1. #5681
    Quote Originally Posted by Kornum View Post
    Before crying "the sky is falling", I would recommend waiting for some clarification on this. I can not imagine, that this nerf is just a blancket nerf to top tier druids(the ones with the helm). It's not like the helm made them god-mode. It merely made them competitive and therefor I think its a good omen of things to come. I might be hopelesly optimistic, but I'm assuming that this is made, to make the gap between the ones who have and the rest of us, smaller. So I'm expecting an overall buff to all Moonkins. I'm fucking hoping!
    Have you not seen what they've done to shadow priests and fire mages this patch? It's not looking good.
    Whaleshark /spits on your science.

  2. #5682
    Quote Originally Posted by Irefusetodie View Post
    Have you not seen what they've done to shadow priests and fire mages this patch? It's not looking good.
    Yes, I have. And thats my point excatly: they're tuning(nerfing) over-the-top-specs and legendaries. I see that as a good thing. And I expect them to be tuning(buffing) underperforming specs and legendaries too, to actually balance everything out.

  3. #5683
    Quote Originally Posted by MV Kaa View Post
    With blizzards thought process, they will just nerf ED because too many cried about how strong it is.
    I mean it is true that the legendary is quite strong. The difference between moonkins without it and with it is quite noticeable. However this merf makes it already difficult to fit a single Lunar Strike in between starsurges depending on your latency/haste values. Until that patch is closer to being released I have no idea what to go after stat wise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kornum View Post
    Yes, I have. And thats my point excatly: they're tuning(nerfing) over-the-top-specs and legendaries. I see that as a good thing. And I expect them to be tuning(buffing) underperforming specs and legendaries too, to actually balance everything out.
    Yeah I'm fine with it all really, I'm waiting to get the complete picture so we can know what to do. I'm not one to really get bent out of shape over nerfs/changes as out spec has had many highs and lows over the years.

  4. #5684
    Quote Originally Posted by Mewncriket View Post
    Everything something gets changed on the PTR I think I'm getting trolled even harder than before. Boomkin was only mostly irrelevant now it is completely irrelevant. This is a travesty. ED was literally the only thing keeping Boomkins relevant.

    Surely this is because they are planning on making some sort of change, right? A decrease in the Astral power cost of starsursge or something.
    ED being the only thing keeping Balance relevant is a problem with the item, not a good thing. It also means they couldn't just buff us without nerfing ED first.

    Besides, the most surprising part about the nerf is that it didn't happen earlier.

  5. #5685
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    ED being the only thing keeping Balance relevant is a problem with the item, not a good thing. It also means they couldn't just buff us without nerfing ED first.

    Besides, the most surprising part about the nerf is that it didn't happen earlier.
    Well with as many changes coming to specs and the changes to stats I'm giving it a wait and see approach. Not like they listen to much of our feedback when it comes to balance druids so getting too worried over it won't do much good.

  6. #5686
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    However this merf makes it already difficult to fit a single Lunar Strike in between starsurges depending on your latency/haste values.
    Maybe I misunderstood what you're saying here but you can't fit a single GCD between Starsurges with this ED nerf. You have to build 90+ AsP and then dump all of it. This is far from a slight nerf. Emerald Dreamcatcher is probably closer to where it should've been to begin with but it feels absolutely fucking awful to get lucky RNG in getting your BiS legendary only for Blizzard to retroactively neuter it to being the 3rd best, if that.

    I hope they buff Balance in some way but I won't be holding my breath for it.
    Whaleshark /spits on your science.

  7. #5687
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    Well with as many changes coming to specs and the changes to stats I'm giving it a wait and see approach. Not like they listen to much of our feedback when it comes to balance druids so getting too worried over it won't do much good.
    I mean, they did listen to our feedback... they listen to all the babies without ED saying how without ED they cant play boomkin.

  8. #5688
    Quote Originally Posted by Irefusetodie View Post
    Maybe I misunderstood what you're saying here but you can't fit a single GCD between Starsurges with this ED nerf. You have to build 90+ AsP and then dump all of it. This is far from a slight nerf. Emerald Dreamcatcher is probably closer to where it should've been to begin with but it feels absolutely fucking awful to get lucky RNG in getting your BiS legendary only for Blizzard to retroactively neuter it to being the 3rd best, if that.

    I hope they buff Balance in some way but I won't be holding my breath for it.
    How do you mean you won't be able to fit a spell in between? If you can do Starsurge/solar wrath/solar wrath/starsurge with 34% haste with the helm having a 3 second buff why couldn't you do a starsurge/solar wrath/starsurge or ss/lunar strike/ss with the helm having a 2 second window?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MV Kaa View Post
    I mean, they did listen to our feedback... they listen to all the babies without ED saying how without ED they cant play boomkin.
    Likely the same people screaming in rage about warriors with Ignore Pain I guess. Some things people just get angry about and what it nerfed no matter what other ramifications the nerf has. It is what it is, the helm is likely getting nerfed. I'd rather them just do something else with the legendary instead of trying to squeeze the window of mixing in spells.

