1. #35821
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Molten Core and Onyxia and high end 50 dungeons. Endgame existed at release.
    No that is false.
    The raids were merely the end of the progression that got shipped with the box. It wasnt before patches came along and added to the level 60 content, and started to balance everything around it that the idea of "endgame" started to seep into WoW. And even then one could argue that there were still the progression around gear at 60.

    Dont take it from me either; Rob Pardo himself says as much:

    https://www.idlethumbs.net/designern...b-pardo-part-2
    A really underrated indepth look at the design behind vanilla, from arguably the single most influental person behind it. At around 37minutes in Rob Pardo acknowledges that there really wasnt any endgame at all in the shipped product.

  2. #35822
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unforgivenn View Post
    people saying that blizzard guaranteed license to server run the legacy client.
    ]is this true?
    I am pretty sure that if something like that ever happened, we'd see it on the front page of both the official World of Warcraft webpage, and MMO-Champion's front page. Since we don't... we can safely assume they're lying through their teeth.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  3. #35823
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    @woozie21 Pretty much described my stance on Legacy right there . I see garbage from both sides in this thread. People spouting nonsense on the Legacy side such as "I know the devs personally and they told me this" to "transmog is a factor that killed the game". HOWEVER. Anti Legacy people are just as bad coming in and crapping on people who want it. There are bad eggs on every side here.
    Will you stop with this already? I think that transmog is shit and there are a lot of people who feel this way. Who are you to say that is "nonsense"?

  4. #35824
    Quote Originally Posted by Raenor View Post
    Will you stop with this already? I think that transmog is shit and there are a lot of people who feel this way. Who are you to say that is "nonsense"?
    Ignore function or report me. You can think it's shit I never said you couldn't. But saying a customisation option is a factor that killed the game is total nonsense. Also try reading the entire statement. I used other examples of what one side had posted along with stating both sides in the argument when it comes to the desperation of arguments and insults are as bad as each other.
    Last edited by Eleccybubb; 2016-12-06 at 07:29 PM.

  5. #35825
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raenor View Post
    Will you stop with this already? I think that transmog is shit and there are a lot of people who feel this way. Who are you to say that is "nonsense"?
    You can think what you want, but that doesn't mean that the reasons you think what you think aren't exactly, well, praise-worthy, just because it's your opinion. And that goes for everyone. An opinion can be wrong. Being an 'opinion' doesn't make it immune to criticism, either.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  6. #35826
    Quote Originally Posted by Keeper Zanjin View Post
    How is legacy not a threat to retail? It would take resources away from retail to make legacy
    You are right, while they're at it they should cease all of their other games so there is no risk of thwm taking away resources from WoW to them.

  7. #35827
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurabolt View Post
    [...]
    No-one is talking about it as it against the thread's rules and any mention is deleted. I would suggest editing your post before a mod sees it.

  8. #35828
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurabolt View Post
    -snip-
    Because we are not allowed to?

  9. #35829
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurabolt View Post
    Surprised no one is talking about this announcement
    1) old news
    2) we aint allowed to


    Formerly known as Arafal

  10. #35830
    Herald of the Titans Aurabolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    No-one is talking about it as it against the thread's rules and any mention is deleted.
    I wasn't aware of that and it feels like a double standard given this site's early years.

    I don't care personally either way. I only play the Live game myself.
    ...Ok, time to change the ol' Sig ^_^

    This time I'll leave you the Links to 3 of my Wordpress Blogs: 1. Serene Adventure 2. Video Games 3. Anime Please subscribe if you like what you see. As a Bonus, I'll throw in my You Tube channel =D

  11. #35831
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witcher Arafal View Post
    1) old news
    2) we aint allowed to
    It's old news cause everyone can read this thread and find exactly the info based on this. It was allowed cause the server was shut down, but now it isn't cause it's going back up. Anyone can Google the info when and where. Feels like the early days of Adblock where in some forums just mentioning it was a ban offense. So many use it today that everyone turns a blind eye to it now. Are we going to repeat history?

  12. #35832
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    It's old news cause everyone can read this thread and find exactly the info based on this. It was allowed cause the server was shut down, but now it isn't cause it's going back up. Anyone can Google the info when and where. Feels like the early days of Adblock where in some forums just mentioning it was a ban offense. So many use it today that everyone turns a blind eye to it now. Are we going to repeat history?
    Adblock is legal though so bad comparison. Those servers will always be illegal hence why the discussion was only allowed here because the one in question was shut down.
    Last edited by Eleccybubb; 2016-12-06 at 09:51 PM.

