Italy has a national referendum on Sunday

[Deleted]

fear not, we still have good pizza here

[Zelk]

https://www.sp.nl/onderwerp/euro

Seems our most left-wing party is also anti-euro.
Very understandable if the governments in other countries, like Italy, cause its value to drop.

Any left wing party that isn't anti-EU isn't really left wing at all.

[JohnBrown1917]

Any left wing party that isn't anti-EU isn't really left wing at all.

Only anti-euro, they are Euro-skeptics overall.

[alexw]

They're very vocally eurosceptic.
They're part of the EFDD group in the EU parliament, along with AfD, UKiP, Wolność or Sweden Democrats.
Sharing the spot with these right to far right parties is not what a typical left-aligned party does.
But, in the name of plausible deniability, they reject any left-right alignment.

Their similarities with Podemos are that they established themselves as a protest platform. Nothing else. They even predate Podemos by some 6 or 7 years.

They are not anti-EU they are anti-Euro and anti-elite and that includes EU elites. People get confused by this. They are strongly EU but not the EU that exists now. They don't want to leave it. They want to reform it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e-eurosceptics

The more significant rise has been that of the Eurosceptic Five Star Movement (M5S), an anti-establishment party founded by comedian Beppe Grillo. The M5S won a quarter of the national vote in 2013 and last month clinched the mayoral seats in Rome and Turin. Polls now show it has 30.6% of the vote, above the ruling Democratic party’s 29.8%.

Luigi Di Maio, the deputy speaker of the Italian parliament, has emerged as the most likely figure to lead the M5S at the next general election. He is critical of Brussels, but says the EU has become a scapegoat. “It was very often used by Italian politics as an alibi, it’s not guilty of everything it has been blamed for,” he told the Guardian.

But he still saw failings. “It’s an EU which has decided to abdicate from its role of protecting the internal market and protecting its citizens,” he said.

Despite its Euroscepticism, the M5S is committed to EU membership, although it has called for a national referendum on the euro. “A referendum which asks citizens if they want to remain in the euro, if they want to go in another direction, renegotiate the euro, or return to the lira,” says Di Maio.

[nextormento]

They are not anti-EU

They're still eurosceptics.
That they don't want to push an out doesn't mean they share any value whatsoever about what the EU is. In particular, they've hinted that they'd rather go back to the pre-Lisbon EC.
They're not particularly against European integration, but that "It's actually pretty strongly EU" is indubitably false.

[Shadowmelded]

Any left wing party that isn't anti-EU isn't really left wing at all.

Critical of it in it's current iteration/direction? Sure. Opposed to it in principle? Nah.

[nextormento]

Any left wing party that isn't anti-EU isn't really left wing at all.

Is this the new purity test after the 90's different pushes to get out of NATO, and the previous pushes to keep Marxism alive?.
The left is co-opted by its very definition .
We're critical, but there's nothing to oppose fundamentally.

[Zelk]

Critical of it in it's current iteration/direction? Sure. Opposed to it in principle? Nah.

The EU is and always has been a capitalist order.

[CellarDoor]

They are not anti-EU they are anti-Euro and anti-elite and that includes EU elites. People get confused by this. They are strongly EU but not the EU that exists now. They don't want to leave it. They want to reform it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e-eurosceptics

Its hilarious watching you clowns try to spin this as a victory for the left. The west is in 1920's Weimar Germany phase, the EU will collapse, and Europe will be nationalist alongside trumps America and Putins Russia. This is the right way forward and the right side of history. It is futile for you leftist dumb fucks to fight it and it is causing you more emotional harm than you already have (all leftists are emotionally damaged or insecure).

infracted - minor flaming

[Deleted]

Trump has nothing to do with brexit and whats going on in europe. Trump is americans beeing americans, just as they were with Bush. It's a problem rooted in religion and a defective electoral system. Nothing to do with europe.

Brexit was a spread of misinformation mixed with votes of protest. Spain and Greece is related to the difficult economic situation and the stranglehold of brussels towards austerity measures that choke the economy. Italy is a bit of the same. I doubt Italy leaves the EU, because Italy can't survive without the EU atm.
Oh this seems to be about the currency only. Tbh it might very well be a good idea for the periphery countries, at least temporarely. But i haven't looked at it in-depth.

[Shadowmelded]

The EU is and always has been a capitalist order.

Because it reflects it's member states which are capitalist. Disbanding the EU wouldn't change that.

