How bad are we in Mythic+ groups (ret)

[Deleted]

They're fine but no one will invite you if they can invite a higher itemlevel DPS which is why you're not getting the invites most likely.

[Matrlx]

When you make a group, you are usually waiting for a tank while there are 20 dps in the queue willing to join.
Is 865 enough to complete say +7? Yes, it is.
On the other hand there are players with 880+ wanting to get their AP and on average they will perform better, do more damage and increase your chances to finishing in time or getting an extra chest.

Why would you invite the lower geared player? In some rare cases you might go for 5 or 10 ilvl lower player if you believe her class is more useful for hero, strong aoe damage and aoe stuns or similar, but rarely will someone prefer a low geared ret paladin.

most of tanks wont consider applying for 2 reasons:
they already have their sidekick Healer (friend , guildy)
or they already applied to a boosting group and they boost YOUR key
and yes you would compete for +7 but u wouldn't in a 3 chest run if that's the case

[Mexxcalibur]

Ok so it seems that I should either make my own group,meet some friends or join a guild on my super dead server (malygos). if anyone needs a new cool, down to earth mature friend hit me up
on a side note, I do always have flasks,pots but not drums, ill get those this week and ill post it on my notes, thanks for that tip.and the reason my ilvl is not higher is I really dont get to raid cause of my work schedule, I do make every attempt to get better gear.

[Dalogar]

as a 870ret i find I'm about average in a M+, our AoE is reasonable. (i do have 2 relics for storm) but it does entirely depend on the dungeon. BRH for example is all undead/demon so our aOE is insane with wake! same for VoTw, yet some like DHT we suck on. single target is where we excel tbh

[Morally Grey Storm]

When you make a group, you are usually waiting for a tank while there are 20 dps in the queue willing to join.
Is 865 enough to complete say +7? Yes, it is.
On the other hand there are players with 880+ wanting to get their AP and on average they will perform better, do more damage and increase your chances to finishing in time or getting an extra chest.

Why would you invite the lower geared player? In some rare cases you might go for 5 or 10 ilvl lower player if you believe her class is more useful for hero, strong aoe damage and aoe stuns or similar, but rarely will someone prefer a low geared ret paladin.

how do I get gear if I don't get to be invited

[Azsune]

When I am in a mythic+ we don't invite the first dps that asks to join. We wait a bit and see what we can get. Normally can get a full group of 880 ilvl people if you wait a few minutes. Even in the lower mythics if it is a good key it is easy to find high ilvl people to come. If I see a 2 maw its hard not to jump on it. Being at the ilvl required to 1 chest it is not enough for most groups. They want to try and push for 3.

I actually like rets they have pretty strong single target and are also good at aoe. Had one in group last night pulling 300-400k in brh +9 single target on bosses. With 700-1.2mil on trash pulls. He was also 880 ilvl.

To get into groups when you are not over geared is hard. The only way I ever get into groups on my alt is if I make them or get friends/guildies to go. A good thing to do is also add people to your friends list from good runs. My friends list is just a list of people with a note saying good dps/tank.

[Wrecktangle]

how do I get gear if I don't get to be invited

This doesn't pertain to you specifically - given your simply responding to respond, but this is for anyone who reads it.

How do you get a credit card with no credit? It's the same conundrum and the same solution. You have to do something you don't want to.

You want a credit card? Open a secured card for like 2 months and then you'll have at least 10 offers coming in weekly for credit cards. Pick 1, open it and viola. You can close your secured one (or sit tight and ask them to convert it down the road so you keep the extra credit length (as it's an enormous portion of your credit score) and get your money back.

You want to get gear to join groups? Create your own. Set reasonable goals and invite people like yourself to them. I.e. If you think you're geared for +7, invite other people who join for +7s. Just keep in mind if you regularly pass over others like you for the "better" candidates that you now know why it happens to you!

Just the way the game goes.

[Mexxcalibur]

This doesn't pertain to you specifically - given your simply responding to respond, but this is for anyone who reads it.

How do you get a credit card with no credit? It's the same conundrum and the same solution. You have to do something you don't want to.

You want a credit card? Open a secured card for like 2 months and then you'll have at least 10 offers coming in weekly for credit cards. Pick 1, open it and viola. You can close your secured one (or sit tight and ask them to convert it down the road so you keep the extra credit length (as it's an enormous portion of your credit score) and get your money back.

You want to get gear to join groups? Create your own. Set reasonable goals and invite people like yourself to them. I.e. If you think you're geared for +7, invite other people who join for +7s. Just keep in mind if you regularly pass over others like you for the "better" candidates that you now know why it happens to you!

Just the way the game goes.

I will try this my friend,

[Morally Grey Storm]

This doesn't pertain to you specifically - given your simply responding to respond, but this is for anyone who reads it.

How do you get a credit card with no credit? It's the same conundrum and the same solution. You have to do something you don't want to.

