1. #3881
    Quote Originally Posted by Diwata View Post
    So do we have early indications of weights based on PTR changes? With Revenge hitting like a truck and can reset SS - do we see Crit being more and more valuable? I know Parry scaling still sucks, but - it has to NOT be our worst stat anymore.
    Still is and no. All these changes honestly make haste even more valuable overall.

  2. #3882
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Diwata View Post
    So do we have early indications of weights based on PTR changes? With Revenge hitting like a truck and can reset SS - do we see Crit being more and more valuable? I know Parry scaling still sucks, but - it has to NOT be our worst stat anymore.
    You need buttload of crit to get a small % of parry. Think about this, then realize why it'd never work out unless they go full retard and make it scale at 75% and make BC give you 100% crit (As such, if you had 100% crit you'd get 75% parry).

  3. #3883
    Quote Originally Posted by daed4 View Post
    You need buttload of crit to get a small % of parry. Think about this, then realize why it'd never work out unless they go full retard and make it scale at 75% and make BC give you 100% crit (As such, if you had 100% crit you'd get 75% parry).
    Temporary crit buffs do not confer parry at all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Diwata View Post
    So do we have early indications of weights based on PTR changes? With Revenge hitting like a truck and can reset SS - do we see Crit being more and more valuable? I know Parry scaling still sucks, but - it has to NOT be our worst stat anymore.
    Crit is still a dps stat, they actually removed the survivability portion (rage gain). Revenge vs devastate offers no survivability increase for interchanging the two. Even with the vengeance talent I cant imagine needing procs so often that you would gear for crit unless your goal was purely dps oriented.

  4. #3884
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    I should probably add that on a single target my DPS is around 300k~, only AoE (with best served cold, deveatator and aoe DPS trinkets) I can reach 600-700k reliably (and that is with minimal use of Ignore Pain dumping as much as possible into Revenge).
    Retired in WoD

  5. #3885
    I see they still haven't added any kind of buff indicator when you get a free Revenge proc that you could use with WeakAuras; I'm genuinely hoping that isn't how they intend to go live.

  6. #3886
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    Can't you just track if Revenge is possible to cast?
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  7. #3887
    Quote Originally Posted by DDM View Post
    Can't you just track if Revenge is possible to cast?
    problem is we dont know when the free revenge is gonna expire
    its annoying
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    "How many fargenshlackle does it take to rank 3?"
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    "I can't get this fargenfoliac to gather... is this fargenfurter node bugged" And so on until they mute me.

  8. #3888
    Quote Originally Posted by DDM View Post
    Can't you just track if Revenge is possible to cast?
    That would also get triggered if you have enough rage to cast it but most people are probably looking for a way to track if Revenge is currently free.

    Feel free to try my WeakAura script that I wrote on the PTR that listens to dodges/parries in the combat log and shows a red Revenge icon and plays a short click sound following a dodge/parry for 5s or until you used Revenge after the proc: http://pastebin.com/paWugvmA

    Prior to the current build on PTR Revenge was bugged (https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17614413877) though and you did not always get a free cast following a dodge/parry, so you were mislead by the WeakAura icon sometimes (only when tanking a lot of mobs at same time and getting chain procs basically). However I had no problems since latest update, didn't test it very much though.

  9. #3889
    Quote Originally Posted by Stallion View Post
    That would also get triggered if you have enough rage to cast it but most people are probably looking for a way to track if Revenge is currently free.

    Feel free to try my WeakAura script that I wrote on the PTR that listens to dodges/parries in the combat log and shows a red Revenge icon and plays a short click sound following a dodge/parry for 5s or until you used Revenge after the proc: http://pastebin.com/paWugvmA

    Prior to the current build on PTR Revenge was bugged (https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17614413877) though and you did not always get a free cast following a dodge/parry, so you were mislead by the WeakAura icon sometimes (only when tanking a lot of mobs at same time and getting chain procs basically). However I had no problems since latest update, didn't test it very much though.
    I assume it works like it does now, where there's an internal three second cooldown on the ability to get the free Revenge proc, which prevents you from being able to spam it.

    It's a good approach to the problem, but they really need to expose a buff for this.

