(Optional) Difficulty Settings in WoW?

[Mad_Murdock]

So the whole leveling process must be completely irrelevant in your opinion? Why have leveling at all in the game? What if I want to enjoy it at a normal pace, not having all quests greyed out, and being able to cast 5-6 spells in a combat?
How about new players? Do they have to one shot every monster and think this game is a joke? Miss the story since you're sent in another zone before finishing the current zone?

Yes it is, it's completely pointless in my opinion since the real action doesn't start until max level. Who said 1 shotting monsters is a joke to other people? I played Diablo3 and I mowed down trash mobs at level 1 like it was nothing, so what's the difference? How many truly new players are we pretending are coming to wow every day? Do those handful of new players really want to go through and spend 30 secs each killing those boars? Does everyone care deeply about the story? I won't pretend to speak for them, But I'm going to guess not many really care. I'm betting many are friends of players and just want to get into the action with their buddies as soon as possible

If a person really cares about the story, they can stay in the zone. As you know, They don't have to leave. When my wife levels a new toon, that is exactly what she does, because she wants to read the stories and doesn't care about levels or whether everything gives her XP.

For people like you that want the challenge and slow pace, best I can offer is to take the Ironman challenge and level to max in nothing but grays and whites, you can even sign up at http://wowchallenges.com/ and show people your dedication.

[Natylyaz]

The problem is levelling is redundant in this game unless they do a level squish. The thinking is now give new players a free max level character and move them into endgame where all of the detail is. Levelling to 110 if each level took as long as it used to would be the longest grind in this games history.

Also for most players levelling isn't a high priority content. It's something you largely experience once on your main then becomes a chore on alts.

I think most people agree it would be very tedious to have leveling take as long as in Vanilla to level 110.
We are talking about the difficulty of leveling, namely battling a monster.
And most of all, we are talking about making it optional for those who so wish, not to make it baseline.

[Shammyrock]

The topic is out levelling quest chains was raised no?

It could stand to be more difficult to be honest, but for me it's one of those nice to have that would rarely affect me. Rather see scaling added to old zones.

[Natylyaz]

Yes it is, it's completely pointless in my opinion since the real action doesn't start until max level. Who said 1 shotting monsters is a joke to other people? I played Diablo3 and I mowed down trash mobs at level 1 like it was nothing, so what's the difference? How many truly new players are we pretending are coming to wow every day? Do those handful of new players really want to go through and spend 30 secs each killing those boars? Does everyone care deeply about the story? I won't pretend to speak for them, But I'm going to guess not many really care. I'm betting many are friends of players and just want to get into the action with their buddies as soon as possible

If a person really cares about the story, they can stay in the zone. As you know, They don't have to leave. When my wife levels a new toon, that is exactly what she does, because she wants to read the stories and doesn't care about levels or whether everything gives her XP.

For people like you that want the challenge and slow pace, best I can offer is to take the Ironman challenge and level to max in nothing but grays and whites, you can even sign up at http://wowchallenges.com/ and show people your dedication.

I already have a dozen characters, I won't be levelling many others.
As I said in a post above, I am bringing a friend from Diablo 3 who plays max torrent difficulty. Diablo 3 revolves around killing dozen weak demons with your many AoE spells, WoW is targeted and usually against 1 or 2 monsters. WoW is boring if you one shot monsters.

Gimping yourself is not funny either, RPG is about progression, it's sweet to equip your first magic item, then your first rare item, and to unlock more spells. But if you do this, you overpower everything, not funny. A game is supposed to be about fun. The story has to flow with the gameplay, why does a new player or a leveling veteran cannot CHOOSE to do this?
We are talking about having the OPTION, you could still one shot monsters when zerg leveling.

