A Simple Argument for the Tinker Class

[Shammyrock]

I'm pretty sure you can attack while mounted (might be wrong on that). I do know the PvP talent has a knockback when you run through targets and doubles its duration.

Yeah but it's more the mount having its own abilities tied to it beyond being a pure movement speed increase. Pvp effect otherwise.

[Rhamses]

#1 is, in my opinion, the most likely to be used, considering it's "generic" enough. Just a cooldown, though I think it'll have to behave differently than, for example, the Demon Hunter's cooldown. #2 is the second most likely, considering it shares the same resource management as Shadow Priests (build-up resource, unleash power to cause more damage while resource steadily depletes). #3, in my opinion, is just not going to happen, as, as far as I can see, it "intrudes" too much into Druid "territory".


Balancing, most likely. Also design time.


Or cheapen the Druid's uniqueness. Being "tech-based" is already more than unique enough on its own, no need to try to steal other classes' shtick.


If a class gets "full customization" based on race, it diminishes the possibility of that class ever being opened to other races, as it wouldn't just be a small change, but actually a big endeavor to design a new "customization" for the new race being added.

I don't think that a Gnome or Goblin transforming into a Gnome or Goblin riding a mecha would intrude on Druid too much, or steal their uniqueness. The Gnome and Goblin aren't changing forms, they're simply calling in a robot to ride on.

Also if we're limiting the full-time mech riding to the tanking spec, that would be a significant difference from the Druid class.

Obligatory:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aGrUGYdbSo

[Ielenia]

I don't think that a Gnome or Goblin transforming into a Gnome or Goblin riding a mecha would intrude on Druid too much, or steal their uniqueness. The Gnome and Goblin aren't changing forms, they're simply calling in a robot to ride on.

Also if we're limiting the full-time mech riding to the tanking spec, that would be a significant difference from the Druid class.

One thing that really bugs me about this "mech" idea: it basically makes gear useless. I mean, it's not protecting you, since you're in your mech, and your mech would be doing the damage, not your weapon. At least Druids can use the "excuse" that the magic within their gear boost their shapeshifted forms' attributes.

[Thimagryn]

One thing that really bugs me about this "mech" idea: it basically makes gear useless. I mean, it's not protecting you, since you're in your mech, and your mech would be doing the damage, not your weapon. At least Druids can use the "excuse" that the magic within their gear boost their shapeshifted forms' attributes.

The Mech Suit itself would be a tool, while the skill using it is all attributed to how well the user handles it. I imagine the skill of the Mech is dependant on the user, like in Edge of Tomorrow. Tom Cruise is in the mech suit and dies like a chump every time, but once he masters the suit and trains his reflexes and awareness, he's an unstoppable machine. The Mech Suit has strong weaponry which justifies a 'cooldown', but your gear is what enhances your stats which are reflected in how you use it in combat. Kinda like Mekkatorque shooting that demon without looking, that's not something the Mech suit does for him, that's his own skill.

[Ielenia]

Kinda like Mekkatorque shooting that demon without looking, that's not something the Mech suit does for him, that's his own skill.

I'd say, considering the cinematic, the mech does everything for him, as in, an automated thing, as, according to Mekkatorque, he's busy "trans-angulating their position" when the mech blasts the demon, with Mekkatorque apparently only being aware of the demon AFTER the blast happens. Could he be doing both? Possible, but very unlikely, in my opinion.

[Teriz]

#1 is, in my opinion, the most likely to be used, considering it's "generic" enough. Just a cooldown, though I think it'll have to behave differently than, for example, the Demon Hunter's cooldown. #2 is the second most likely, considering it shares the same resource management as Shadow Priests (build-up resource, unleash power to cause more damage while resource steadily depletes). #3, in my opinion, is just not going to happen, as, as far as I can see, it "intrudes" too much into Druid "territory".


Balancing, most likely. Also design time.


Or cheapen the Druid's uniqueness. Being "tech-based" is already more than unique enough on its own, no need to try to steal other classes' shtick.


If a class gets "full customization" based on race, it diminishes the possibility of that class ever being opened to other races, as it wouldn't just be a small change, but actually a big endeavor to design a new "customization" for the new race being added.

Sorry, I simply don't see a Druid overlap, or an issue about expanding the class to other races. Horde-based Tinkers would use Goblin designs and Alliance based Tinkers would use Gnome designs.

- - - Updated - - -

One thing that really bugs me about this "mech" idea: it basically makes gear useless. I mean, it's not protecting you, since you're in your mech, and your mech would be doing the damage, not your weapon. At least Druids can use the "excuse" that the magic within their gear boost their shapeshifted forms' attributes.

Your gear would still be protecting you while you're inside the vehicle. All of those mechs have open cockpits, which means the user is still vulnerable to attacks aiming for the pilot up top.

So despite Mekkatorque or Blackfuse riding around in a mech, a Draenei or Tauren can still walk up and punch either one in the face, or a Mage could lob a fireball into the cockpit, etc.

As for weapons being stat sticks, Monks do that currently in the game. You can equip weapons but you never use them, you just use your fists. It really blows too because the twin swords the WW monk gets are very nice looking.

[Traveler Voltin]

is gear useless on druid?

[Ielenia]

Sorry, I simply don't see a Druid overlap,

A class that has different "forms" for different specs (just like the druids), that remain in said forms throughout the entire fight (just like druids) and have special "forms" for air, ground and water travel (just like the druids), will have four specs (just like the druids), restricted to just two races (just like druids, initially)... but it has no overlap with the druids? You're basically taking the druid class and replacing all the character models and skins with tech/robot art instead of animal/nature art.

[Teriz]

I'd prefer option 3 for a tank spec. I think a DPS spec would be better served going with option 2 since that type of gameplay tends to be more fast-paced.

