Trump Puts His Foot Down, Says No to Boeing!

[Gorgodeus]

They fly both when they fly one, fyi.

That has not been the case for some time. Sometimes they may fly at the same time, and sometimes they do not.

One example: President Obama flew to Los Angeles on a Thurs evening to appear on Jimmy Kimmel Live. He then flew to Phoenix the next morning to visit a veterans’ hospital, and flew back to DC Friday night. Meanwhile, Thursday morning Michelle Obama flew to Burbank, California.

When they take multiple aircraft nowadays, it is not both AF1 aircraft.

They take the following when needed:

Air Force transport plane or two (typically a C-17) for ground transport and logistics (Presidential Limos, Marine One, various Secret Service support vehicles)

Air Force fighter jets for protection en-route (1-4, depending on flight plan and destination(s))

Occasionally one additional plane for the press pool and other staff will follow the executive plane when it's a very large/complicated trip.

[jdbond592]

Logistically, how does a private citizen "force" the secret service to do things?

I said hoping. I didn't say Trump thinks through things. We are, again, talking about a guy who tried to take his son in law to security briefings. If he refuses to purchase new planes, SS needs to find an alternative. I doubt Trump will be inclined to fly AF1 if he fears for his life. Realistically, they will end up buying Boeing plane but it doesn't mean much for Trump.

[Deleted]

That has not been the case for some time. Sometimes they may fly at the same time, and sometimes they do not.

One example: President Obama flew to Los Angeles on a Thurs evening to appear on Jimmy Kimmel Live. He then flew to Phoenix the next morning to visit a veterans’ hospital, and flew back to DC Friday night. Meanwhile, Thursday morning Michelle Obama flew to Burbank, California.

Why are their wives allowed to use it for their own purposes?

[Tijuana]

I said hoping. I didn't say Trump thinks through things. We are, again, talking about a guy who tried to take his son in law to security briefings. If he refuses to purchase new planes, SS needs to find an alternative. I doubt Trump will be inclined to fly AF1 if he fears for his life. Realistically, they will end up buying Boeing plane but it doesn't mean much for Trump.

This plane has nothing to do with Trump. Even if elected again, it will not be delivered before he is gone. These planes are over 30 years old. This is not like the limo we replace pretty often. Said limo fits in AF1, incidentally. Pretty cool.

Also, you said force. It's right there in print for anyone to scroll up and see. I don't know why you would deny that.

[akris15]

Why are their wives allowed to use it for their own purposes?

If the first lady uses "Air Force One" and the president isn't aboard and its not for a state function its charged as a person expense which would be no different than a chartered flight.

[Tijuana]

If the first lady uses Air Force One and the president isn't aboard and its not for a state function its charged as a person expense which would be no different than a chartered flight.

This is pretty rare, I would guess. I would actually be amazed if this has ever even happened once. AF1 isn't just a coach, it's a bunker of sorts as well.

[akris15]

This is pretty rare, I would guess. I would actually be amazed if this has ever even happened once. AF1 isn't just a coach, it's a bunker of sorts as well.

Its extremely rare because the First Lady has her own personal craft (just like the VP).

Found it...https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS21835.pdf

[Gorgodeus]

Why are their wives allowed to use it for their own purposes?

First Ladies typically do not use the same planes that the President does. They use smaller military aircraft usually. Sometimes it is one of the "Baby Air Force Ones", which are Boeing 757s (Air Force C32), the same planes used by the Secretary of State, Defense Secretary, Congressional delegations, etc. For shorter trips they have even used modifed military Gulfstreams.

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Its extremely rare because the First Lady has her own personal craft (just like the VP).

The VP typically uses one of the same 2 planes the President uses. Its call sign is simply changed to Air Force Two while he is using it.

[Orlong]

That has not been the case for some time. Sometimes they may fly at the same time, and sometimes they do not.

One example: President Obama flew to Los Angeles on a Thurs evening to appear on Jimmy Kimmel Live. He then flew to Phoenix the next morning to visit a veterans’ hospital, and flew back to DC Friday night. Meanwhile, Thursday morning Michelle Obama flew to Burbank, California.

When they take multiple aircraft nowadays, it is not both AF1 aircraft.

They take the following when needed:

Air Force transport plane or two (typically a C-17) for ground transport and logistics (Presidential Limos, Marine One, various Secret Service support vehicles)

Air Force fighter jets for protection en-route (1-4, depending on flight plan and destination(s))

Occasionally one additional plane for the press pool and other staff will follow the executive plane when it's a very large/complicated trip.

Press should be paying for their own damn transportation. It shouldnt be on taxpayer money

[Annoying]

Oh no! Trump is trying to save the tax payer money by reining in out of control expenses.

Since Boeing is the only american manufacturer capable of building AF1, and it is doing so for the Government, it's literally impossible for them to inflate costs. Specially when the Government is notorious for overspending money.