[Moozart]

Hello forum,

So I've been levelling a character recently, first time in the new (Cataclysm) Azeroth actually. Last time I properly levelled an "alt" was in WoTLK, haha. I have zero heirlooms, too. Before I finished the mini quest-chains in Goldshire, I was already being sent to Westfall. The levelling is so fast I barely got to touch the quests in Westbrook Garrison/Eastvale Logging Camp in Elwynn Forest before I out-levelled the zone. Furthermore, remember when you had to go to Fargodeep Mine and had to pull each Kobold one by one and not pull like four at the same time and still be fine? Everything is just so damn easy. Anyway, I decided to head to Darkshore though at level 10. Pretty much half-way through the zone I had hit level 20 and was being sent to Ashenvale now, and the same story continued until I hit level 25 and decided to delete the character out of sheer boredom. You can't even peacefully finish the quests in a zone before you out-level it. (Of course, nobody is forcing you to leave that zone - but let's be realistic - if you're a level 25 questing in a level 20 zone it just doesn't feel optimal anymore)... Moreover, acquiring a new piece of gear doesn't make you feel stronger because you're already strong and killing everything fast to begin with. Hence equipment upgrades are pretty much obsolete at low levels too. I also tanked the Deadmines (as a Protection Warrior) and was shocked that two rogues, whose job is to be a DPS, could keep chain-pulling the dungeon and easily survive. Are tanks obsolete at lower levels now too?

I hate 1-2 shotting mobs personally, and that's coming from someone who had no heirlooms, no necklace or ring items yet, haha. Is it supposed to be this badly balanced? I had to clear out a cave to the north of Ashenvale and could easily pull like half of it and survive. Is the world not supposed to feel dangerous anymore? I see an elite mob 5 levels above me and I'm no longer scared and can easily solo him.

I guess I miss the fact that the game used to be way harder, that hitting max level was an achievement in itself. This isn't a problem with WoW not being good anymore. I think overall it's fantastic. But do players not seek challenges anymore? Is it satisfying to have everything so easy? Will they ever make it harder again?

If not, why not add optional difficulty settings like in most RPG games i.e. like Skyrim? Have current WoW be set to normal and allow players to change it "Hard" if they want a challenge - i.e. not killing mobs in 1-2 levels, having to strategically pull mob packs etc.
Should players not be given options like this?

Btw, I'm a soon-to-be dental surgeon... Hence I'm relatively short on time. Still, I prefer my games to be "time-consuming" and difficult. Despite not having a lot of time, I still love challenges and working towards something over the course of several weeks/months. Do you not feel the same way?

So my intentions are clear, I don't want to start a "flame" thread. Obviously we all deeply care about the game since we spend our time on these forums, so process your thoughts properly before you post something nasty, haha. No hate.

Just level as far as you can with only starter gear and see how that works out for you.

[Banard]

Leveling itself is obsolete.

To make the game engaging to new players and even for playing alts the legion tech of "world level as you do" needs to happen with all of wow.

I for one would enjoy this with a revamp of all Azeroth (including northrend & pandria) that would be my ideal xpac.

The whole world, every zone...being end game content. That would be amazing.

[Morbownz]

I put SW:P and proceeded by spamming Smite and Shield with Renew on myself, else I would end up dead. Also had to eat and drink after every 2 or 3 mobs killed.

That's what Wands were for. Dot, Wand, Renew, Wand. Wand did decent damage and couldn't be interrupted (like spells) which in some cases made it better than trying to cast smite.

You should have learned to play before posting in this thread.

[Deztru]

Having the whole world scale to your level (up to a reasonable cap, 60 for vanilla 70 for tbc etc.) would be awesome and having additional options for more/less challenge wouldn't atleast hurt the game. Blizzard really could add more to the game and perhaps master a completely new way of gameplay with a few big improvements for leveling.

- - - Updated - - -

That's what Wands were for. Dot, Wand, Renew, Wand. Wand did decent damage and couldn't be interrupted (like spells) which in some cases made it better than trying to cast smite.

You should have learned to play before posting in this thread.

Also you went out of mana really easily, so wanding most of your damage instead of spamming was extremely beneficial. Remember getting the mana regen while casting talents and not having to buy mostly water anymore? Good times.

[bigbleach]

I remember leveling my priest prior to TBC.