[Kronik85]

Its hilarious watching you clowns try to spin this as a victory for the left. The west is in 1920's Weimar Germany phase, the EU will collapse, and Europe will be nationalist alongside trumps America and Putins Russia. This is the right way forward and the right side of history. It is futile for you leftist dumb fucks to fight it and it is causing you more emotional harm than you already have (all leftists are emotionally damaged or insecure).

I mean yeah, after the Weimar Republic failed and populism took hold over Europe we entered a real golden point in European history.

[alexw]

Its hilarious watching you clowns try to spin this as a victory for the left. The west is in 1920's Weimar Germany phase, the EU will collapse, and Europe will be nationalist alongside trumps America and Putins Russia. This is the right way forward and the right side of history. It is futile for you leftist dumb fucks to fight it and it is causing you more emotional harm than you already have (all leftists are emotionally damaged or insecure).

infracted - minor flaming

Yes of course it is. How is your flying unicorn doing?

[Thalassian Bob]

Looks like Renzi has resigned.

Wonder what this means for Italy's future in the EU. Next thing to watch in Europe is the French election as far as I'm aware.

[Eleccybubb]

Wanted to keep up with this but forgot. Are Italy staying or leaving?

[Thalassian Bob]

Wanted to keep up with this but forgot. Are Italy staying or leaving?

This was just to decide whether the Italian government should be "streamlined" (Yes) or left the same (No). But, the Yes campaigners largely represented Pro-EU, establishment groups, while the No voters were populist or left or right of centre.

It could lead to an EU referendum in the future.

[Eleccybubb]

This was just to decide whether the Italian government should be "streamlined" (Yes) or left the same (No). But, the Yes campaigners largely represented Pro-EU, establishment groups, while the No voters were populist or left or right of centre.

It could lead to an EU referendum in the future.

Ah I see my bad.

[Thalassian Bob]

Ah I see my bad.

Up until 20 minutes ago, I was unaware that this was even a thing that was happening. So, no judgement from me!

[Purpleisbetter]

The "NO" won for a plethora of reasons.

The constitutional change proposed, do not do what it's supposed to do.
They proposed this new Senate model where we couldn't vote for senators. Instead, the gov't would've been able to pick new senators among regional presidents, mayors and so on. So it fails our democratic principles and it would do jack squat in regard of cutting down our MASSIVE cost of politics.

Fun fact, Sicily president earn much more money then the US president, something like 16k euro per months against around 10-ish K dollars.
Another fun fact: our last elected prime minister was Berlusconi. In 2008.

Renzi made this Referendum affair totally personal. Too bad he screwed us over big times, never even tried to negotiate our dept nor tried to negotiate the fact that we're the THIRD largest contributor in the EU. Something we could not afford and sounded like a scam to us because we basically received nothing from the Union other then additional taxation, restrictions and massive damage to many micro/local economies.

Renzi failed to defend our interest in the midst of the massive migrant crysis (we're totally on the worst end of it), failed to reduce the fiscal pressure for small and medium sized enterprises. Failed to clean up his party and the public administration from the immense corruption, the wide spread clientelism and inefficiency. This last part is specially funny because those corrupted that should've been in jail could've been Senators for life had the referendum gone in a different way.

One thing he succeed is to increase politicians salaries and privileges. No seriously, he bought himself a f*Boeing 737 with public money. Wtf was that for!? Do we need the Air Force One now!?.

Ofc he refused every proposal from both Lega Nord, M5S and some center-right parties to abolish the political immunity. Him and the whole Partito Democratico kindly refused to even talk about it.

But, first and foremost, he (Renzi) failed the only task his NON-ELECTED government had from the very first day: coming up with a new, decent, election act that should promote stability and prevent politicians to change side(to the winning one, ofc) only to save their asses in order to keep their place in the parliament, betraying their voters.

- - - Updated - - -

Wanted to keep up with this but forgot. Are Italy staying or leaving?

Hard to tell. We surely don't posses the strength of the UK, so it makes us more unlikely to quit unless that's the only thing to do.

[NED funded]

Looks like Renzi has resigned.

Wonder what this means for Italy's future in the EU. Next thing to watch in Europe is the French election as far as I'm aware.

Not much. Its unconstitutional to call for referendums in regards to international agreements. The separatism movement whover that is would need to convince both chambers to approve it. It would've been easier if the yes won though.