Healer dps (or lack of it) in M+

[Helcion]

Actually, I do spec Afterlife so that I can either A) keep the group up when the tank doesn't get aggro right away or people don't interrupt mechanics or B) keep up my crazy guildmates who spend the runs trying to see how much they can successfully pull. A lot of times, they *will* pull trash straight into the boss, so I won't exactly have downtime on a boss either.

Honestly, I dps when I can because it's boring just sitting around and twiddling thumbs (and unless I want to run into melee for holy nova, holy dps is really sad). The thing that bothers me though is that the OP looked at damage meters at the end of the run, rather than making actual observations during the run. What I want to know is, was the healer standing around doing nothing, or were they constantly healing because dps were standing in mechanics? You won't get that information from staring at the damage done.

Afterlife is bad in m+, period. Censure is the much better option due to granting the healer an opportunity to stun a mob for 5s (provided no DR), during which time no one is taking damage from that mob. There is no situation in m+ where 7.5 extra seconds on an ability that requires you to die to use it, is preferable to an on-demand stun.

I don't think OP was upset that the druid healer didn't pull X amount of DPS. He was upset that he used 0 globals to contribute to the group's dps. It's hard to believe that in the entire run, there was no downtime to cast even 1 Sunfire. Given that OP saw 0 dmg done over the duration, he probably concluded that the druid was lazy but came to MMO-C to get a consensus. Of which, most good players agree with him.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Yup HUGE issue right now, and part of the reason people are just bringing 4 dps.
Its never going to change as you can tell by the replies in this thread. People make up every excuse in the world to not play to the best of their ability instead of just admitting they can improve and trying to do so.

News flash guys: healers have been able to impact the dungeon with high DPS since MoP. Time to learn whats going on in this game and stop spam healing the DK tank at 99 percent health.

The amount of times I outheal the healer and he does double digit dps is embarrassingly high.

[shaunika123]

do you expect dps to use abilities that keep them alive? yes
then ofc healers are expected to dps if they can

[Frode]

I've personally lost 3 chest runs due to having pug healers who do 0 dps, even though there is plenty of downtime to actually do some. Funny enough, those healers tend to also be the worst ones i've played with, the really good healers can manage healing and dpsing inbetween downtime, whereas weaker healers can't manage anything apart from staring at their frames.

[Deleted]

[QUOTE=Swordfish Trombone;43600903]Yes of course, everyone should be doing whatever they can to make the run as fast and as easy as possible.
Healers and Tanks should try to maximize their DPS. DPS should maximize their survival, everyone should work with stuns, interrupts etc.

Not really rocket science.

But if you're pugging, your results may vary and you can't really complain if they don't. Playing with random people gives random results. If that bothers you, then don't play with random people.

[COLOR="#417394"][SIZE=1]

Pretty much this. Play with random people and you might end up with lazy people.

[Dietrik]

On my healer with guildies i always dps, with pugs far too frequently am forced to do none or very little. I want to.

So i usually link the tank and dps's avoidable damage. Your job is to maximize dps and take as little damage as you can, I'll dps when i can but i need to heal through the fail.

[ArnoldsDad]

I think its fair and reasonable that a healer should DPS, I have expectations of Tanks and DPS and I expect that they have expectations of me.

However I do notice that there are a lot of healers that refuse to DPS and that is just frustrating.

M+ are designed to challenge the groups so that you are forced to play and contribute rather than just ignoring all the mechanics and sitting on follow, if your a healer that refuses to DPS you shouldn't run M+.

[dexx]

I checked total damage done like I usually do and noticed that our druid healer had managed to pull a grand total of 0 damage. Not even a single Sunfire cast.

Blizz promised that healer dps would be a bit more useful in this expansion. However i've found my druid healer's damage to be so pathetic that its not worth doing.

[Ahovv]

its healer's job to keep ppl alive, u ran through the m+ and u got the kill, dont see anything wrong with that. Some healers just hate dpsing thats why they play a healer, if u want healer to do dps ask for a disc priest where dps is required to do healing. Running a pug and pushing ur agenda and telling how they should play is just silly, i would understand if u are in a mythic guild pushing for server/world first. Let others play the game the way they want to or just run with guildy/frds

They can play how they want; doesn't make it optimal.

A healer dealing more damage while keeping everyone alive is more valuable than someone who refuses to deal damage.

[ArnoldsDad]

Blizz promised that healer dps would be a bit more useful in this expansion. However i've found my druid healer's damage to be so pathetic that its not worth doing.

What is the cut off that makes healer DPS worthwhile?

I play a druid and Sunfire, Moonfire and Solar Wrath spam is easy 110K+ on a boss and more on trash, worst case don't have time to cast SW you can still pull 50K+ and that is in mastery gear.

[Deleted]

Blizz promised that healer dps would be a bit more useful in this expansion. However i've found my druid healer's damage to be so pathetic that its not worth doing.