There's also the Divine Steed mechanic. I guess that could be option 4? I'd like to see that used in a DPS spec in conjunction with option 2.

I wouldn't consider Divine Steed an option 4. However, it can definitely be an aspect of a DPS spec. I picture the DPS spec could potentially work more like the old Demonology spec where you primarily fight from physical range, and you enter your "super form" and fight in semi-melee range (I'm pretty sure you said that above). Just like the old Demonology spec, the character's abilities would transform as he enters mech phase. I think the Divine Steed mechanic could just be a short cooldown that you use to advance, escape, or get better positioning, or to enter mech form (like Demonic leap). It would also be pretty cool to see a character darting across the battlefield in a mech suit.

I think for the majority of the time though, the DPS spec should be a physical ranged class that uses turrets and other devices.

[Ielenia]

is gear useless on druid?

At least Druids can use the "excuse" that the magic within their gear boost their shapeshifted forms' attributes.

/10characters

[Teriz]

A class that has different "forms" for different specs (just like the druids), that remain in said forms throughout the entire fight (just like druids) and have special "forms" for air, ground and water travel (just like the druids), will have four specs (just like the druids), restricted to just two races (just like druids, initially)... but it has no overlap with the druids? You're basically taking the druid class and replacing all the character models and skins with tech/robot art instead of animal/nature art.

Nah, its just one form that alternates between flight, marine, and mount. The DPS spec wouldn't have a permanent mech form, but it should look similar to the tank form, just with more ranged weaponry.

[Ielenia]

Nah, its just one form that alternates between flight, marine, and mount.

That's still heavily encroaching on the Druid's uniqueness. I mean, why can't shaman transform into an aquatic form? Why can't mages fly using magic? I mean, it's not like the concept is alien, since the spell Levitate exists, and some objects DO fly around with magic.

[Teriz]

That's still heavily encroaching on the Druid's uniqueness. I mean, why can't shaman transform into an aquatic form? Why can't mages fly using magic? I mean, it's not like the concept is alien, since the spell Levitate exists, and some objects DO fly around with magic.

Monks could fly using magic, and Shaman transform into animals and have a travel form.

[Ielenia]

Monks could fly using magic, and Shaman transform into animals and have a travel form.

No Monk flies around using that cloud, which only goes to 150% speed flying, and normal run speed on land, whereas Druid flying form flies at max flying speed, and you'll be hard pressed to find a druid that flies around not in travel form. Same thing with the land mount: very rare are the druids that do not use travel form on land, as well, whereas Shaman's ghost wolf form only reaches 30% speed, which is less than the slowest mount available.

[-Joker-]

But our Engineers don't resemble Mekkatorque. Our own engineers can't invent machines like mechanostriders, or the Deeprun Tram. As Engineers, our skill and application of Engineering is not done in the same way as Mekkatorque. There is no lore that supports that any of our characters can train themselves to create vehicles that have never existed before.

Aside from this, Mekkatorque's title is High Tinker.

No. I'm saying there is no proof that Engineers customizes their own technology, therefore there is room for a Class that can and does. The idea that Engineers invent machines has not been supported by lore.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/profession/engineering

Engineers take advantage of their inventiveness to create an immense (and occasionally random) variety of helpful items. By tinkering ceaselessly, and tolerating malfunctions and misfires, an engineer can make utterly unique objects: sight-enhancing goggles, potent guns, robot pets, mechanical mounts, and even more unusual trinkets. Successful engineers use their inventions to solve problems and make life easier, faster, and better for themselves and their companions.

I think you are confusing gameplay with Lore. Most NPC gnome engineers are inventors, so it stands to reason that we too are inventors. Trainers and schematics are needed for gameplay, not for Lore.

[Snes]

Tinkers are masters of ALL technology. This would allow them to utilize tech that simple engineers can't - namely Anima and Titan technology.

[Teriz]

No Monk flies around using that cloud, which only goes to 150% speed flying, and normal run speed on land, whereas Druid flying form flies at max flying speed, and you'll be hard pressed to find a druid that flies around not in travel form. Same thing with the land mount: very rare are the druids that do not use travel form on land, as well, whereas Shaman's ghost wolf form only reaches 30% speed, which is less than the slowest mount available.

So it's not about the fact that those classes use magic to fly or to transform into animals to move quickly, it's about the speed at which they do it? Okay..... So if Blizzard decides to increase the movement speed of Monks and Shaman, you'd have an issue with it?

Additionally it should be noted that flying and moving via technology is different than moving and flying via magic.

Btw, if we're worried about class popularity, taking notes from one of the most popular classes in the game is a good idea.

[Lochton]

So far I only saw it on my Paladin (but have only levelled 4 classes to 110)

Because, it is only for Paladin and I think, Death Knight.

[Teriz]

Because, it is only for Paladin and I think, Death Knight.

Yep, Dark Horseman and Argent Steed.

[Ielenia]

So it's not about the fact that those classes use magic to fly or to transform into animals to move quickly, it's about the speed at which they do it? Okay..... So if Blizzard decides to increase the movement speed of Monks and Shaman, you'd have an issue with it?

Yes, and no. First off, the reason those abilities were added at such low speeds is because Blizzard doesn't want it replacing actual mounts, unlike how it works for the Druid, where travel forms do replace mounts and are intended to do so.

Additionally it should be noted that flying and moving via technology is different than moving and flying via magic.

Not in gameplay terms. It would still be a character replacing mounts in lieu of a class ability that gives the character a "different form" to travel in.

Btw, if we're worried about class popularity, taking notes from one of the most popular classes in the game is a good idea.

Make them unique and interesting on their own, not because they're copy-pasting from other classes. It's like you're admitting the class isn't interesting on its own and has to copy what other, more interesting classes, can do.