Kosak has left the building

[Jester Joe]

I don't what is missable about "HAHAHHA LOOK AT ME HOW IM STEALING THIS [Plot related artifact]. NOW LOOK AT ME USING THIS EVIL LOOKING LOOKALIKE ! SURELY THERE IS NO CONNECTION AT ALL"

I mean seriously, it doesn't take much brain exercise to make connection.

Yet again, it doesn't look alike. Did you see the images? It's just the same shape, and the 2nd form looks like generic shoein Emerald Nightmare Crystal doodad 8.

[Arrashi]

Yet again, it doesn't look alike. Did you see the images? It's just the same shape, and the 2nd form looks like generic shoein Emerald Nightmare Crystal doodad 8.

It's the most generic storytelling. Come on, i was born in the night but it wasn't the last night. I mean, do you want him to spell it word by word ?
"Hah, now i will use this [Tear of Elune] that i stole from you 2 quests ago ! If you look closer you will see resemblance ! Now, in order to change its color i, xavius (in case you forgot my name) corrupted it by infusing it with my power ! As you may know, i am tied to nightmare which uses black and red as our main color scheme and as such this artifact is now red to resemble the corruption, that i xavius bestowed upon it ! Now, in a true spirit of ancient cliche of 'villain uses artifact of good to cause evil' i will use it to corrupt Ysera ! Do you want me to repeat any of what i just said ? If so press A"

[Jester Joe]

It's the most generic storytelling. Come on, i was born in the night but it wasn't the last night. I mean, do you want him to spell it word by word ?
"Hah, now i will use this [Tear of Elune] that i stole from you 2 quests ago ! If you look closer you will see resemblance ! Now, in order to change its color i, xavius (in case you forgot my name) corrupted it by infusing it with my power ! As you may know, i am tied to nightmare which uses black and red as our main color scheme and as such this artifact is now red to resemble the corruption, that i xavius bestowed upon it ! Now, in a true spirit of ancient cliche of 'villain uses artifact of good to cause evil' i will use it to corrupt Ysera ! Do you want me to repeat any of what i just said ? If so press A"

None of this even bothered to address the fact that they don't look alike, nor the fact that I said simply keeping the base would have been enough to show it.

[Kralljin]

I agree. The diversity Legion offered is amazing.

Personally i dislike how they just threw in the Emerald Nightmare for no reason.

I mean Val'sharah was fine, but the raid was just horrible.

And it didn't really fit into the Legion theme, did Xavius now serve the Legion? Still N'zoth? Both at the same time?

[Arrashi]

None of this even bothered to address the fact that they don't look alike, nor the fact that I said simply keeping the base would have been enough to show it.

Same shape, same size, both apparently powerful as it could corrupt ysera. I mean come on, the only way they could make it more obvious is by making it npc on its own named "Corrupted tear of elune <yes, that one>.

[Jester Joe]

Same shape, same size, both apparently powerful as it could corrupt ysera. I mean come on, the only way they could make it more obvious is by making it npc on its own named "Corrupted tear of elune <yes, that one>.

They're the same size and shape. That doesn't make them the same object though. It also doesn't explain why the base disappeared. If they kept the base, there wouldn't be this issue.

[Mehrunes]

I hated half of Kosak's work, but I like it how people far less accomplished than him and probably will never be are calling him a retard with low IQ.

Why?

On the other hand, he did defend Jaina when the forums exploded with hate for no reason so...

There are plenty reasons to dislike Jaina, her hypocrisy being the main factor.

Seriously? The hate she gets is way over the top. Everything she did was understandable and in-character. She is in no way a perfect human being, but a yes, a consistent and interesting character.

Jaina is many things. Consistent is not one of them.

I say good riddance. It was about time they booted him for all the shitty inconsistency in storytelling, for all the whole Hellscream bullshit and his Unstoppable Hordes even though Lorewise it didn't made sense, for all the Cataclysm Fourth War and WOD, for all the stupidly neutral as fuck factions he created and all his inconsistencies like the Demons need to die in the Nether and showing different things in videos than during the game, for his Orcs changing loyalties in one night and dissapear from the map, for creating armies out of nowhere like they are Money falling down from trees. I could say more but that would take too long. The bottom Line is his bullshit made Warcraft lose half it's playerbase and from the bottom of my heart I say goodbye. May you forever stay in there and never come back and take all those that love your bullshit with you.

OK, I dislike Kosak, but let's blame only when it's due. The main Horde wasn't unstoppable and their victories made sense. Iron Horde was the embodiment of "stoppable". Faction war already started in WotLK and it, together with other WotLK events, is the background for Cata war. And Kosak wasn't the lead in WotLK. Neutral factions were a thing prior to Cata too, including the WotLK with aforementioned faction conflict (hell, Ulduar cinematic covers that extensively). Non-Nathrezim demons already came back prior to Cata, let alone the statement about demons and Nether. And not sure what you mean about Orcs disappearing from the map, but armies appearing out of nowhere isn't Kosak-only thing either.

