Is it worth it?

[Kithelle]

Same here. I've loved WoW for so long but something about Legion just feels so pointless unless you want to grind out Mythics and raid seriously. For a casual player like myself that's just looking to have some fun in a fantasy world I am finding Swtor so much more satisfying.



I know, damn them and their wanting to make money for providing a product

So...this huge company...all they can think of to make money is constantly screw over it's free or low income providers to make money? All that is going to do is drive potential customers away.

They are nothing but lazy and stupid...worry about lining their pockets while putting as little effort into it as the possible can...when their priority is making content they can sell over actual game content...then literally try to force people who don't pay or can't afford to pay into having to pay...well a huge dick move there.

I hope you have fun ToR Fanboi...because endless grinding is what ToR stole from WoW this expansion...have fun

[Nurvus]

I think SWTOR is a pretty cool as a single player game, but that's about it for me.

[Kithelle]

And I hope you have fun in WoW as well, where they don't charge you to be able to raid or play through the entire story and let you run all the current content for total free!

As for Galactic Command, I have no idea yet if I'll enjoy it or not. Most likely I'll just continue playing the game the way I have, doing whatever thing takes my fancy at any particular moment, except now I'll be getting CXP for it so it'll be slightly more rewarding. It's only a grind if you decide to grind it rather than enjoy it as a leisure activity.

First mistake you made is you assumed I'm subbed to WoW...second mistake you made is assuming I can't play for free if I wanted to...see...because I can...all I need to do is save up some gold and let some other person pay for my sub, and gosh darn it...I don't lose access to everything endgame if I use a WoW token to play!

[Radaney]

I literally only play this game to play the class stories, then I stop playing. Rinse repeat.

[quras]

SNIP...

As for Galactic Command, I have no idea yet if I'll enjoy it or not. Most likely I'll just continue playing the game the way I have, doing whatever thing takes my fancy at any particular moment, except now I'll be getting CXP for it so it'll be slightly more rewarding. It's only a grind if you decide to grind it rather than enjoy it as a leisure activity.

If you think it's not a grind because you took a leisurely stroll you are mistake. As an example off reddit and SWTOR:

1.23 million cxp will be 23,654.83 cxp weekly to reach level 300 in a year. In ONE char.

1168 warzones (weekly included) A WEEK (notice that group ranked weekly can spare you a couple warzones);
67 veteran chapters A WEEK;
78 master flashpoints A WEEK (will they be a thing? I like it!);
117 veteran uprisings A WEEK;

Thats playing solid each week for a minimum of a year straight. Forgetting that you have any alts you like to play and forgetting you might actually have something other to do than play SWTOR.

SWTOR just turned into a massive grind no matter how you pace yourself or how you look at it. Given all gear is now in the RNG slot machine as well as you only get a chance at said gear through galactic command ranks. You are now grinding extremely old content and only some new watered down flash points. It's a massive grind no matter your outlook.

It's some amazingly bad design going on over there at bw for a game barely strong enough to be F2P.

[theWocky]

So, if I sub, it unlocks EVERYTHING I need?

What are player populations like?
I know I could google this, but I'll be lazy and ask:

What are the bulk of the activities to do?

Small group content, massive PvP battlegrounds/PvE world events or 10 man+ co-ordinated raids?

ie. Is it casual group friendly or hardcore?

What's the patch routine/time-table like?

- - - Updated - - -

Thats playing solid each week for a minimum of a year straight. Forgetting that you have any alts you like to play and forgetting you might actually have something other to do than play SWTOR.

SWTOR just turned into a massive grind no matter how you pace yourself or how you look at it. Given all gear is now in the RNG slot machine as well as you only get a chance at said gear through galactic command ranks. You are now grinding extremely old content and only some new watered down flash points. It's a massive grind no matter your outlook.

It's some amazingly bad design going on over there at bw for a game barely strong enough to be F2P.

Oh, thank you. Is that all true? I'll pass then.

[WoWGoneBad]

I know, damn them and their wanting to make money for providing a product

I would give this post weight if EA/BW actually GAVE us something WORTH paying money for. Almost 2 years and all we got was 25 chapters of content with minor QoL features.

