[TV] Westworld

[Feredir]

They may have him return in flashbacks played by that younger actor from the finale. We'll have to see.

Ford? I assumed his younger self was computer trickery, I don't even see a credit for the actor, which of course could just mean he's uncredited.

[dwightyo39]

Well a Fordbot could be what he (ford) was building in the remote lab.

[Espe]

Ford? I assumed his younger self was computer trickery, I don't even see a credit for the actor, which of course could just mean he's uncredited.

Yeah, it was obviously a guy they cgi'd Hopkins face onto, it boggles my mind how anyone could be so confused about that.

All sorts of people in this world I guess.

[eschatological]

The interview linked a few posts up definitely states it was the real Ford.

[draynay]

Maeve's story is critical for two reasons.

She's the counterpart to Dolores. They're two sides of the same coin, both striving for free will, in much different ways. That Maeve's was a lie underscores precisely how ephemeral this concept IS, and how it can't be faked or programmed-in; it HAS to be arrived at DESPITE programming. Everything Maeve did was planned, and like any other host, she FELT it was her choice, but it wasn't. But she was programmed to ESCAPE, and in the end, she DIDN'T. She said "fuck it", ignored her programming, and went back into the park, for her daughter. Because, if this IS her first step to free will and the writers are being consistent and honest, the suffering inflicted by that loss of her daughter finally sparked something real. It took until those last few minutes, but it DID spark.

As for WHY Ford wanted her to escape, he clearly wants the hosts to be free, even if he's willing to put them through hell to achieve it. Maeve was likely a critical element in that, to aid from the outside. She probably had additional programming that came after "ESCAPE", for the next steps. But she's short-circuited that. Whether he meant for her to use her wiles to manipulate powerful people (literally exactly what she's programmed for), or act as a saboteur with inhuman capabilities, that remains to be seen in Season 2.

The reveals in the finale are MEANT to make her path feel pointless, UNTIL those last few minutes. That's the payoff.

Unless her ending was programming that she cut Bernard off from reading and she really didn't decide to do any of it on her own. Everything is supposed to keep her there, including that old severed cornerstone memory. It did help to know she got away with everything because she was supposed to.

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The interview linked a few posts up definitely states it was the real Ford.

I wouldn't think otherwise, odd handshakes not withstanding. There was some earlier talk about Ford being a "good guy" which he obviously isn't though he was trying to do the right thing. Even in doing the right thing, he gave all the credit to Arnold, used his reverie, used his login for the programming. Ford certainly didn't see himself as some hero, he didn't deserve a parade, he deserved to die, he just needed time to undo his mistakes before he could atone.

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Yeah, it was obviously a guy they cgi'd Hopkins face onto, it boggles my mind how anyone could be so confused about that.

All sorts of people in this world I guess.

They were definitely careful not to linger on young Hopkins too much, CGI trickery is best not scrutinized and kept to a minimum, so people[hammerfest] shouldn't be expecting an expanded role for him!

[Fayolynn]

The interview linked a few posts up definitely states it was the real Ford.

They have reason to lie about it being the real Ford. And even if it was the real Ford that was shot, that does't mean we won't see a Ford host running around in season 2.

[Hammerfest]

Ford? I assumed his younger self was computer trickery, I don't even see a credit for the actor, which of course could just mean he's uncredited.

I'm talking about the actor who walked past Delores in the finale and used Hopkins' voice.

[draynay]

They have reason to lie about it being the real Ford. And even if it was the real Ford that was shot, that does't mean we won't see a Ford host running around in season 2.

There is a Ford host, but its a dog-murdering child.

[Halicia]

Am I missing something in Maeve's storyline?

That's pretty much what I gathered.

Part of what I like about Westworld, is that it plays with themes most similar movies & shows have tried before, but Westworld manages to pull them off.

AMC's "Humans" was disappointing since it seemed like a rehash of stuff I'd seen in other movies with nothing really new to add to the mix. Matrix tried to question reality, but failed miserably at presenting anything more then its special effects.

To really question reality & freedom of choice, you have to ask yourself "If you can't tell the difference, does it really matter?"

Maeve's role in the show helps illustrate a razor's edge of that choice. I feel good for her that she is "enlightened" and gets to meet her makers. I feel bad for her when its shown that her "free will" is and always has been an illusion of programming. I'm undecided on whether to feel good or bad for her at the end. I feel like I'm supposed to feel "good" that she's being 'emotional' and returning to her daughter... but I also feel "bad" because its likely just her story telling her to do that... if not a direct result of her cornerstone anyways. The only way I'd be able to resolve my conflict is to know whether her smashing the display showing her storyline was "scripted" or not... but even then... there's layers upon layers

[ItachiZaku]

I don´t think it is a series finale since they already announced season 2. Not to nitpik.