Go watch Naguras stream on twitch and get some tips. A druid that mostly play resto in m+, really nice to see how much she is able to dps while keeping everyone up.

[Cheze]

healers *should* spend down time dpsing, but most of the time it's not actually relevant

on my druid I dot up trash and wrathspam as much as I can, but I rarely do more than 4-5% of the group's damage

[Emerald Archer]

It's not a big ask, to expect a healer to do some dps if they don't have anything to heal.
The same way that you'd expect a dps who had the ability to self heal, to top themselves up if there was nothing for them to dps.
Or the same way you'd expect a tank to still dps the boss, when they aren't the one with aggro.

But, these are expectations that don't get met or need to get met at lower difficulty levels. Not everyone is a good player, some people are perfectly happy to be bad. So let them. If they would rather sit there for 10 seconds not casting a single spell, than cast a moonfire, they're bad, but that's okay. Some people just don't want to put in the little extra effort.

In WoD, I played a feral druid, and on Iron Reaver, if he was in the air, and there was nothing to kill, hell yeah I was throwing heals out on me and others. I had nothing else to do, may as well be useful.
Or in MoP, damn right I was using hotw tranq when I could have dps'd, goal is to kill the boss. You do what you have to do.

I'm a healer now, resto druid, and I will still throw out damage where I can. It always helps, even if it's just a little.

It's just lazy or due to lack of skill if people don't.

[Emerald Archer]

As an aside, the ridiculous numbers people occasionally see are largely because of expensive dps pots that most people just won't use for mythic+ trash. Personally I'd only expect healers to use old war (or deadly grace) pots on 12+ tyrannical boss pulls (or on raiding content when with hero on pull, healers can do a ton of damage on almost any boss during hero and should pot (I always pot with my tank); after all the dps have to pay that cost, why not the healers

I think potting for m+ depends on it, if you aren't sure if you can +3 a 10, but want to really badly, then yeah, have the healer pot for bosses and trash taht doesn't do a lot of damage. But if you can comfortably hit your goal, just pot with lusts on bosses or when needed (On like 11+)

On like a 15 though, alll the pots, grace on trash that doesn't do much damage, prolonged on those that do. Etc

[Emerald Archer]

This is it really, dungeons profit a lot from consumable use problem is consumables are too expensive. Imo I do not like the way that consumables work in WoW (I would prefer we had access to a lot more consumables that were cheaper to make so people could just go crazy for high end content and lower skill guilds could manage to push content by upping their consumable budget; it's an RPG staple after all)

See for me, since the blood vendor, consumables have been quite easy to come across. You just have to do content for bloods lol or farm a little herbs

[Noidm]

I can not wrap my head around the "I don't have to" argument. Doesn't it make your class more challenging to play? I understand when a healer would not go for a perfect rotation when a group out-gears content. However, not doing DPS at all blows my mind. What possible reason could someone have to not make it go faster? Isn't that the whole point of mythic+?

[TheRabidDeer]

Yup HUGE issue right now, and part of the reason people are just bringing 4 dps.
Its never going to change as you can tell by the replies in this thread. People make up every excuse in the world to not play to the best of their ability instead of just admitting they can improve and trying to do so.

News flash guys: healers have been able to impact the dungeon with high DPS since MoP. Time to learn whats going on in this game and stop spam healing the DK tank at 99 percent health.

The amount of times I outheal the healer and he does double digit dps is embarrassingly high.

As a resto druid it is somewhat difficult to do 3 digit DPS in higher mythics. I only put out 150k max ST (and that is without healing at all). My holy paladin can put out a lot more than that, but not every healer has the damage capability of a holy paladin.

[Deja Thoris]

healers *should* spend down time dpsing, but most of the time it's not actually relevant

on my druid I dot up trash and wrathspam as much as I can, but I rarely do more than 4-5% of the group's damage

So helping the group do something 4-5% faster isn't relevant in your eyes?

In most things in the world people would be thrilled with a 4-5% increase in efficiency. Especially when it could turn a 2 chest run into a 3 or a tight +12 into a run you completed on time.

[Mastho]

I dps whenever it will make a meaningful difference.
Meaningful being whenever it could make the difference between +2 or +3 chests/when progressing on bosses.

When it is just a casual lower mythic or heroic whatever, I sometimes cba to do much else than semi afk keep people alive and just watch random stuff on my 2nd screen.

That being said, when I do dps I can find myself getting too drawn into it and let people get risky low health, so i'd rather be safe and just focus more on the healing than the dpsing at times. I can understand that some healers barely want to dps, because that mix of attention required to keep people alive and dps can be quite taxing and annoying, especially when you get into +10 or so where people can die in a second.

[Wild]

1. Don't complain about a healer doing zero DPS when u finish ur dungeon without any wipes or even any deaths.
2. Don't complain if u force the healer to do DPS when people start dying or the group even wipes.

If u have downtime to throw in a few DPS spells as healer, do it, if not, dont worry about it and focus on ur main job, which is keeping people alive.