  9. #5689
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    How do you mean you won't be able to fit a spell in between? If you can do Starsurge/solar wrath/solar wrath/starsurge with 34% haste with the helm having a 3 second buff why couldn't you do a starsurge/solar wrath/starsurge or ss/lunar strike/ss with the helm having a 2 second window?
    Because 1.5 seconds of those 2 seconds is eaten up by the GCD. You can't finish a cast, no matter what level of spell queuing you have, in .5 seconds and get off a Starsurge.

    Go on the PTR and try it yourself.

    Edit- Haste lowers the GCD; however, you can't lower the GCD enough to get a cast off inside the 2 second window. At 33% haste, 10399 rating, my GCD is 1.126 seconds according to this /run local _,d = GetSpellCooldown(61304); print(d)
    Last edited by Irefusetodie; 2016-12-06 at 03:50 AM.
    Whaleshark /spits on your science.

  10. #5690
    Quote Originally Posted by MV Kaa View Post
    I mean, they did listen to our feedback... they listen to all the babies without ED saying how without ED they cant play boomkin.
    ED is too strong, but I don't think disabling the playstyle of weaving spells between SS is the right move. That's what makes the helm fun imo.

  11. #5691
    Quote Originally Posted by Irefusetodie View Post
    Because 1.5 seconds of those 2 seconds is eaten up by the GCD. You can't finish a cast, no matter what level of spell queuing you have, in .5 seconds and get off a Starsurge.

    Go on the PTR and try it yourself.

    Edit- Haste lowers the GCD; however, you can't lower the GCD enough to get a cast off inside the 2 second window. At 33% haste, 10399 rating, my GCD is 1.126 seconds according to this /run local _,d = GetSpellCooldown(61304); print(d)
    Yeah I don't even know what I was thinking, I forgot all about the GCD on the first cast of starsurge. Ugh this really does make the rotation lose a lot of fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Killuha View Post
    ED is too strong, but I don't think disabling the playstyle of weaving spells between SS is the right move. That's what makes the helm fun imo.
    You said it, the fun is gone when this patch hits the helm. Yes I know the helm was really strong but the playstyle had some fun parts to it along with the strengths.

  12. #5692
    Just went on PTR, back, shoulders, and pants now have haste, which is kind of a wash now that we dont even need 30% haste anymore with the ED nerf :/

  13. #5693
    Quote Originally Posted by MV Kaa View Post
    Just went on PTR, back, shoulders, and pants now have haste, which is kind of a wash now that we dont even need 30% haste anymore with the ED nerf :/
    there is a large list of items that changed in nighthold stat wise.

  14. #5694
    Quote Originally Posted by MV Kaa View Post
    I mean, they did listen to our feedback... they listen to all the babies without ED saying how without ED they cant play boomkin.
    Anyone can play boomkin
    Trying to say those without a helm or ring will do competitive dps is just naive.

    The needed helm still offers you additional Ap throughout a fight.
    Wouldn't be surprised to see the ring needed soon as well.

    It is in no way good design to require this specific item to be considered for raid spots.

  15. #5695
    Quote Originally Posted by MV Kaa View Post
    Just went on PTR, back, shoulders, and pants now have haste, which is kind of a wash now that we dont even need 30% haste anymore with the ED nerf :/
    We will want haste. ED or not.

  16. #5696
    Quote Originally Posted by wing5wong View Post
    We will want haste. ED or not.
    Sure but I won't abandon better ilevel items to reach a haste cap now at least.

  17. #5697
    Quote Originally Posted by wing5wong View Post
    Anyone can play boomkin
    Trying to say those without a helm or ring will do competitive dps is just naive.

    The needed helm still offers you additional Ap throughout a fight.
    Wouldn't be surprised to see the ring needed soon as well.

    It is in no way good design to require this specific item to be considered for raid spots.
    I think everyone is in agreement that the helm was far too strong. But this wasn't the right way to nerf it. Halving the AsP reduction would've been fine since you'd actually burn AsP instead of being able to have 60-75% uptime on the buff.
    Whaleshark /spits on your science.

  18. #5698
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    Sure but I won't abandon better ilevel items to reach a haste cap now at least.
    Exactly. Now we wont have to worry about stupid haste caps since now it only seems like the rotation with ED is get max AP and shoot them all off at once

  19. #5699
    So with the ED nerf boomkins become utter pish again?
    IFE + what for 7.1.5?

  20. #5700
    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    So with the ED nerf boomkins become utter pish again?
    IFE + what for 7.1.5?
    Let's at least wait for the entire PTR stuff to be out before we gloom and doom it.

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