I put SW:P and proceeded by spamming Smite and Shield with Renew on myself, else I would end up dead. Also had to eat and drink after every 2 or 3 mobs killed.

I finally laid my dear little dwarf to rest after reaching kobold mines in Loch Modan. I would always nearly kill one kobold, but as my damage wasn't enough, they would always "run away in fear" and aggro another enemy. I killed the first one, but the other one would run away again and I would soon get out of mana. That meant either running away, or dying.

Running away was fine in the first part of the quest, but the second part meant heading deeper into the mines, and by the time I reached that place, the enemies at the entrance have already respawned, meaning I would only aggro more and die even faster.

I think everyone should be required to level a toon on some "legacy server" and then be finally allowed to post such thread.

Truth. While I don't love 2 shotting mobs and it being just faceroll... I really... really do not want it to go back to how it was in vanilla. I enjoyed it, I was so proud of myself when I actually hit 60 ( roughly 3 months after starting ) in LBRS. I think the reason it took me so long was because I pvp'd a lot and the fact i was about 15 or 16.

Anyways, I do think they should bring it up a bit.. Or maybe add something like the scaling zones with a slight change. Say the barrens start at lvl10 and end 17 or 18, allow it to scale to 25 but only make it scale once you have hit the min threshold. If they added this, it would allow you to finish zones and see the arcs. Also, it would allow you to only have to both with maybe 5 zones for vanilla and say the next time you leveled a character you could choose a different set of 5 and allow it to be varied by a bit. Idk, Its the morning. I'm tired.

[Mad_Murdock]

Gimping yourself is not funny either, RPG is about progression

Ironman is a challenge, people in RPGs like challenges. You progress by leveling in the hardest manner possible. It always stikes me as odd that people cry for challenging content, but then scoff at any notion of limiting themselves. What's the difference between you getting 5 items that are all nice upgrades but Blizzard makes the next set of mobs require twice the power you just got? You still progress in Ironman, you upgrade that level 1 gray axe with a level 10 gray axe, You might get lucky and find a really nice white item. But, no one wants that level of Progression because it's not as fun as getting showered in Blues and purples. But you do want Blizzard to make the mobs have more health and hit harder to compensate for the upgrades you just got.

But for the record, I fully support Blizzard adding an option to make leveling harder\slower for those that want it. I predict that's not going to happen anytime soon, so I'm tossing out ways to get the same effect

[Natylyaz]

Ironman is a challenge, people in RPGs like challenges. You progress by leveling in the hardest manner possible. It always stikes me as odd that people cry for challenging content, but then scoff at any notion of limiting themselves. What's the difference between you getting 5 items that are all nice upgrades but Blizzard makes the next set of mobs require twice the power you just got? You still progress in Ironman, you upgrade that level 1 gray axe with a level 10 gray axe, You might get lucky and find a really nice white item. But, no one wants that level of Progression because it's not as fun as getting showered in Blues and purples. But you do want Blizzard to make the mobs have more health and hit harder to compensate for the upgrades you just got.

But for the record, I fully support Blizzard adding an option to make leveling harder\slower for those that want it. I predict that's not going to happen anytime soon, so I'm tossing out ways to get the same effect

I'm glad you're in favour of choices and not a braindead troll.
Regarding the beginning of your post, I think you exaggerate a bit. I don't want to be showered in blue and purple, there is a big gap between this and the intentional gimping by carefully selecting a new grey item.

But you do want Blizzard to make the mobs have more health and hit harder to compensate for the upgrades you just got.

This is exactly what a RPG is about, you get progressively stronger and gain more abilities, so do the monsters to a certain extent.

What I would do for a WoW like game:
- Start with some grey items
- Receive grey items up to level 10
- Receive white items afterwards
- Magic items for key quests
- Rare items for dungeon end bosses
- Purple items for higher content

Which would be much more immersive than the current zerg fest with all blue items at level 30, or than gimping myself with stupid grey items which I have to choose to stay underpowered.
Not really a purple shower in my opinion.

