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  1. #41
    Did you really just assume Bastion's gender? smdh, people nowadays..

  2. #42
    Hmm, I did noticed that ana used a new voiceline for her ult, but I thought it was for her skins where she looks younger. I don't really hear a difference in words, but more in the tone she says it. Can someone explain this?

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosWolf View Post
    Sex is anatomical, gender is mental.



    Zenyatta is a robot, and has an identifying gender of "male", so why can't Bastion be female in the same manner?


    Besides, the voicelines make it canon, whether you like it or not.
    it's sexist to make a psychotic serial killer who can't control their emotions a 'female'

  4. #44
    Legendary! MonsieuRoberts's Avatar
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    Plenty of groups of people refer to machines as female.

    "She's flyin' b'y!" - Newfie reacting to a fast boat, for example.
    ⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥ "In short, people are idiots who don't really understand anything." ⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosWolf View Post
    Exactly what I said.

    Gender is an aspect of one's personality and psychological identity - it's mental. Sex is an aspect of one's biology and anatomical structure - it's physical.

    People arguing that Bastion can't be female because she lacks humanlike sexual parts are as absurd as if they were to suggest Zenyatta wasn't male because he had no robotic dick.

    Zenyatta is male, Bastion is female. They may not be physically, but they clearly are mentally. Not hard to puzzle out. Just because Bastion doesn't look like a Hajime Sorayama pinup, or even just Arcee from Transformers, doesn't mean she can't be a she.

    Strange how people are so easily able to accept a fictional entity identifying as male - for example, nobody questions that Optimus Prime is one - but if you say they're female, you are either thoroughly disbelieved or asked for huge amounts of proof if the entity doesn't strongly resemble a human woman...
    Except gender being separated from your biological sex was a theory pushed by a scientist in the 1960's. Nobody took him seriously and he tried to change a boy who lost his penis at birth into a woman. Resulting in the boys, and his twin brothers, suicide. He got off scotch free. Not to mention suicide rates among transsexuals are ridiculously high, compared to everyone else. I'm just saying that by using the word gender you are using the unproven terminology of a mad scientist.

  6. #46
    Legendary! MonsieuRoberts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    it's sexist to make a psychotic serial killer who can't control their emotions a 'female'
    Would you go just go home? If you're already home, go home twice.
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by MonsieuRoberts View Post
    Plenty of groups of people refer to machines as female.

    "She's flyin' b'y!" - Newfie reacting to a fast boat, for example.
    things made by men always get a female connotation after some point... it's basically a heteronormative quirk where a guy is clearly overly attached to something.

  8. #48
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    Ok is it just me or I don't see where is the proof to the claim of OP?
    Where is the proof you said it in the beginning?

  9. #49
    The Lightbringer Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosWolf View Post
    Zenyatta is a robot, and has an identifying gender of "male", so why can't Bastion be female in the same manner?
    Excuse me? Clearly Zenyatta identifies as a transgender omnipresent butterfly stuck in a metal shell who does not wish to confirm if they had an original gender or not. Take your hate speech elsewhere. /sarcasm

    They're both robots thus they lack gender. They may have vocal patterns used to communicate with people that are tuned towards sounding male or female pitch but they themselves lack gender.
    Last edited by Darknessvamp; 2016-12-07 at 10:17 AM.
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  10. #50
    Omnics such as Zenyatta clearly have a/identify with gender. You see it in the Widow-Short.
    There is a female human and either a hetero-sexual male Omnic or a lesbian female Omnic.

    So, its clear: Zenyatta (and the humanoid Omnics) identify as one or the other.

    With Bastion its a wildly other story. Bastion is first and foremost a war-machine, sentient but build for war.
    It is pretty possible it have just a basic AI not capable of identify as gender since it doesnt need much more than "Kill this" and "Dont kill that".

    Either way, i just play the game and wait for official lore like in comics or more shorts. Gimme Blizz!

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by DiegoBrando View Post
    Except gender being separated from your biological sex was a theory pushed by a scientist in the 1960's. Nobody took him seriously and he tried to change a boy who lost his penis at birth into a woman. Resulting in the boys, and his twin brothers, suicide. He got off scotch free. Not to mention suicide rates among transsexuals are ridiculously high, compared to everyone else. I'm just saying that by using the word gender you are using the unproven terminology of a mad scientist.
    The incident in question was begun by a quack doctor, John Money, who believed that gender was something society, not oneself, dictated, so he took a male, Bruce Reimer, and tried to forcibly raise them as a female. Due to knowing his gender was male regardless of his anatomy or the attempts to feminize his behavior, their mind rebelled and became traumatized. Later in life he attempted to undergo surgery to emulate the male anatomy he never had, changing his name to David in the process, but between the childhood trauma and the psychological impact of the flawed medical techniques of the era, it was too much and he killed himself. Bruce/David did have a twin, named Brian, who was raised normally as a male, but his suicide was due to a deliberate overdose of the medicine he was taking to alleviate symptoms of schizophrenia, and had nothing to do with his brother's sexual trauma.

