accented-voice. I did get the druid to level 90 thanks to a bug I found, back then, that if you transformed from human directly into your druid's travel form, and got into combat, when you got out of your travel form, you'd be in worgen form, but still have the human female voice. Then Blizzard fixed that bug, and not long after that I deleted that druid.

[Traveler Voltin]

Mekkatorque looked like a badass in the cinematic

[Teriz]

I disagree. I think the paladin lore got expanded when Blizzard allowed more races to pick the class. Same thing with the Druids.

Yeah, it got expanded, but it also got diluted because there's no way for the game to keep up with the lore and maintain balance. For example, the Tauren Sunwalkers, Blood Elf Blood Knights, and the Draenei Vindicators should all have different, yet similar spells to the Human paladin. Unfortunately, Blizzard isn't willing to invest the time to do that, so the lore behind those other Paladin groups suffers a bit.

Druids don't get affected as much because they're all under the same banner and they have race-based forms which helps distinguish them. It's also one of the main reasons behind their popularity.

"Diluted"? How? To be honest, I think it expanded.

Because DKs were almost always portrayed as Humans in WC3 and Orcs in WC2. Expanding it beyond those two races forced Blizzard to come up with reasons why those races were DHs. Also some races simply didn't fit the class. Gnomes being a prime example.

Are you talking about lore, or character model graphics? Because the two aren't exactly 100% tied to each other.

When you limit the races of a class it allows Blizzard to make the class more distinct, and enhances the lore behind the class. That's my point.

Could it be? It could, but you cannot state as fact either way.

Well its a fact that majority of Paladins overall are Human, and the majority of Druids overall are Night Elves.

Also the majority of Hunters are Night Elves and Blood Elves.

Well, that's your opinion. For me, what really kills attachment to a character for me are: bad character animations, bad voice, and overall character aesthetics.

Well all of that is known at the character selection screen. I started various Goblin and Gnome characters and I simply couldn't get past the absurdity of a character being surrounded by technology and not using that technology to fight with. I can understand if there's a few that choose to not go down the path of technology, but for none of them to? Just doesn't make sense given the starting zones of Goblins and Gnomes.

BTW, that absurdity works with Worgen because they go from being civilized to savage. Additionally, their racial lore ties them directly to Druids. Guess what the most popular class among Worgen is?

Druids.