Varian - Melee Warrior/Assassin - Warcraft Hero

[Stormcall]

Show me where his post suggests picking a main Warrior. Bold it for me.

It was implied. He wasn't saying going Varian as warrior was wrong if there is no other warrior, he was saying if someone picks Varian only a moron team will assume the Varian player is going warrior and not pick a real warrior of their own, cause assuming the Varian player is going warrior instead of the much much better assassin Varian is a sign of total fucking stupidity.

[RH92]

It was implied. He wasn't saying going Varian as warrior was wrong if there is no other warrior, he was saying if someone picks Varian only a moron team will assume the Varian player is going warrior and not pick a real warrior of their own, cause assuming the Varian player is going warrior instead of the much much better assassin Varian is a sign of total fucking stupidity.

As I said.

His post had no correlation(?) with my post because I wasn't saying anything in contradiction with his point.

[Nikkaszal]

The problem with Prot Varian is that he is almost completely non-threatening. He can eat a lot of damage, sure, but he has basically no damage and no play-making ult. Unless you're in a group that can capitalise on the very short duration that you have someone stuck to you with Taunt, he's more of a trifling annoyance than anything else

If you don't take Warbringer at 4, you have almost nothing to bring to the table. If you do, you have zero other natural defence besides your HP pool against ability-heavy teams (outside of Banner Of Ironforge... but DPS Varian grabs that too).

Honestly if you find yourself in a team with no other Warrior... DPS Varian is still probably the best option. Prot is just not good enough to warrant spec'ing for it, so you may as well just go for Arms burst or Fury sustain and make up for the lack of tank by just eating all their squishies.

[Deleted]

I think they should enroll: Shield Wall(4) into Live by the sword(7) and put a new talent where Shield Wall was:

Intercept. Increases the range of Charge by 30% and allows it to be used on Allied heroes, giving them a charge of block upon arrival while also reducing the cooldown by x-seconds.

Orsomething like that. Reason why is simple, as a tank having a get out would make Varian much stronger.

if you dont feel you need the block charges or a get out you can still take Warbringer and be a more offensive tank. This bassically would make the lvl 4 talent row to be a choice between adding offensive or defensive capabilties to your Charge.

[Hell-Nicø]

How to fix his prot spec ?

Easy, Triple the range of the taunt and double its duration.

Bam, prot spec fixed.

[RH92]

How to fix his prot spec ?

Easy, Triple the range of the taunt and double its duration.

Bam, prot spec fixed.

Agree on range, disagree on duration.

It effectively is instant click-on stun, with that retarded Warbringer talent he alone could stun lock you to oblivion.

[Deleted]

No comments about my idea for his talents?

[RH92]

No comments about my idea for his talents?

They could still add Intercept as third level 4 talent without touching anything, but I don't think it needs to give Block (Or Spell Shield) since he has AoE Resistant buff at level 13. Maybe they could also swap Shield Wall with Live by the Sword so you could actually block skill-shots with Intercept+Shield Wall combo.

In my opinion he definitely shouldn't be really good at everything, good is enough because his niche should be that adaptability so you don't pick him because he is outperforming other Heroes at their niche while being way easier to play. With that being said, I don't think he is overpowered. Would it make him less viable Hero? Yes and I am fine with that because he should be alternative to other one-dimensional Heroes.

[melzas]

I dont agree that Varian is a bad tank. Obviously he is not the best one, but in my opinion he is a viable pick when etc/joh/mura re taken/banned. His biggest assest is how easy he is to play, making him a great pick for people who want to fill that tank role, but dont have much experience with it. His warbringer+taunt combo is easy to pull off, can't miss and is usually a death sentence for any squishy.

I also dont think his damage as a tank is bad, from the games where I played him as a tank(HL D1) I usually do more damage than the other team's tank, usually closer to melee assassins than healers.

As for his assassin builds, Fury is kind of underwhelming, never seen anyone doing great with it, I feel like he is just a weaker version of The Butcher. Arms build is scary and can open up great 'blow em up' combos.

[Deleted]

I dont agree that Varian is a bad tank. Obviously he is not the best one, but in my opinion he is a viable pick when etc/joh/mura re taken/banned. His biggest assest is how easy he is to play, making him a great pick for people who want to fill that tank role, but dont have much experience with it. His warbringer+taunt combo is easy to pull off, can't miss and is usually a death sentence for any squishy.

I also dont think his damage as a tank is bad, from the games where I played him as a tank(HL D1) I usually do more damage than the other team's tank, usually closer to melee assassins than healers.

As for his assassin builds, Fury is kind of underwhelming, never seen anyone doing great with it, I feel like he is just a weaker version of The Butcher. Arms build is scary and can open up great 'blow em up' combos.

Actually... the fury build is extremely strong. Stronger than Arms in my oppinion. While Arms is all about that burst and is great for teamfights, Fury is the selfsustaining assassin which can stay much longer in combat due to his selfsustain while also reducing the enemies received healing by 40%. When you have a team which consists of burst damage you can choose to add to the burst or the sustain damage, usually I choose the sustain damage in that case... also the abbility to own 1v1 and solo any boss in the game without trouble is just not to be underestimated...