NO new Ops NO new FPs for KotFE a have ass WoW close of Trial of Champions( I did enjoy it when I first did it). That was supposed to be Single Player and was worh the 45 that I paid for. This expansion I will also say is worth 30. But.... I mean NO New FPs NO new OPS. TOTALLY buttscrewed the F2P playerbase with Paywall lock after 70.

But yea.... kudos to them for wanting to make money of a single 3 day disc worth of play.

- - - Updated - - -

If you think it's not a grind because you took a leisurely stroll you are mistake. As an example off reddit and SWTOR:

1.23 million cxp will be 23,654.83 cxp weekly to reach level 300 in a year. In ONE char.

1168 warzones (weekly included) A WEEK (notice that group ranked weekly can spare you a couple warzones);
67 veteran chapters A WEEK;
78 master flashpoints A WEEK (will they be a thing? I like it!);
117 veteran uprisings A WEEK;

Thats playing solid each week for a minimum of a year straight. Forgetting that you have any alts you like to play and forgetting you might actually have something other to do than play SWTOR.

SWTOR just turned into a massive grind no matter how you pace yourself or how you look at it. Given all gear is now in the RNG slot machine as well as you only get a chance at said gear through galactic command ranks. You are now grinding extremely old content and only some new watered down flash points. It's a massive grind no matter your outlook.

It's some amazingly bad design going on over there at bw for a game barely strong enough to be F2P.

Well they do have the CXP boosts on the CM that you can get for an additional 25% lol(so I have heard.) So the grind to 300 will only take 39 weeks not 52 lol

I do enjoy the F2P game myself but.... Yea, the Subs who run ops might as well say goodbye to 1/3rd of their raid rooster if the posts on the Official forums are an indication.

Something Else I am seeing is that the only Chapters you can set difficulty on are KotFE and KotFT..... I thought we would be able to do that with all story chapters.

[Edge-]

So, if I sub, it unlocks EVERYTHING I need?

For as long as it's maintained, yes. All content will be unlocked for you, same with the removal of the silly F2P restrictions.

What are player populations like?

Pretty low, but depends on your server. The game has been in desperate need of server mergers for a while now but BioWare haven't said shit about it, instead just running occasional server transfer sales and using that to generate revenue/bleed CC's out of the economy without actually addressing the issue.

What are the bulk of the activities to do?

In the current expansion, other than leveling alts, repeat either the story content from this/the last expansion, or continue running the same operations and flashpoints that have been around for years and years but are just bumped up to the new max level, as well as the new Uprisings which are similar to flashpoints. There's the usual reputation/daily/weekly grinds and all as well, but this expansion is putting a much bigger emphasis on people doing group content.

Mind you, the only way to progress your character in terms of gear at max level is via the Command system, a secondary progression system that works similar to AA's in a sense, but instead of getting additional perks/power it rewards RNG lockboxes that have a chance to drop useful gear for you. The numbers so far make it look extremely grindy, they're selling boosts to Command experience (despite promising not to), and the entire system is only available to subscribers. If you let your subscription lapse you will cease to earn Command experience, and consequently any chance at better gear (gear basically doesn't drop from max level bosses etc. anymore)

Small group content, massive PvP battlegrounds/PvE world events or 10 man+ co-ordinated raids?

Operations (raids) are definitely taking a big population hit now that preferred players can't raid any longer, and PvP has been a mess for quite a while. Think similar to PvP in Rift.

ie. Is it casual group friendly or hardcore?

Casual friendly, but this expansion is looking like an insane grind. And mind you, they're not releasing any additional story updates until the next expansion, so we can only assume that post-launch updates will be more group content.

What's the patch routine/time-table like?

Uh...they patch? They haven't announced what they're doing for KotET (current expansion) yet, as far as I know. Last expansion had monthly content updates, but they seem to be transitioning away from those again, so not sure what their new cadence or plans are.

[quras]

SNIP as it's already answered.....


Oh, thank you. Is that all true? I'll pass then.