  13. #35833
    Legendary! MasterHamster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    Why are there people against legacy servers?

    Is it because there are people for them?

    Are you just being obnoxious for no good reason apart from contradicting other people or do you have real concerns you want to share?

    I mean, it's not like the addition of legacy servers means the death of Legion or whatever expansion in the future. It just means there's legacy servers. The same way there are German servers

    I'm really curious.
    In the real world, Blizzard making legacy realms will have very noticeable consequences, and very high cost in manhours, that no one here wants to discuss, or just shrug off. But it's easy for people to sit in an echo chamber and just repeat that Blizzard are idiots for not creating them and rake in teh munehs, and that skeptics are just naysayers for funsies.

    I point out some of the things a complete layman should be able to come up with before jumping onto the Legacy bandwagon of how "easy" it'd be
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...7#post43382617
    Maybe it's hard to understand why "throwing up some legacy realms" isn't as "easy" for a AAA-company compared to a pirate emulation

    Other things is that players on official Legacy realms, now backed up by the developers, would eventually start demanding new content or patches. People in this thread seem adamant on refuting this, but they are lying to themselves. Once the "masses" arrive on the Legacy servers, so will the demands. The rage on bugs, unbalanced classes, broken useless specs, bosses despawning for no reason, and the other hundreds of bugs and flaws people in this thread willfully ignores. But people over here seem to think that Blizzard could, without repercussions, just throw up some Legacy servers, check in now and then that they're still running, but provide no real support for it.

    Official legacy realms will NEVER provide the experience people here want. If you want to relive a bit of nostalgia, play on a private realm, because while you can chuckle about these stupid ass bugs we raged at a decade ago, once Blizzard is at the steering wheel again you won't be as jolly about your pets despawning because they can't keep up with your mount, for example.

    I sincerely hope Blizzard never creates official Legacy realms. The damage to the games community would be unrepairable. Better leave the legacy enthusiasts to private garbage realms that disconnects or get lagspikes every 45 minutes (for the true classic experience) so they can at least have a niche community to share it with, and leave Blizzard working on Retail like they should be.
    Last edited by MasterHamster; 2016-12-07 at 03:18 PM.
    Active WoW player Jan 2006 - Aug 2020
    Occasional WoW Classic Andy since.
    Nothing lasts forever, as they say.
    But at least I can casually play Classic and remember when MMORPGs were good.

  14. #35834
    Honorary PvM "Mod" Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    I point out some of the things a complete layman should be able to come up with before jumping onto the Legacy bandwagon of how "easy" it'd be
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...7#post43382617
    Right? I've said some of the same before. The cost of weeding out bugs they've already fixed before while maintaining a specific patch and weaving in security fixes/exploit/hardware changes is expensive and time-consuming. I've had bugs that took me minutes to fix in our software and others, that seemed simple, take days. Multiply that by thousands and you can get a realistic idea of what it would actually take.

    People who keep saying Nostalrius did it super easy seem to forget that Blizzard is an AAA+ gaming company. They don't do it half-assed. If they commit, they're going to bring the full monty to the table.

  15. #35835
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Adblock is legal though so bad comparison. Those servers will always be illegal hence why the discussion was only allowed here because the one in question was shut down.
    Adblock at some point was considered illegal, though it obviously isn't. Much like emulators here are not allowed cause some moderators believe it to be illegal. I think it would be beneficial if this went to court. Like a fair trial between private servers and Blizzard because these servers do fall in a grey legal area. Given they had the funding, cause this sorta thing is going to cost serious money. I think it would benefit everyone if we can finally determine the legality of private servers.
    Last edited by Vash The Stampede; 2016-12-06 at 11:17 PM.

  16. #35836
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    You can think it's shit I never said you couldn't. But saying a customisation option is a factor that killed the game is total nonsense. Also try reading the entire statement. I used other examples of what one side had posted along with stating both sides in the argument when it comes to the desperation of arguments and insults are as bad as each other.
    Some factors killed interest in WoW's longevity more than others, but I'm not sure why XMog it's a recurring topic. For me, it helped diminish personal game immersion, but there are definitely worse things that happened. XMog is just a broken bone, where other QoL features were stab wounds.