Look, ever hear of the 10k dollar toilets the government gets? They're not really worth that, the contractor that's awarded the contract gets a 200 dollar toilet, and bills it as a 10k one, then that difference goes to their pockets and the pockets of their politician friends who awarded them the contract.

It's the same with airplanes and everything else. Since they are paying with our money, not their own, politicians don't give a shit if a contractor is price gouging.

Trump probably got some information on the actual cost of AF1, and figures it should cost us half of what they're charging, or perhaps a little more but definitely not the 4 billiong they want.

Yeah, that's not how it happens. All of the costs are quite significantly scrutinized. If I were making toilets for the government and I billed them $10k for one, I'd get audited faster than you can say "the government can't both have huge amounts of red tape AND turn a blind eye to things like this at the same time." This doesn't even touch on the fact that you have to bid for a contract. If your bid for a toilet says it's going to be $10k, someone else is going to demolish your bid with something much more reasonable. Even if you're only 1 of 2 companies that can make a toilet, nothing to that extent happens. If Boeing's $170m bid was equivalent to a $10k toilet, Airbus would have had an easy-ass time underbidding them.

Where people go wrong and think that the silly Independence Day quote is accurate is that they don't realize that we're talking about work from an engineer with a shitload of education that gets paid a good chunk of money. What do you think Boeing pays the engineers that are designing a crazily sophisticated, two-off run of a customized jet for the president and his staff? The average engineer at Boeing gets paid just shy of $90k. You think Boeing is going to put average experience engineers on a project with this kind of priority? No, they're going to put their best engineers on it. And best engineers are expensive.

Edit: Or as The West Wing puts it:

[Orlong]

If the first lady uses "Air Force One" and the president isn't aboard and its not for a state function its charged as a person expense which would be no different than a chartered flight.

Yeah and Im sure she is paying the 10s of millions of dollars it actually costs to fly it too

[Gorgodeus]

Press should be paying for their own damn transportation. It shouldnt be on taxpayer money

Part of the US gov'ts responsibility and one of its core principles is access to the President by the press.

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Yeah and Im sure she is paying the 10s of millions of dollars it actually costs to fly it too

Less hyperbole please. It does not cost that much when First Ladys fly. Even Michelle Obama's goodwill trip to Africa only cost $424,142 for use of the aircraft.

[Annoying]

Yeah and Im sure she is paying the 10s of millions of dollars it actually costs to fly it too

$200,000/hr give or take, and that's when the president is on board.

[LaserSharkDFB]

Part of the US gov'ts responsibility and one of its core principles is access to the President by the press.

Until now, anyway.

[PACOX]

Goddamn, you weren't kidding.


It more than recovered, but jeez. It's completely in character for him to have done this out of spite, but even if he didn't, there are better ways to get things done than publicly attacking a company for a previously-agreed contract. Prepare for (up to) four years of this, folks.



The thing is, Trump is a crazy person. With most politicians, a comment like that would have been phrased better, with context and alternate solutions and would be generally considered to be an overall statement of intent rather than a direct attack and threat against a major corporation.

Are you being funny? Hard to tell on the internet sometimes.

That graph is misleading, the stocks barely took a dent and then they closed higher, which was also an insignificant high.

[Gorgodeus]

$200,000/hr give or take, and that's when the president is on board.

The First Lady's Goodwill Mission to Africa that I referred to earlier only had an hourly cost $12,188, and that is inflated because that figure is an accounting figure that prices in a number of fixed costs from maintaining the Air Force fleet for this kind of plane over a year. For example, it includes estimated replacement parts, depreciation, repairs, and costs that would have been incurred regardless of this flight

[Klingers]

Yet Orange Hitler will still let the Secret Service piss away $400 million a year so his brat and trophy wife can stay in their NY Fortress of Trumpitude and not have to slum it at the White House.

[SilvaAger]

You should look up some of the features of those planes. They're like bunkers in the air.

[LaserSharkDFB]

Are you being funny? Hard to tell on the internet sometimes.

That graph is misleading, the stocks barely took a dent and then they closed higher, which was also an insignificant high.

If you'll notice, I did say it recovered. And while finance is not really my thing, it sounds like the value only recovered after Boeing and the White House both said 'no, ignore Trump, he's full of shit'. That 'barely a dent' clocks in at $1.39 billion; sure, sure, not a major thing for a big corporation, but if this had happened after the inauguration, it's less likely they would have rebounded as well. All because of Trump's stupid, stupid lie.

[Bullettime]

If you'll notice, I did say it recovered. And while finance is not really my thing, it sounds like the value only recovered after Boeing and the White House both said 'no, ignore Trump, he's full of shit'. That 'barely a dent' clocks in at $1.39 billion; sure, sure, not a major thing for a big corporation, but if this had happened after the inauguration, it's less likely they would have rebounded as well. All because of Trump's stupid, stupid lie.

Correct. It tanked and both the White House and Boeing had to scramble to get ahead of the mess and call bullshit, at which point it then recovered.

The speed of recovery though doesn't change the amount of damage actually done by Trump.