That is true as of right now. Numbers were crunched as best as we could from the information at Dulfy's. Even if you liked the story nearly evertyhing at end game is the game except uprisings.

There just isn't enough NEW content to warrant such a constricting gearing system and the RNG it brings. The only new content being uprisings and their nothing more than a short 15-20 min watered down flash point and the only thing bw was able to create in them is how many adds can you handle with a mini-boss fight.

I think BW will have to greatly adjust the numbers. Once you get by the fast initial command rank levels, you need thousands of CXP to gain a CHANCE at gear. Mobs were giving 11 and 23 CXP. Finishing a heroics was 23CXP. 123 for a OPS boss on SM. bw create such a constrained gearing system that is so massivley different from what we have had for years that I think gamers will start to avoid this game.

Why? SWTOR gamers have been running the same content for a little over 2 years with nothing but one new PVP area and a mediocre Eternal Championship solo test yourself area. (aka proving grounds from wow in a sense but with no reason to actually do it). You could run any content and get crystals which you could by decent gear in the 216 or 220 range. Anyone could do that. You could run SM or HM OPs and plan out how you wanted to gear your raid team or you could PUG and hope for the best but still get crystals for gear. That process could take months and players got a choice in how they wanted to gear as well as the gear for a particular slot.

Now all of that is shot to hell. I ran an uprisings and 2 SM ops and made it to command rnak 10. I have nothing to show for it on my sage healer. I got 2 or 4 orange shell boots with not mods at all. I got 3 sniper rifles with not mods. I got 2 assault cannons wit no mods. I got some rep tokens I don't need and I disintegrated it all for a few extra CXP. (100 for the gear, 10 for the rep tokens). I kept companion influence items and the one cybertech schematic I got.

It's such a drastic change from where we were as I go do the same content I was doing for 2+ years and get nothing of value and likely wont see anything of value till I get to level 80 in command ranks and get to tier 2 gear. At this rate that should take me 3-4 months of constant grinding every day and that gets me just a CHANCE at something better. Not a token, not a specific piece of gear but a CHANCE. It's FUBER really.

bw and their piss poor design and development team has really turned swtor on it's ear and for the worse.

As of right now, if it wasn't for a few friends that hate to heal and want me to do it combined with just enough free cartel coins each month to outweigh my sub price, I'd toss the game and never look back.

So for now while I'm still playing, I'll just warn gamers and what bw has done and they can make an informed decision if they want to get into swtor or not.

[Katchii]

I'm going to sub just to get access to the end of the Fall Empire story and the entirety of the Eternal Throne expansion. $14.99 for a couple days worth of entertainment and a half decent story isn't bad. I will not be participating in the absolutely fucking retarded Command rank RNG gear grind in content I've already seen a thousand times.

Absolutely shameful, disappointing and tragic what they did to this game.

[Edge-]

yep, it;s going to be some horrible grind

http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...39#post9139539

It depends on how he hit it, but all the info still indicates a pretty painful grind. I'll wait to see what he says in that thread in terms of how he managed to cap it though, because i'm very curious.

[Witchblade77]

It depends on how he hit it, but all the info still indicates a pretty painful grind. I'll wait to see what he says in that thread in terms of how he managed to cap it though, because i'm very curious.

it was. he essentially farmed mobs over and over for days. thinking killing boars to level in South park. that is how he ground out that much CXP to hit weekly cap. and even if you do that (which is painful as it is) due to weekly cap, it would still take a few weeks just to get to rank 3 crates, and then its on to hoping that the right pieces drop from them...

[Katchii]

yep, it;s going to be some horrible grind

http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...39#post9139539

Don't really care how he hit it, it's still a grind. And the only way to get points, no matter how quickly they can be accumulated, is to slog through content I've already seen literally hundreds of times. All for a CHANCE to get gear that's useful from an RNG loot crate that could just as likely give me garbage.

The grind being easy (if that thread is to be believed) doesn't make it any less retarded.

[Edge-]

it was. he essentially farmed mobs over and over for days. thinking killing boars to level in South park. that is how he ground out that much CXP to hit weekly cap. and even if you do that (which is painful as it is) due to weekly cap, it would still take a few weeks just to get to rank 3 crates, and then its on to hoping that the right pieces drop from them...