[ttak82]

I dont agree that Varian is a bad tank. Obviously he is not the best one, but in my opinion he is a viable pick when etc/joh/mura re taken/banned. His biggest assest is how easy he is to play, making him a great pick for people who want to fill that tank role, but dont have much experience with it. His warbringer+taunt combo is easy to pull off, can't miss and is usually a death sentence for any squishy.

I also dont think his damage as a tank is bad, from the games where I played him as a tank(HL D1) I usually do more damage than the other team's tank, usually closer to melee assassins than healers.

As for his assassin builds, Fury is kind of underwhelming, never seen anyone doing great with it, I feel like he is just a weaker version of The Butcher. Arms build is scary and can open up great 'blow em up' combos.

This is similar to what a couple of pro players have said. Basically Taunt + Charge = 2.25 seconds of CC (if timed properly) which can be use to focus down targets. The Fury build is easy for beginners, but at high level, it is easier to counter.

L20 upgrade on Taunt (Vigilance) also counters high AS heroes like Tracer.

[Airlick]

People just massively overestimate Fury and underestimate Arms. The problem is that with players being as toxic as they are, you can't go Arms and count on them to forgive your shitty early game and when you die or don't do much pre-10, they will go "OMG ARMS VARIAN GO FURY NEXT TIME GG LOST", completely ignoring the fact that Arms is incredible for teamfights simply because of 3 seconds vulnerability it grants. Fury is just Sonya without an ult. Arms allows your team to blow up tanks, if noone else.

As for Prot... Well, I'm not sold on it myself.

[Stormcall]

People just massively overestimate Fury and underestimate Arms. The problem is that with players being as toxic as they are, you can't go Arms and count on them to forgive your shitty early game and when you die or don't do much pre-10, they will go "OMG ARMS VARIAN GO FURY NEXT TIME GG LOST", completely ignoring the fact that Arms is incredible for teamfights simply because of 3 seconds vulnerability it grants. Fury is just Sonya without an ult. Arms allows your team to blow up tanks, if noone else.

As for Prot... Well, I'm not sold on it myself.

The problem is, Arms is only incredible for team fights if your team is coordinated. In Quick Match, you can go arms, apply vulnerability, only to see the rest of your team attacking different targets. And once your ult is gone, your damage is kinda meh for the next 20 seconds.

[Nikkaszal]

The problem is, Arms is only incredible for team fights if your team is coordinated. In Quick Match, you can go arms, apply vulnerability, only to see the rest of your team attacking different targets. And once your ult is gone, your damage is kinda meh for the next 20 seconds.

Varian himself can delete squishies with his full combo and a fully stacked Lions Maw. Doesn't always need team follow-up

[Kjalar]

Varian himself can delete squishies with his full combo and a fully stacked Lions Maw. Doesn't always need team follow-up

What squishies are we talking about? From my experience, full combo doesn't kill stuff unless there's a level advantage.

[Nikkaszal]

What squishies are we talking about? From my experience, full combo doesn't kill stuff unless there's a level advantage.

Very few heroes kill outright with a full combo and no level advantage. Even Chromie.

But like these heroes, Varian can and will rip off 3/4 or more of an assassin's HP during one round of burst, then follows up with melee swings.

[Stormcall]

Varian himself can delete squishies with his full combo and a fully stacked Lions Maw. Doesn't always need team follow-up

Uhh, no, he really can't, unless we're talking like Murky/Abathur.

[Kjalar]

Very few heroes kill outright with a full combo and no level advantage. Even Chromie.

But like these heroes, Varian can and will rip off 3/4 or more of an assassin's HP during one round of burst, then follows up with melee swings.

Ok, I see your point.

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BTW, what do you guys think about his buffed Prot spec?

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And another question - what to you pick at lvl 1 when playing Prot? Seen Chu8 going for High King's Quest on his stream, but I'm not sold on this. IMO it doesn't make Prot Varian's DPS much scarier. What do you think?

[Nerraw]

BTW, what do you guys think about his buffed Prot spec?

I liked Taunt before. Wasn't viable in everything but it had uses. Now it's just better!

And another question - what to you pick at lvl 1 when playing Prot? Seen Chu8 going for High King's Quest on his stream, but I'm not sold on this. IMO it doesn't make Prot Varian's DPS much scarier. What do you think?

I usually go the Lion's Fang quest talent.

[Kjalar]

I usually go the Lion's Fang quest talent.

Yeah, that's what I'm leaning toward as well. IMO Prot Varian's strength is not in his AA and never will be, so there's no point in buffing AA. So Lion's Maw is the only viable pick at lvl 1.

And what about lvl 4?
As a tank, I'd really love to have that Shield Wall, but
1) I feel that without Warbringer Varian is friggin useless pre-10
2) 1 sec stun followed with 1.25 taunt is a godly setup for pickoffs
So I end up taking Warbringer anyway.