Italy has a national referendum on Sunday

[Masark]

Fun fact, Sicily president earn much more money then the US president, something like 16k euro per months against around 10-ish K dollars.

No, the US president gets 33k/month (400k/year), plus a $50k/year expense account, $100k/year travel account, and $19k/year entertainment allowance.

[emedia]

The "NO" won for a plethora of reasons.

The constitutional change proposed, do not do what it's supposed to do.
They proposed this new Senate model where we couldn't vote for senators. Instead, the gov't would've been able to pick new senators among regional presidents, mayors and so on. So it fails our democratic principles and it would do jack squat in regard of cutting down our MASSIVE cost of politics.

Fun fact, Sicily president earn much more money then the US president, something like 16k euro per months against around 10-ish K dollars.
Another fun fact: our last elected prime minister was Berlusconi. In 2008.

Renzi made this Referendum affair totally personal. Too bad he screwed us over big times, never even tried to negotiate our dept nor tried to negotiate the fact that we're the THIRD largest contributor in the EU. Something we could not afford and sounded like a scam to us because we basically received nothing from the Union other then additional taxation, restrictions and massive damage to many micro/local economies.

Renzi failed to defend our interest in the midst of the massive migrant crysis (we're totally on the worst end of it), failed to reduce the fiscal pressure for small and medium sized enterprises. Failed to clean up his party and the public administration from the immense corruption, the wide spread clientelism and inefficiency. This last part is specially funny because those corrupted that should've been in jail could've been Senators for life had the referendum gone in a different way.

One thing he succeed is to increase politicians salaries and privileges. No seriously, he bought himself a f*Boeing 737 with public money. Wtf was that for!? Do we need the Air Force One now!?.

Ofc he refused every proposal from both Lega Nord, M5S and some center-right parties to abolish the political immunity. Him and the whole Partito Democratico kindly refused to even talk about it.

But, first and foremost, he (Renzi) failed the only task his NON-ELECTED government had from the very first day: coming up with a new, decent, election act that should promote stability and prevent politicians to change side(to the winning one, ofc) only to save their asses in order to keep their place in the parliament, betraying their voters.

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Hard to tell. We surely don't posses the strength of the UK, so it makes us more unlikely to quit unless that's the only thing to do.

Source: Beppe Grillo's Blog

[Glorious Leader]

Not odd at all.

Its the same anti-establishment movement over and over again caused by the negative impact left wing politics has on the native private sector worker.

We are all sick of your bullshit.

Neo liberal is not left wing. In point of fact the left was extrrmely critical of the euro project. Yanis varoufakas is practically a marxist and hes been incredible vocal about the obvious faults of the EU.

[Garnier Fructis]

You're not Italian, why do you give a fuck?

After the Taiwan thread, it's abundantly clear that people who have zero fucking clue about regional politics like to support or condemn events without knowing what the practical consequences would be, or how that would affect people living there.

Because it's so much easier to view the world in the binary terms of 'freedom' and 'oppression.'

[Theodarzna]

Neo liberal is not left wing. In point of fact the left was extrrmely critical of the euro project. Yanis varoufakas is practically a marxist and hes been incredible vocal about the obvious faults of the EU.

It is somewhat not, but no lefty really opposes it to any significant degree. The Left is largely willing accomplices now.

[Glorious Leader]

It is somewhat not, but no lefty really opposes it to any significant degree. The Left is largely willing accomplices now.

Again no not really the left. The neo liberals yes the actual left? No. Yanis varoufakis has been extremely critical of it. Theirs a whole body of literature written by leftists thats extremely critcal of the EU

[Shadowmelded]

It is somewhat not, but no lefty really opposes it to any significant degree. The Left is largely willing accomplices now.

Or under the belief that it can be reformed and it's sudden disappearance would be far worse than the status quo.

Again no not really the left. The neo liberals yes the actual left? No. Yanis varoufakis has been extremely critical of it. Theirs a whole body of literature written by leftists thats extremely critcal of the EU

I mean he is critical of it, but it's constructive criticism.

[BourneWolf]

Eh the five start movement supports basic income.