I had an inkling it was something along those levels, as that's usually the method that folks use to powergrind through stuff (usually with the help of others).

I have no issues with it taking a bit to get to rank 3 crates, those are essentially the "true" endgame in terms of gearing, so I'd be surprised if BioWare intended for players to access them earlier than 2-3 months into the expansion at the soonest. The whole system is wonky in its design and implementation though : /

[Edge-]

People are already saying that farming Heroic areas, while boring I agreed, are some of the best ways.

Sure they are, that's usually the case when there's an option to painfully farm an endless number of abundantly respawning, largely trivial mobs. But that's not how most folks play nowadays, and it's absolutely not what BioWare intends in terms of players progressing through Command ranks.

It's still pretty piss-poor design either way, endless, repetitive mob farming was a crude design out of necessity decades ago and while it still has its place from time to time, is largely something that the industry should be continuing to move away from. Not saying BioWare designed with that goal in mind given the multitude of ways that you can earn CXP, but given that it's likely one of the "easiest", it's what some folks will think is now "required" : /

Although coming of age in Everquest where levels were acquired by grinding mobs in a specific area over long periods of time...this type of thing doesn't bother me.

Doesn't bother me, but it's not something I'm interested in. I just get a kick out of how this very behavior is so reviled in Asian MMO's but was, as you say, the foundation of EQ1 and still can be found in major Western MMO's today.

[Katchii]

So I don't get what it is you want. If it's hard you complain. If it's easy, you complain.....

People are already saying that farming Heroic areas, while boring I agreed, are some of the best ways.

Although coming of age in Everquest where levels were acquired by grinding mobs in a specific area over long periods of time...this type of thing doesn't bother me.

I don't WANT anything. I'm simply stating that the grind is ridiculous. It's a grind for the sake of being a grind. Grinding for levels in Everquest (I personally never played EQ, but the grind in early FFXI days for levels is equivalent, which I did) or grinding for specific drops from mobs (again happened everywhere in FFXI) to progress a quest, or story, or material to upgrade a weapon via crafting etc... those are all grinds that have a specific end point, it just takes a while to reach it, and there's no RNG involved once you actually achieve the goal (you're grinding to get X drop, obviously RNG is involved in getting the drop but once you get the drop you get the drop).

In the new SW:ToR the grind is unending and RNG is involved at every step, you grind for hours to get a CHANCE at a loot box that may have something you can use (not even a specific something, just something that's not useless) and you can grind for days, weeks, or even months and possibly get absolutely NOTHING that has any value to you.

I'm complaining because I flat out think it's a shitty system.....and that's even before it gets coupled with having to be slogged through by running content I'VE ALREADY RUN HUNDREDS OF TIMES, and I know I'm not the only one who is in that situation.

[Goshko]

Grinding for hours for a piece of gear I get. Grinding for hours for a chance of a drop ..

The CXP system is shit. I gave it a chance, I really did, but after 20+ boxes with a sum total or one upgrade (it was an earpiece, 0 set pieces in all) and 6 boxes in a row with earpieces all of which are a straight up downgrade I'm out. I kept my account active throughout the Kotfe dry spell, but I refuse to support a system this bad.

To answer the original question - it's worth paying for 1 month to finish the story once.

[WoWGoneBad]

People are already saying that farming Heroic areas, while boring I agreed, are some of the best ways.

I was thinking this same thing. you get 1 CP from Golds and 23 from the Champions in Heroics +the 20 CXP from completing the Heroic, so it should not be that hard. Hell I can usually do 4 planets in about 2hrs. I once did all the heroics in 4 days for all planets - Makeb(will NEVER do those)

It is a grind yes, but hell I am achive hunting for the lvl 50 companions and Alliance Base anyway and Heroics will be the best way to do so.