You want a credit card? Open a secured card for like 2 months and then you'll have at least 10 offers coming in weekly for credit cards. Pick 1, open it and viola. You can close your secured one (or sit tight and ask them to convert it down the road so you keep the extra credit length (as it's an enormous portion of your credit score) and get your money back.

You want to get gear to join groups? Create your own. Set reasonable goals and invite people like yourself to them. I.e. If you think you're geared for +7, invite other people who join for +7s. Just keep in mind if you regularly pass over others like you for the "better" candidates that you now know why it happens to you!

Just the way the game goes.

A fine point.
But my question was about how do I get invited, not how do I create my own groups.

It's literally bollocks. This evening I wanted to do some +7 or higher M+ for a chest reward and all I've seen were insane groups demanding 880+ gear for +6-7 dungeons.

And noone cares to hear my explanations what is doable in what gear.
Feth, I have gear from M+7 or M+8 dungeons, which proves I've done them, but people will not listen or care.

[OrcsRLame]

A fine point.
But my question was about how do I get invited, not how I create my own groups.

It's literally bollocks. This evening I wanted to do some +7 or higher M+ for a chest reward and all I've seen were insane groups demanding 880+ gear for +6-7 dungeons.

And noone cares to hear my explanations what is doable in what gear.
Feth, I have gear from M+7 or M+8 dungeons, which proves I've done them, but people will not listen or care.

There is a reason for this, namely, that people are pants on head retarded.

I have really odd sleeping habits. Sometimes I wake up in the wee hours of the morning and decide that I want to do some mythic+ shit for a few hours. Naturally my guild is asleep at this time. I am 886 ilvl as prot and 885 as ret. I have 35 traits in prot, 36 in ret. I typically pug as a tank because it's easier to get groups and I'm a bit of a control freak. I always use a strength flask and I prepot prolonged power every time it comes up. On a 3 mob pull, I average around 500k dps with no cooldowns up. If I have CDs on a large pull, like the first Bladelord plus little guys in BRH, I can sustain about 2 million dps. While doing this much dps, I don't need external healing at all below a 7 unless there's some bullshit affixes like raging and I can even do a substantial amount of off healing with Hand of the Protector, Judgment of Light and the heal on blessings from Chain of Thrayn. Everything about my build is designed to hard carry groups in mythic+.

Despite that, when joining groups that have a low ilvl requirement, I have actually failed to 3 chest 5s and 6s. I pull fast, I never die, and I do way more damage than a tank should be doing in a 5 or 6. I fail to 3 chest these runs for numerous reasons. Sometimes the dps can't pull above 150k. Sometimes the other group members stand in so much shit they end up taking off 2+ minutes from the timer just in deaths. Sometimes the healer or a mage decides they're going to body pull everything in sight, just in time for me to not be able to prepot another prolonged power. Sometimes people are so bad at mechanics, they play each individual pull in the worst way possible. Usually, it's a combination of all this.

I have never failed to 3 chest a 5 or 6 when joining a group that has a minimum ilvl requirement of 870+. These people don't generally play any better than people with low ilvl, but the increased ilvl is such a huge buffer that they can be pants on head retarded, still do 400k on AoE pulls, and we clear the dungeon with a few minutes to spare on the 3 chest timer. You don't need to interrupt every Fel Frenzy in BRH when you can just AoE them down before they get off more than 2 casts. Doesn't matter if people let the Soul Torn Champions cast their Commanding Shout buff if everyone is doing 500k+ dps.

These fail low ilvl players ruin the game for people like you. They make tanks like me gun shy.

PS: No one knows how to do mechanics on trash, everyone sucks, brb killing myself.

[dnicks17]

I still get denied from my fair share at 888 ilvl.

Just keep grinding.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Ilvl is a buffer?
I would like to agree if not for my recent group for WV +8, where our Prot Paladin tank did have Ret aura and the bottom left talent whatsitsname picked, while having no chants or gems.
All went rather bad until we came to 2nd boss, the Inquisitor Whateverius, and we wiped.

And then I realised that 870 ilvl people did 200k or less dps on said boss.

And then I asked unto them: "Why oh thee wicked ones smiten thy enemies so feebly?"
And then I was bestowed with an answer from 870 ilvl people, and they said unto me: "It's the debuff, it increases cd and denies us our dps, oh thee righteous one!"

And then I knew that ilvl had nothing to do with anything actually.

[Wellendowed]

And then I knew that ilvl had nothing to do with anything actually.

A stupid assertion, of course. By your description, if your group didn't have that high an ilvl, instead of completing it slowly, you wouldn't be completing the dungeon at all (I assume you did?). The ilvl still provided a buffer for the retardedness; it just wasn't a big enough buffer in your particular case.

[Deleted]

Just make your own groups for M+, it'll help a lot!

Other than that, I think the general idea amoungst the plebs is that Retribution has improved quite a lot and is good to very good on all fronts if played properly. AoE is insane with all the Divine Storm traits active, and if you use your crusade on cooldown there's not an aweful lot of classes who can win in total damage from you.