    As said earlier, it would be nice if turning this "feature" off was an option. I would like to opt out. I applaud someone for spending their resources, but color me unimpressed. /sorry !

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Keeper Zanjin View Post
    They have to make money. How hard is that for you people to understand?
    I guess you can criticize me for nostalgia, but I remember a time when Blizzard was more about their reputation and less about money. Did Blizzard have money in mind when they attempted to topple EverQuest? Sure, nobody works for free, but it was an immense risk, with the possibility of no profit. Given how few servers WoW started with, their expectations were low. They were careful. Quality first - there were bugs, but they also had a large English-as-main-language customer support team to handle problems. My graphics card issue was handled within 5-mins.

    So WoW got them on the map, and currently they are spending resources to maximize profits, with profits well above what they spend to max-out these gains. It's not the same company that once took incredible risks, for the love of gaming, the love of gamers, and for the love of reputation.

    EA and Activision used to love reputation as well, to make everything better, to make their Brand as a marketing tool. Sadly, money corrupts, EA and Activision went down the shitter. Yet, people somehow get worried that a company isn't making enough money, which is alarming in itself. If Blizzard doesn't care for me as a valued customer (past/present/future), why should I continue to consider them an awesome company? Why should you? They are not putting WoW revenue back into the game - it goes into other projects.

    Blizzard merely enters the realm of big software conglomerates.

    Legacy is a risk definitely. One past management would have jumped on, if for nothing else, than to simply keep the brand Blizzard as a hot topic; a household Brand.
    Last edited by Vineri; 2016-12-07 at 12:14 AM.

  17. #35837
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Right? I've said some of the same before. The cost of weeding out bugs they've already fixed before while maintaining a specific patch and weaving in security fixes/exploit/hardware changes is expensive and time-consuming. I've had bugs that took me minutes to fix in our software and others, that seemed simple, take days. Multiply that by thousands and you can get a realistic idea of what it would actually take.

    People who keep saying Nostalrius did it super easy seem to forget that Blizzard is an AAA+ gaming company. They don't do it half-assed. If they commit, they're going to bring the full monty to the table.
    Very well said. I completely agree.

    Could you please close this thread finally? It has de-railed from the main topic anyway (with all the private server talk) and the arguments are repeating themselves. It almost feels like every 20 pages the discussion "resets" and begins all over again. Some people are for, some are against. We all get it. What else is there left to discuss that hasn't already been? This is literally never ending.
    Last edited by Kynario; 2016-12-07 at 12:35 AM.
    "There is no end to education. It is not that you read a book, pass an examination, and finish with education. The whole of life, from the moment you are born to the moment you die, is a process of learning." by Jiddu Krishnamurti, Philosopher and Educator

  18. #35838
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurabolt View Post
    Surprised no one is talking about this announcement
    Quote Originally Posted by Witcher Arafal View Post
    1) old news
    2) we aint allowed to
    The mainstream media is reporting. Articles relating primarily to Blizzard are OK, but the one in question was more of a 3rd party Legacy update, without important revelations with current Blizzard activity, such as recent interviews, or position stance. Fans are awaiting an official update, one I feel is forthcoming and would be very welcome.. IMO.

    Blizzard did promise an update post-BlizzCon .../tap ... /tap

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodraw View Post
    Very well said. I completely agree.

    Could you please close this thread finally? It has de-railed from the main topic anyway (with all the private server talk) and the arguments are repeating themselves. It almost feels like every 20 pages the discussion "resets" and begins all over again. Some people are for, some are against. We all get it. What else is there left to discuss that hasn't already been? This is literally never ending.
    Nobody forces you to read any of this thread's content.

  19. #35839
    Quote Originally Posted by Vineri View Post
    Nobody forces you to read any of this thread's content.
    True. I just don't understand where this discussion is heading. Some people want it, some people don't. But you're right... will just stop reading it and let it be. Thanks.
    "There is no end to education. It is not that you read a book, pass an examination, and finish with education. The whole of life, from the moment you are born to the moment you die, is a process of learning." by Jiddu Krishnamurti, Philosopher and Educator

  20. #35840
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vineri View Post
    Blizzard did promise an update post-BlizzCon .../tap ... /tap
    Pretty sure they didn't. As far as I know, all they said is that they wouldn't have any updates in time for Blizzcon.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

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