OK, so they follow the best storytelling advice ever given and "show, don't tell" and because it went over YOUR head you think it needs to be clearer?

Except showing us the Tear being corrupted wouldn't be telling. It would be, iunno, showing.

Maybe you just need to pay attention.

I know, I'm being mean, but Val'Sharah is quite possibly the best and most cohesive storyline that WoW has EVER had. Prior to it I'd think the closest would be the Redpath story from Eastern Plaguelands.

From the top of my head, let's go with Jade Forest. What was less cohesive about that? If anything, the link between Nightmare, Xavius and the Legion is a bit sloppy.

It totally and completely gives us a reason for going into the Emerald Nightmare which is way more justification than any other first tier/introductory raid to an expansion or even vanilla has got.

And this is outright false. TBC was an odd one being a clusterfuck in this regard, but rest expansions make their first raids pretty justified. Even vanilla, despite it's general lack of polish in lore does.
Vanilla: the issue of Ragnaros and his forces spans multiple zones.
WotLK: Naxxramas' return was foreshadowed in vanilla already, then is mentioned extensively during DK starting zone, then covered in Dragonblight; Nexus war is covered in Borean Tundra with tidbits in other zones.
Cata: Twilight Highlands is a clear path to Bastion of Twilight; Uldum is clear path to Throne of the Four Winds; Blackwing Descent, while not covered as much in-game, is made obvious in the Cata cinematic.
MoP: Dread Wastes for Heart of Fear; Hear of Fear (with a bit of Vale of Eternal Blossoms) for Terrace of the Endless Spring; Kun-Lai summit for Mogu'shan Vaults.
WoD: Iron Horde and Ogre Empire alliance is mentioned in multiple zones.

Where i can buy one of your romance, book, novel or essay? You must be the best writer ever know!

Instead of just bashing other people and WoW lore with arguments like "Thrall went Dragonball Z (?)" (yeah because Tirion was different with Lich King), tell us what could be done instead.

This is fallacious reasoning. Lack of alternatives proposed does not invalidate criticism.

Retarded isn't a word to be thrown around easily. People make mistakes, and sometimes terrible ones. Even if you messed up big time, you shouldn't be called a retard. Period.

True, let's not insult retards by comparing Kosak to them :3 There's always a chance there are people with intellectual disability that are more competent at storytelling than him after all and equalizing Kosak's works with theirs would be rather demeaning to them.

It was emphasized. What do you think we were doing in Val'sharah anyway? Why do you think we needed to go into DHT? What do you think killed ysera? He thought it was a piece of the nightmare but she's been dealing with that shit forever, it was obviously something more powerful. It's the main reason we were in that zone.

We actually get the Tear before going into DHT. And there's no logical link between the Tear being our main objective in Val'sharah and it being the thing Xavius used to corrupt Ysera. Also, it's been said throughout the zone that Xavius has gotten stronger. Given that he overpowered Malfurion who previously was the one to stop him, combined with the fact that Ysera didn't even go against the Nightmare Lord prior to Legion does lend credibility to the idea that Xavius alone could have corrupted Ysera on his own.

The only way to emphasize it more than that is to have a corny supervillain who explains all of his plans, why he's doing them and what's going to happen when he succeeds. That's how this shit happens man. Like how did @Jester Joe you think we got the tear stone anyway?anyway? This post was about you so I want you to know you're being mentioned.

Showing the Tear being corrupted doesn't require any explanation from Xavius whatsoever. Here, I found a way to emphasize it more without Xavius going corny supervillain mode. And @Jester Joe already explained how he thought we got the Tear. That being Elune making a new one when she saved Ysera's spirit while she wept for her. Which was the consensus for what happened during Beta actually.

I've always been kind of skeptical of the tendency for the playerbase to totemize specific people on the Blizzard development and treat them as the origin of *all* the game's ills or as their personal bogeyman of some kind. Be it Metzen, Street, or Kosak - people seem to think these individuals exist in a vacuum and somehow direct aspects of the game unilaterally. They lead teams who all contribute to the game as a group, and their particular imprint on the game is actually more high level or overarching concepts than the very specific aspects the players often roast them over. WoW, like all games, is the product of many development teams working together with varying degrees of smoothness to create the final product under discussions: class balance, narrative flow, gaming systems, etc. You can certainly love or hate those things, or any degree of emotion in between, but trying to pin them on a single individual doesn't strike me as a fair or applicable approach.