    Before you use something as an example, try researching it. Instead of disproving it, the example you gave only reinforces the idea of gender being mental as opposed to being physical like sex. This also demonstrates how harmful it is to deny a person the truth of their own identity... which is where the matter of trans suicides come from, since the vast vast majority of them stem from depression and self-loathing brought about by rejection and even abuse from friends and family.

    Incidentally, the notion of gender being unrelated to sexual anatomy has been around for thousands of years, with such examples as "two-spirit" people in some Native American tribes and some people in ancient Greece and Rome having consorts and lovers who were physically male but behaved and were treated by others as if they were female.
    Last edited by ChaosWolf; 2016-12-07 at 12:09 PM.
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  12. #52
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Bastion sexually identifies as a tank

  13. #53
    Maybe stop feeding trolls with in some cases elaborate political and philosophical discussions?

  14. #54
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Its an it.
    Not a she, or he.
    Its an it.


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  15. #55
    Deleted
    So, could i say that arabic language treat female human as objects (reverse of what it's said here) and the base gender is for object and not female human? Would that be accurate?
    Last edited by mmocbc562de0cc; 2016-12-09 at 05:59 PM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosWolf View Post
    snip
    before reading this note this is a clinical study from first hand experience in the lgbt community. I know some of you will get angry with how i describe the problem, but as someone who has had their own identity issues I want to thank the community for giving me perspective with who I am (just a little weird thank god) and how others get to where they were.

    actually the real problem with gender and sex is that it is always discussed by people who have never lived outside their natural existence. What people describe as gender is a grab bag of traits associated with traits so really it only describes what you have between your legs. sexuality and gender are seperate components in the brain but they are also dependant on physical input. This is why trans people have such retarded lives because the physical input doesn't match up with the wiring inside the brain. Suicides are common because we are a pack animal and being rejected by society sends a signal to the human self destruct button (quick summary not getting into it).

    The truth is that it isn't a male/female thing but an alpha/beta thing. The female persona developes out of submissive role. That is why weaker willed males display female traits and will often try to subjicate females and other low tier males to constantly raise their pack status. The ones that don't try this and give up completely develope a female persona and often have trouble with gender identity. An advance case causes them to latch on to the female form as their ideal. This is of course only dealing with the "gender" issue not the whole thing. There is another defect where human brain identifies from birth with the female gender. This is more likely caused by a multitude of swapped mental modes which is immediately apparent at self awareness (age 6 or so). It's also where we hear of kids who knew they were born wrong and change before puberty.

    Puberty is the final leg of the tripod. This is where sexual attraction comes into play and you find out if you were wired correctly. Someone displaying no other cross contamination will end up just gay. Secondary traits develop from the odd dynamic between couples in this community as the dom/sub roles aren't straightforward. Furthermore being a pariah causes further deliniation. A dom may become more of a sub due to the overwhelmning pressure of pack politics or because they find a partner with much high willpower. Furthermore after the first few relationships people like what they know and will naturally fall back into the roles they had. This is of course a way more fickle thing as were talking random chance with relationship dynamics.

    In summary a person has three modes of gender identification: dominance, sexuality, and body chemistry. Of those three only one can be changed unless you consider HRT. Considering Bastion is a robot and naturally takes orders from everyone, it's natural that his identity swing female considering sexuality and body chemistry have no bearing on this lifeform.

    .... waits for the inevitable flaming

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DiegoBrando View Post
    Except gender being separated from your biological sex was a theory pushed by a scientist in the 1960's. Nobody took him seriously and he tried to change a boy who lost his penis at birth into a woman. Resulting in the boys, and his twin brothers, suicide. He got off scotch free. Not to mention suicide rates among transsexuals are ridiculously high, compared to everyone else. I'm just saying that by using the word gender you are using the unproven terminology of a mad scientist.
    the problem with a study like this is that scientist were trying to prove a mental phenomen through a physical one. The reason this experiement failed was because the boy wasn't female, he just didn't have the physical equipment to be a man. Our mentality is seperate from our bodies, but our bodies do affect it through hormones. For instance males with more body fat produce higher levels of female hormones. Thus they are more prone to female like outbursts. However this doesn't change their sexuality and being raised and rooted in a male identity doesn't change their perspective. In the end you would have to identify the mental modes in the brain from a young age to prove the dozens of theories on the topic. Something they can't even do now for adults let alone a developing/flexible network. Most previous studies are invalid/conjecture since there aren't enough controls in place for their experiments.

  17. #57
    Where's professor Oak when you need him, eh?

  18. #58
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    Bastion sexually identifies as a tank
    Bastion did give it a shot. But Bastion blew it.

  19. #59
    The Patient Romanesca's Avatar
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    For all saying that it's impossible since Bastion is a robot, how does one identify GLaDOS in Portal? I think majority would agree that GLaDOS is female because she has a female voice. Just because it can't reproduce doesn't mean it can't be programmed to identify as a male or female. (not like it matters anyway)

  20. #60
    The internet is the only place you can have an argument about the sex of a robot that is from a game and still have people be passionate about it hehe.

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