[Kynario]

Why is it that "the true action begins ONLY at max. level"? Why have levelling at all then? Why this shift to only end-game content being important? This is purely subjective, but the game sort-of ends for me at max. level. I get bored so fast - not to mention the fact that epics get thrown at you and gearing itself takes little to no time.

Thus - what about early and mid-game? Can people like me who enjoy levelling more so than end-game content not enjoy the game anymore? As I said, I'm not an altoholic, last time I levelled an alt was in WoTLK. Still, I love levelling itself i.e. slowly progressing/questing through each zone in the world, running dungeons, and slowly becoming stronger over the course of several weeks/months. I don't need rewards to be thrown at me - I want to earn them with dedication and hard work. I'm just really unhappy about its current form. Also, I'm not saying other players should be forced to level slowly or anything like that. What I'm saying is that the OPTION to experience the game on a harder difficulty (excluding dungeon/raid content obviously) should be there for players like me.

All I get from this is that players like me who want more challenging content, meaningfulness returned to levelling and care less about end-game content aren't cared for anymore.

[Natylyaz]

Why is it that "the true action begins at max. level"? Why this shift to only end-game content being important? This is purely subjective, but the game sort-of ends for me at max. level. I get bored so fast - not to mention the fact that epics get thrown at you and gearing itself takes little to no time.

Thus - what about early and mid-game? Can people like me who enjoy levelling more so than end-game content not enjoy the game anymore? As I said, I'm not an altoholic, last time I levelled an alt was in WoTLK. Still, I love levelling itself i.e. slowly progressing/questing through each zone in the world, running dungeons, and slowly becoming stronger over the course of several weeks/months. I don't need rewards to be thrown at me - I want to earn them with dedication and hard work. I'm just really unhappy about its current form.

All I get from this is that players like me who want more challenging content, meaningfulness returned to levelling and care less about end-game content aren't cared for anymore.

You hit the nail right on the head, you're a demographics the designers don't care about any more.
There is a huge world, slowly built after decades of expansions, and it's being largely ignored (except for the very few tiny moments during artifacts quests).
Many more players only care about end-game, as you can see in this thread, and the designers of WoW care about the majority, as it's enough to keep the game afloat.

It's not necessarily a malevolent move on the designers' end, they simply never plan ahead, it's so obvious.
Everything they do, they never imagine how it could scale with level or be played in two expansions (e.g. story locked behind one month of dailies in Pandaria, completely insane to have it in-game today, any story involving raids, any story involving completing several zones).
So they eventually tune everything down so that it can be done in hours while watching TV, and focus on max-level on the current expansion.

[Kynario]

You hit the nail right on the head, you're a demographics the designers don't care about any more.
There is a huge world, slowly built after decades of expansions, and it's being largely ignored (except for the very few tiny moments during artifacts quests).
Many more players only care about end-game, as you can see in this thread, and the designers of WoW care about the majority, as it's enough to keep the game afloat.

It's not necessarily a malevolent move on the designers' end, they simply never plan ahead, it's so obvious.
Everything they do, they never imagine how it could scale with level or be played in two expansions (e.g. story locked behind one month of dailies in Pandaria, completely insane to have it in-game today, any story involving raids, any story involving completing several zones).
So they eventually tune everything down so that it can be done in hours while watching TV, and focus on max-level on the current expansion.

That's what I was wondering. You're absolutely right. Great perspective on the matter. I guess I'm the odd one out ...

[RobertMugabe]

That is the consequence of having a game which expands forever with expansions.

Leveling will slow down though. Everyone is talking about the 1-20 zones mostly (basically before u can just spam dungeon finder), but after that or especially in Outland and Northrend it starts to be slow and pretty repetitive (if you spam dungeons)

- - - Updated - - -

Why is it that "the true action begins ONLY at max. level"? Why have levelling at all then? Why this shift to only end-game content being important? This is purely subjective, but the game sort-of ends for me at max. level. I get bored so fast - not to mention the fact that epics get thrown at you and gearing itself takes little to no time.