While there's truth to what you're saying, Xelnath's example shows that people on top (well, he wasn't even top depending how you look at it) can have significant influence. And the idea of WoD is an overarching concept. Kosak may have not been responsible for every single detail, but the shitstain that is WoD lore is on him.

almost 2017 people still be bitching about Thrall, he made Less than Tirion on LK but i didn't see anyone bitching about him rofl, Cataclysm Lore was pretty descent Without counting the end, the final was "meeh" and dragon soul shit

Let's see. Thrall: got the killing blow on Deathwing. Tirion: didn't get the killing blow on LK. Even the claim that he did the same as Tirion would be wrong, let alone that he did less. Not that Tirion's shenanigans were some kind of high point of lore, it's a shitty deus ex machina, quite literal one at that, but all he did was break out of an ice tomb and then break Frostmourne. Thrall on the other hand delivered the killing blow as has already been said, as well as much more than that:

Shattering - Thrall bonanza.

4.0 - introduction to Thrall - super duper Shaman extraordinaire.

Twilight of Aspects - introduction to World Shaman garbage, as well as Thrall substituting for the Earth Warder. Hell he was the main character of the book about fucking Aspects, where he is the one to teach them, including teaching Nozdormu what his goddamn charge is.

4.2 - Ragnaros approaches Thrall in the cinematic for no reason whatsoever when it's the Druids that have been his focus the entire 4.0. Then an entire questline dedicated to Thrall and how important he is. Culminating in everyone forgetting what they set out to do at the start of said questline to worship Thrall during his wedding with Aggra.

Charge of the Aspects - Thrall gets to lecture Deathing, because he still missed one Aspect after Twilight of Aspects. Other Aspects get so excited about how important and amazing Thrall is that if the story was any longer the natural progression of it would be a lengthy description of them cumming due to Thrall's glorious presence.

4.3 - Thrall's ascension into a fusion of Goku and Moses, where he's the Chosen One that can make Dragon Soul actually work against Deathwing. First he gets escorted to Wyrmrest so the Dragon Soul can be used against Deathwing. Deathwing, the one true master of the Dragon Soul, fully aware of its capabilities. Also aware of Thrall carrying it there and of the Aspects plan (to the point he predicted they'd use Focusing Iris for their purposes before Kalec even got the idea). But despite his knowledge Deathwing sends mooks at Thrall instead of obliterating him himself when Thrall can't do shit to him yet. Because of Thrall's plot armor.

Thanks to that Thrall get's to charge the Dragon Soul with his awesomeness then fires multiple blasts at Deathwing, which forced consequent Deathwing fights and his eventual demise. Then we get an "age of mortals" bullshit which not only is cliche but redundant for Warcraft, just so we can have a cinematic showing Aspects being depowered so that Thrall can look even more amazing in comparison, as well as Aspects being in even more awe of Thrall and his son Kal-el.

Compared to Tirion, who, other than the aforementioned bubbling out of ice block and breaking of a sword was involved in an idiotic tournament that made no sense and few questlines, most of which included him getting trashtalked and/or proven wrong by Darion and the Ebon Blade. Yeah, Tirion is so much worse than Cata Thrall.

Might have something to do with Aggra and her GOEL GOEL GOEEEEEL. If it hadn't been for that quest line I'd bet he wouldn't get so much flak.

Nah, Cata Thrall is a complete clusterfuck all on his own. Aggra is just a cherry on top of the shit cake.

[Arrashi]

They're the same size and shape. That doesn't make them the same object though. It also doesn't explain why the base disappeared. If they kept the base, there wouldn't be this issue.

Same reason why kilrogg grew second skull after drinking demon blood. Corruption changes things. I mean seriously its like watching lazy town and getting tricked by robbie rotten disguises. "I could never say that uncannily familiar looking pirate was robbie rotten all along !"

[Jester Joe]

Same reason why kilrogg grew second skull after drinking demon blood. Corruption changes things. I mean seriously its like watching lazy town and getting tricked by robbie rotten disguises. "I could never say that uncannily familiar looking pirate was robbie rotten all along !"

Come on, you know as well as I do we were all pretty much laughing at the 2nd skull, and knew there was absolutely no logic behind it.

Yes, corruption does change things, but it shouldn't make a key object into a generic looking crystal. It would be like if when Cenarius was corrupted he just became a deer, and they were like "No guys, really look, antlers! It's Cenarius."

[Deleted]

I. Want. Chris. Metzen. Back.

[Wildberry]

I have disliked WoW's storytelling since Cata. I'm glad to see shuffling around of talent and bringing in fresh talent.

But this shit? Calling him a retard and insulting his IQ? It makes you sound like a child. And it's rude. I'm pushing back on the whole "I get to be a fuckward because Internet". Grow the fuck up.