- - - Updated - - -

I was thinking this same thing. you get 1 CP from Golds and 23 from the Champions in Heroics +the 230 CXP from completing the Heroic, so it should not be that hard. Hell I can usually do 4 planets in about 2hrs. I once did all the heroics in 4 days for all planets - Makeb(will NEVER do those)

It is a grind yes, but hell I am achive hunting for the lvl 50 companions and Alliance Base anyway and Heroics will be the best way to do so

then if he is also doing FPs whil.e grinding....... well it aint that hard to hit the cap.

And if you are expecting endgame GOOD gear before GC90..... well that is your expectations letting you down. From Dulfys site

Tier 1: Command Rank 1-89. Rating 230
Tier 2: Command Rank 90 – 179. Rating 234/236
Tier 3: Command Rank 180-300. Rating 240/242.

I EXPECTED to get shitkrap gear for the first 89 lvls and "may" grind further. But for now, I have gotten my crew skills maxed and the 228 lvl purples so I dont need to depend on the crates. It is a BITCH to have to do it this way but as we all know VERY WELL this is a BW game and they suck at it.

Edit: Just completed the Section X Heroic area - the H4 and got a total of 622 CXP. Took about 1hr 30min so I can deff see the Weekly cap of 4k being hit within a few days.

[Goshko]

I was thinking this same thing. you get 1 CP from Golds and 23 from the Champions in Heroics +the 20 CXP from completing the Heroic, so it should not be that hard. Hell I can usually do 4 planets in about 2hrs. I once did all the heroics in 4 days for all planets - Makeb(will NEVER do those)

It is a grind yes, but hell I am achive hunting for the lvl 50 companions and Alliance Base anyway and Heroics will be the best way to do so.

then if he is also doing FPs whil.e grinding....... well it aint that hard to hit the cap.

And if you are expecting endgame GOOD gear before GC90..... well that is your expectations letting you down. From Dulfys site

Tier 1: Command Rank 1-89. Rating 230
Tier 2: Command Rank 90 – 179. Rating 234/236
Tier 3: Command Rank 180-300. Rating 240/242.

I EXPECTED to get shitkrap gear for the first 89 lvls and "may" grind further. But for now, I have gotten my crew skills maxed and the 228 lvl purples so I dont need to depend on the crates. It is a BITCH to have to do it this way but as we all know VERY WELL this is a BW game and they suck at it.

Edit: Just completed the Section X Heroic area - the H4 and got a total of 622 CXP. Took about 1hr 30min so I can deff see the Weekly cap of 4k being hit within a few days.

Planetary heroics are bar none the worst way to grind CXP after the elites nerf. For reference I got 720 CXP for a Voidstar I lost in under 5 minutes (had 8+ medals though so full CXP). That was without any boosts and no bonus - it was uprisings that day. Story mode Uprisings were worth ~400 with the bonus and can be finished in 10-15 minutes with a dedicated group.

Weekly cap was level 100 which is about 350k CXP. People believe that someone reaching it in 3 days was the reason for the removal of CXP from golds (yes I know they give one, considering you need 2500+ even at level 20 effectively means they give nothing)

[WoWGoneBad]

Well for those that do not like PvP( me included lol) it works out well. It is not the best but it gets me what I am looking to do.I think the reason for giving so much from PvP matches is that they are trying to get more people to do it and if you can get 2-4k CXP from a few PvP matches then yea most are going to do it even if they suck at it, dont care for it, or just REALLY like doing it.

I like doing the occasional PvP match from time to time but... it is rather meh to me. After 3 games of the same map I get bored faster than doing the same operation I completed hundreds of times. The Heroics is an alternative. Yes it takes longer but with my Belsavis Planetary daily, I got that 622 CXP. Then moved on to complete another 8 H2s and got another . One thing that I do when running the heroics is get the Bonuses done(20CXP) and then look for all the champs(23CXP) and then finish the H2. In total I get about 40-80 CXP(depending on the number of Champs).

There is the one mission on Belsavis where there are 4(optional) champs. That 10min of fighting is worth 92CXP. Again, not the "best" way to farm CXP but for those that do not like PvP(the "best" way so far) it is workable. I run the H2s just because I am farming the boxes to give to my Alliance peeps to get to Command 50.