Thus - what about early and mid-game? Can people like me who enjoy levelling more so than end-game content not enjoy the game anymore? As I said, I'm not an altoholic, last time I levelled an alt was in WoTLK. Still, I love levelling itself i.e. slowly progressing/questing through each zone in the world, running dungeons, and slowly becoming stronger over the course of several weeks/months. I don't need rewards to be thrown at me - I want to earn them with dedication and hard work. I'm just really unhappy about its current form. Also, I'm not saying other players should be forced to level slowly or anything like that. What I'm saying is that the OPTION to experience the game on a harder difficulty (excluding dungeon/raid content obviously) should be there for players like me.

All I get from this is that players like me who want more challenging content, meaningfulness returned to levelling and care less about end-game content aren't cared for anymore.

Wow has been mainly about endgame since TBC, but especially since Wotlk. That's they way how it is. It's been a broken system for a long time.

I personally like leveling, but I am in the minority.

[Kolvarg]

If not, why not add optional difficulty settings like in most RPG games i.e. like Skyrim?

I really like the idea, talked about it in the past, but perhaps better than a player-based difficulty setting (that essentially puts you at a disadvantage compared to everyone else) they could look into hard-mode realms?

For instance, instead of a setting you can turn on or off, or even a character creation setting (hard-mode character) that you can't change after creating the character, maybe they could simply introduce hard-mode realms? Basicly the same idea, but instead of any character in any realm being able to enter hard-mode independently of the rest of the world, a few realms where everyone is playing the same higher difficulty world content.

That way everyone would be on the same footing and be allowed to do multiplayer content.

I mean, if it's not realm based, how does it work when you join a party with someone who isn't in hard mode? How does it work when you queue for a dungeon?


Maybe the idea is a bit too close to the idea of pristine realms, but personally it's something I'd like to see, at least for the leveling, defenitely.

[pmkaboo]

snip

- everything besides current content is garbage in wow and its one of my main complaints about the game
- yes tanks and healers are useless in ragefire chasm and deadmines, and after that if you got some hybrid dps the healer continues to be useless until somewhere around dire maul
- no challenge is not satisfying to any gamer, but thats not the audience wow is trying to interest
- the difficulties in skyrim are so terrible, that not having any is actually better
- long term goals and farming are, or should be, a natural part of an mmo, but again, those dont work for the audience wow is aimed at

[Ornerybear]

if you want more of a vanilla challenge at least, you can try some features of the ironman challenge, such as only using white or grey gear. Cant fix xp gains unless you freeze leveling when you hit the cap of the zone and finish questing.

[Natylyaz]

if you want more of a vanilla challenge at least, you can try some features of the ironman challenge, such as only using white or grey gear. Cant fix xp gains unless you freeze leveling when you hit the cap of the zone and finish questing.

There is a huge difference between the current leveling in legion for 100-110 (rather fun) and vanilla for 1-59 (rather boring).
It would be enjoyable to have a leveling environment for the current 1-60 closer to 100-110 in difficulty, not necessarily in pace.
Regarding the ironman idea, it's not fun to gimp yourself, and you lose the RPG progression aspect of the game, many previous posts covered this idea already.

[Kolvarg]

if you want more of a vanilla challenge at least, you can try some features of the ironman challenge, such as only using white or grey gear. Cant fix xp gains unless you freeze leveling when you hit the cap of the zone and finish questing.

"If you want harder raids just go into LFR with everyone naked, don't need higher difficulties."
"If you want to run for longer, just use the same course and then run in the same place when you reach the end."

Yes, people "can" do that. It's just not nearly as satisfying (for many people) to do it, as opposed to playing an actually proper challenging, well-paced game.

It's not just about the game being harder, but being harder in an interesting way. One that still provides character progression and growth, and that promotes the player makes his character as powerful as he can, instead of the player purposefully making his character artificially weak for the sake of strict harder combat.

RPGs are not just about combat. Removing or reversing the RPG aspects of the game for the sake of harder combat is not a solution.