Really makes me think.

I imagine you most of all are glad he's out, seeing the way he's been handling orcs since Cataclysm.

Or wait, was that Trassk?

Trassk didn't like Garrosh ever. I was fine with Garrosh, even after "literally Hitler." Getting rid of him was horrible, though.

[Deleted]

Good riddance, that Orc hater.

[Requimortem]

With the mentality of wanting high pay without having the life achievements and accolades to justify it, I think we have already established who is the adorable one here.

"life achievements and accolades". Oh. You mean the thing that none of these so called "writers" have that are working on Blizzard's games (or most games for that matter)? I get that you're a pseudo-intellectual but you're starting to cross over to the "stupid" territory.

Infracted.

[ravenmoon]

Wait, wasn't Kosaak the one who made amazing stories for the forsaken in cata on the plus side... but made the night elves really crap too losing all their wonder? Although i must say having suramar and the nightborne really goes someway into restoring a sense of majesty and wonder to night elf kind, even though the circumstances are dire, the art is excpetional - if he's behind that, then he started making up for it in the end big time, cos story of the night elves suramar and their plight as nightborne is one of the most touching and powerful tales in wow to date, and for the first time paints the darker highborne kind in a light that both shows admirable qualities (Thalyssra & rebels) and the dspiecalbe ones (felsworn and loyalists) - that's the first night elf related/based story that hasn't stunk since WC3 - - so he can't be that bad.

[Trassk]

Good riddance. He fucked up the lore, losing all charm to it, and while I could hold other writers responsible for some of the screw ups, he was the guy in charge, the director almost, so he does get foremost blame for it.

Still, I don't hold out much hope anymore for good wow lore, its been run into the ground, and anyone coming on board with an idea of how to salvage it would need to have a bloody iron will to do so.

[Syegfryed]

Let's see. Thrall: got the killing blow on Deathwing. Tirion: didn't get the killing blow on LK. Even the claim that he did the same as Tirion would be wrong, let alone that he did less. Not that Tirion's shenanigans were some kind of high point of lore, it's a shitty deus ex machina, quite literal one at that, but all he did was break out of an ice tomb and then break Frostmourne. Thrall on the other hand delivered the killing blow as has already been said, as well as much more than that:

you overestimate as fuck here, he did those things, but there is not like is a big damn deal, on the raid he just shoot the dragon soul on DW, with the power of the aspects and the earth not even him, also nothing wrong showing him as the most poweful shaman, and of course ragnaros should talk to him, shamans actually commune with the elements

still Tirion in my view was far worse, he just turn ssj break the ice and broken the dammit frostourme, who is DW when you can break the sword of the Lich king?

he also turn into ssj too when purified the ashbringer and just hit arthas, while thrall, meeh

[Traveler Voltin]

I think alex is now in charge of lore but i am not sure

[Deleted]

"life achievements and accolades". Oh. You mean the thing that none of these so called "writers" have that are working on Blizzard's games (or most games for that matter)? I get that you're a pseudo-intellectual but you're starting to cross over to the "stupid" territory.

Employees don't achieve higher wage if they didn't at least show their employer something to justify that kind of pay. I work in the HR field for a very thriving business and we don't assign wages based on what we want to get out of employees; we do so based on what we expect to get out of them, which we usually base on factors that consist of (and not limited to) their achievements, or past experience, or provided accolades, or proof of creativity, or some or all of the aforementioned. The pay varies accordingly and is also affected by the amount of responsibility you are assigning the employee for. Now, whether or not that employee proved their worth to our business is an entirely different story, and something that comes to light later (in the case we are discussing, Kosak DID more harm than good in my opinion), but doesn't change the initial process of assigning wages. We, and any successful business, regardless of the capacity, would never base pay on a flimsy reason such as demanding a high pay to provide superb work.

And attempting to insult me achieves nothing. Not only you didn't even manage that, considering your opinion of me is worth as much as the dirt I brushed off my boots earlier this morning, but even if you succeeded, it doesn't anger me, it doesn't validate you, and it doesn't change the fact that you don't know how real life works.

[Zulkhan]

Unbelievable that I missed this gem. Well, not like I care either way. Kosak is little more than a mythical figure on which direct all the blame, much like Ghostcrawler was. He had his responsibilities indeed but he was far from being alone, yet he's the apparent responsible of all the evils in WoW's lore.

Which is also why him leaving changes pretty much nothing and I'm fairly sure that all the things I don't currently like about WoW's lore will remain there, Kosak or not Kosak.

[Varjo410]

I actually think now all the people leaving or being moved away from the WoW team after the return of Allen Adham is not a coincidence.