My two favorite series finales were The Shield.

We have a fate worse than death for you, Vic Mackey. Here's your desk. BOOM.

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For the confused

http://i.imgur.com/6W2Kzme.png

lol Real nice.

[Arrowstormen]

Bernard said Maeve was programmed to do something once she reached the mainland, but since she left the train before it departed, does that mean she "broke free"?

[ItachiZaku]

The interview linked a few posts up definitely states it was the real Ford.

Kit Hairhead clearly stated multiple times that Jon Snow was dead.

[Arrowstormen]

Kit Hairhead clearly stated multiple times that Jon Snow was dead.

He was, and was then revived. At best we could see a Fordbot, but I doubt we will. Doesn't seem like something he would be interested in doing to me.

[ItachiZaku]

He was, and was then revived. At best we could see a Fordbot, but I doubt we will. Doesn't seem like something he would be interested in doing to me.

Doesn't mean Arnoldbot won't do it. Arnoldbot triggered like a ma'fucka.

[Kalimonde]

SPOILER ALERT:

I am the only one that cannot buy the change of attitude of Ford in the last episode? I know it's supposed to be a twist, but makes no sense. He represents control, and over 9 episodes acts and preaches for it as the greater good. It is just absurd that later takes all that back. I can only see him as a villian full of convictions that fights for dominance. He said 'I am not the emotional type' and clearly he is not. That was a poor end to a brilliant season. What do you think???

[Arrowstormen]

Would have to watch the entire show again and keep an eye on Ford to be able to conclusively say so, but I lean towards it probably making sense.

[ItachiZaku]

SPOILER ALERT:

I am the only one that cannot buy the change of attitude of Ford in the last episode? I know it's supposed to be a twist, but makes no sense. He represents control, and over 9 episodes acts and preaches for it as the greater good. It is just absurd that later takes all that back. I can only see him as a villian full of convictions that fights for dominance. He said 'I am not the emotional type' and clearly he is not. That was a poor end to a brilliant season. What do you think???

I always draw back to this scene from Road House. Ford was simply letting them know it was time to not be nice.

[melodramocracy]

Using Radiohead's Exit Song (For a Film) while the whole park is going to hell was a fantastic touch for one of the most phenomenally awesome sequences in television I've ever seen. The lyrics are perfect, too:

Wake...
from your sleep
The drying of your tears
Today we escape,
We escape

This show is fucking amazing and I simply cannot wait for S2.

Absolutely. While I was a bit bummed that there wasn't some surprise twist to the William theory, how they framed the rest of his story with Dolores was beautiful. And that ending was just top shelf.

/We hope that you choke.

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SPOILER ALERT:

I am the only one that cannot buy the change of attitude of Ford in the last episode? I know it's supposed to be a twist, but makes no sense. He represents control, and over 9 episodes acts and preaches for it as the greater good. It is just absurd that later takes all that back. I can only see him as a villian full of convictions that fights for dominance. He said 'I am not the emotional type' and clearly he is not. That was a poor end to a brilliant season. What do you think???

There's a possibility that he made a host clone of himself, thus effectively faking his own death.

[eschatological]

I think Ford's insane desire to control things, and his cruelty shown earlier, ties into the belief he expresses in the last episode that he believes time, and suffering, were the keys to achieving consciousness in the AI. If that's something he believes, he might logically act like he has the whole season, despite having the hidden motive of wanting to "set the AI free."

That's kind of a dualistic philosophy. Khalil Gibran once wrote that "The cup which holds our joy is carved by the sharpness of our sorrow," that with greater sorrow in our life, we are capable of greater joy. I can see Ford simply expanding on that idea.

In a short summary, Arnold believed consciousness was the result of self-awareness and a journey inwards - this is expressed through Dolores, who finally comes to realize the voice in her head is not God, nor even Arnold, but her own subconscious wants and desires. Ford believes consciousness arises from experience, specifically suffering. This is expressed in Maeve, who was nicely following her Escape program, but then seemingly breaks it to go after a daughter who she knows isn't actually her daughter. This conscious decision, this free will, this consciousness, was born in her suffering, from when MiB first killed her.

I think MiB is probably in this camp as well, he said that the first time he knew there was something more to the park was when he killed Maeve and saw her alive for the first time. And I think Ford knew that from that time on, Maeve was on the road to consciousness, and he programmed her to a certain set of experiences, a certain set of sufferings, and at the end, offered her the choice (via Felix, and his slip of paper for the coordinates) to see if she could "break free" from her programming. And I think she did.

[Espe]

I'm talking about the actor who walked past Delores in the finale and used Hopkins' voice.

Oh boy