Ret AoE being insane? Yeah, no. It is pretty average at best. All of you that say we are good at aoe, haven't played with good players who know what they are doing.

Not an aweful lot of classes who can win in total damage? Let me name a few that win by default (obviously assuming equal skill level);
- Fire mage
- Havoc dh
- WW monk
- Frost DK
- Ele sham (yes they are actually really good in mythic+, contrary to popular belief)

If you keep claiming that you are #1 in damage in most mythic+, you really need to start playing with better players.

[Morally Grey Storm]

A stupid assertion, of course. By your description, if your group didn't have that high an ilvl, instead of completing it slowly, you wouldn't be completing the dungeon at all (I assume you did?). The ilvl still provided a buffer for the retardedness; it just wasn't a big enough buffer in your particular case.

sure as sure it's stupid.

Then there are these swell guys from another server and guild with which I close EN(h) every holiday for the last few months.
There are almost always only 3 people above 300k dps, including me, and their friend-monk from yet another server.
And there are 2\3 sub-200k dps DD's on Xavius(h), despite ilvl and what not.

Sub-200k
on Xavius)h)

Surely ilvl is a buffer.

[Meiffert]

And noone cares to hear my explanations what is doable in what gear.

You are looking for a job and have two competing offers. Both positions are pretty much the exact same job, same benefits, similar location. The only difference is that one company offered you $30k per year and other offered you $50k.

Would you listen to an explanation of how $30k is enough to pay rent, bills and still have enough for food to not go hungry?

It's the same thing. What ilvl is required for the content is not relevant at all. What is relevant is what ilvl players you can get.

[Haawken]

I sometimes get declined to 4-9 key groups myself as a 890 destro lock. No joke. My solution in the end was to just always make my own group.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

A fine point.
But my question was about how do I get invited, not how do I create my own groups.

It's literally bollocks. This evening I wanted to do some +7 or higher M+ for a chest reward and all I've seen were insane groups demanding 880+ gear for +6-7 dungeons.

And noone cares to hear my explanations what is doable in what gear.
Feth, I have gear from M+7 or M+8 dungeons, which proves I've done them, but people will not listen or care.

They're not interested in what you think is doable, or even what you've done. They're interested in putting together the group most likely to help them progress their character with the least effort possible. They might manage it even if they settled for the 2nd or 3rd best players available for every slot the group, but why should they? If you are not the #1 strongest candidate applying for that spot on the team, what does it matter that you're probably good enough? Why settle for ok when you have options for even better?

Of course you make exceptions for friends and guild mates. That's why these threads always have people suggesting "Make friends!" "Join a guild!".

Of course you are not the only player in your predicament. That's why these threads always have people suggesting "Start your own group! Invite the other players who are struggling to find groups!"

^^Both of these strats work; I've used them myself. I pugged with 5 toons in WoD and early Legion; two of those were DPS. I know all about starting a group as DPS, filling those other two DPS slots right away, then having to wait 20 minutes for a tank or healer. Learning to sell your group, e.g., "Experienced team/Alt run". Back then I sent friend requests to every competent group leader, tank, and healer I met - once they knew me and knew I could be counted on, it was that much easier to group with them again. Since then I've joined an active guild. Now my game time is spent in Discord with friends forming pickup groups day and night. We laugh with each other, learn from each other, carry each others' alts, and rarely have to stress about pugs.

[Deleted]

Look, the only answer is: raid in a mythic guild, get great ilvl, get easier acess to pug groups. Can't? Then you're gonna have to be a bit more pro-active.

[Monzsterr]

So looking from the perspective of the super geared 890+ link your mythic kills, keystone conqueror, 35 artifact traits or gtfo, 1million dps or kicks for my +5.
Ok, I don't actually make groups like that, I'm pretty much guild only, but I'd pug into this, so lets look at this for a second.

One way of being more certain of finding better players is set your bar so high that only a really dedicated players who've been pushing mythics and raiding at a high level could possibly meet your standard.
I know that many skilled players exist who have a lower gear score, but there are also tons and tons of terrible players. So how do I as a the fellow forming the group best ensure my success other than to ask for proof of previous success? At this point anything 9+ and under is something I want to 3 chest, which means I'm unwilling to carry anyone on anything 7+ or higher because if we don't get that 3rd chest then it has cost me to have that lower geared/skilled person in my dungeon. I want those chests because I only have garbage legendaries and I desperately want to improve my standings. So I'm probably going to create a super high bar for pugs to jump over in order to get into my group. Or I'll simply look for another group with the same super high standards.


There is a solution for this. Just take away multi-chesting and there will be so little incentive for highly geared people to run lower level keystones that it will make it much easier for appropriately geared people to get into these dungeons because they will not be competing against the super geared. You'll still have super geared folks running for BIS trinkets and such (that's a whole different problem), but it will lower erase the need to super over gear the content to get those easy 3 chests and instead simply be about beating the normal timer, this will make it much easier for a person forming a group to happily accept a little lower gear score.