Basic income is not the solution.

It is another socialist implementation that ensures freeloaders get rewarded and hard workers get punished

[Oktoberfest]

This referendum can have a big impact on the future of the EU.

They try very hard to keep this from the mainstream news, but try to follow the outcome and results closely.

Leftism is finally falling. Thank God.

[Milchshake]

Funny that all the rabid alt-right people applaud this without even understanding what it's about, but I wouldn't expect anything less from populist ignorant people.

I dunno about that. Seems like facts, logic, and rationalism all died, like David Bowie... thanks 2016.

[Vilendor]

Funny that all the rabid alt-right people applaud this without even understanding what it's about, but I wouldn't expect anything less from populist ignorant people.

Thank god we have you... please keep preaching your "if you don't think what i think you are a stupidracisthomophobenazi" agenda... it works so well. For us.

[baatora]

Wait, what?

No, Italy will not leave Eurozone.
Yes, some political parties wants to leave it, especially the Northen League, the M5S (partially) and some extreme right party, but they are not the majority.

The No for the referendum was supported also by the left (and part of the center-left) and other sides which are europeists.
The Yes was supported only by half center-left and half center-right.

Renzi yesterday showed us what we already knew: he's a child, and when he loses he stomps his feets, crying. He could have continued to be the president, but well, he always liked these forms of extortion (for him every vote is a plebiscite, he overused the "Questione di Fiducia", etc etc).

The only thing scarying me are the future elections, where the M5S will win with the new Renzi's electoral reform.

[Purpleisbetter]

No seriously stop.

This referendum has nothing to do with us leaving the EU .
We just want to vote those who will lead us. Nothing more nothinh less.

[Deleted]

The UK won't be leaving anyway, they're trying hard to find a way to stay.

[serenka]

could someone ELI5 why a lot of rgiht wing supporters are happy that no vote won? i thought one of the main things people on the right like is "smaller government" and government generally having less powers, and isn't that what the yes vote was for? to streamline the government system and give it less powers?

my understanding of the Italy situation is limited, pardon my ignorance

[Thalassian Bob]

The UK won't be leaving anyway, they're trying hard to find a way to stay.

Yes. And it's fucking annoying. If the government actually chooses to disregard the popular vote on this, we will have a regime that does not serve the people, but rules over them. That will be deeply concerning.

France, Ireland, Greece, Netherlands... Pro-EU governments have rejected the will of the people before (forcing them to vote again until they pick the right answer) and I will be extremely disappointed if the UK government does it here.

That, combined with the Snooper's Charter, will have me seriously considering emigrating to the States.

[JohnBrown1917]

No seriously stop.

This referendum has nothing to do with us leaving the EU .
We just want to vote those who will lead us. Nothing more nothinh less.

Don't worry, Americans have weird views of European politics in general, we all have to deal with it... sadly.

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France, Ireland, Greece, Netherlands... Pro-EU governments have rejected the will of the people before (forcing them to vote again until they pick the right answer) and I will be extremely disappointed if the UK government does it here.
.

Most people here did not give a shit about the Ukraine referendum either way, so meh..
Not like i'll be voting for either governing party any way.

[S7orm]

could someone ELI5 why a lot of rgiht wing supporters are happy that no vote won? i thought one of the main things people on the right like is "smaller government" and government generally having less powers, and isn't that what the yes vote was for? to streamline the government system and give it less powers?

my understanding of the Italy situation is limited, pardon my ignorance

Right wingers are happy because someone on TV told them they should be. Elections in Italy have always been a big propagandistic joke

[Tierbook]

could someone ELI5 why a lot of rgiht wing supporters are happy that no vote won? i thought one of the main things people on the right like is "smaller government" and government generally having less powers, and isn't that what the yes vote was for? to streamline the government system and give it less powers?

my understanding of the Italy situation is limited, pardon my ignorance

The Yes vote gives the Italian more power, not less. A vote yes would allow the Italian government to bail out the banks which are in danger of failing atm. As it stands the EU will not allow Italy to bail them out so they are weakening atm.

[Deleted]

So... Italeave is about to happen?