  10. #3890
    Quote Originally Posted by Krom2040 View Post
    I assume it works like it does now, where there's an internal three second cooldown on the ability to get the free Revenge proc, which prevents you from being able to spam it.

    It's a good approach to the problem, but they really need to expose a buff for this.
    Yeah, they should really do that, I agree. It's not really a 3s cooldown since I had more frequent back to back procs than that but maybe it has to do with it. Had problems with three back to back procs during the CD of Revenge. More details in the thread I linked but I assume they will change it to a buff before it gets life, so it will probably get fixed anyways.

  11. #3891
    Quote Originally Posted by Krom2040 View Post
    I assume it works like it does now, where there's an internal three second cooldown on the ability to get the free Revenge proc, which prevents you from being able to spam it.

    It's a good approach to the problem, but they really need to expose a buff for this.
    Hopefully there will be a way to track it with Weakauras or something, but yeah, I do agree.

    Been playing around with Booming Voice/Avatar for the past 2 resets. Spec is actually kinda fun, despite the lack of Vengeance (which really should be baseline imo). Can't wait to see how it works with the revenge buff, BV buff, and all the new changes in 7.1.5. Might jump on the PTR later & try it out.

    Trait #36 also achieved. Got bored of putting points into OS weapons.

  12. #3892
    I see they still haven't added any kind of buff indicator when you get a free Revenge proc that you could use with WeakAuras
    doesnt it just light up on your default bars ?

    I always use that for these kinds of things

  13. #3893
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapid View Post
    I just swapped from Fury to Protection and I have a couple of questions.

    1) Currently im using the talent Vengance, am I supposed to use Focused Rage every time I got some rage? or just when it procs (Ultimatum).

    2) How do I efficiently use BC for single target? is it BC > Shield Slam > Devastate > SS > Repeat? or BC > Neltharion's Fury > SS?

    3) Is it worth using Revenge over Devastate when my Shield Slam is on CD? (for single target)
    My knowledge might be a bit rusty.

    1- You want to use FR when it procs, pushing rage into IP's or SB uptime has more worth.

    2- During BC; SS > fish for procs with Dev. Never use NF during BC, most of the time it's not worth it, and if you want to use BC for aoe, revenge has a better outcome most of the times.

    3- Only use Revenge if your SS's remaining cd is below <1s / gcd.

  14. #3894
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapid View Post
    I just swapped from Fury to Protection and I have a couple of questions.

    1) Currently im using the talent Vengance, am I supposed to use Focused Rage every time I got some rage? or just when it procs (Ultimatum).

    2) How do I efficiently use BC for single target? is it BC > Shield Slam > Devastate > SS > Repeat? or BC > Neltharion's Fury > SS?

    3) Is it worth using Revenge over Devastate when my Shield Slam is on CD? (for single target)



    1) Vengeance and Ultimatum are the default talent choices for a raid setting (or probably every setting you want to do your best in). You are supposed to alternate Focused rage and Ignore Pain. This is referred to as "weaving". After you used FR, you want to wait until you have at least 39 rage and then spend it on IP (39 rage is a max IP with the FR vengeance buff up). After that, you want to cast FR again. Continue from there on. The only reasons to cast IP below 39 rage are: If you currently high IP is about to expire (happens rarely in raids) or if you had an Ultimatum procc, in which case you can spend your rage immediatly on IP and then continue with FR as usual. You do the latter because waiting for the 39 rage could mean to waste another Ultimatum procc.

    2) Neltharions Fury is a shit spell for damage and should be used for defense purposes (during its cast you crit block every physical attack). Does not apply to questing content obviously, since you are pretty much unkillable anyway and can use the aoe with BC to burn down clustered mobs. In st situations however, you simply continue with your rotation. The only important thing is, that your SS is up and that you possibly have an active shieldblock up. Shieldblock buffs the damage of SS during its duration. Shieldblock is also off gcd and costs very minor 10 rage. So its BC/SB-->SS-->devestate. Don´t forget about the weaving, your critical SS will trigger Ultimatum and make one FR free. If you successfully fished for a second SS during BC´s duration, it will do even more damage.

    3) Neither in st nor in aoe situation, revenge every is worth using (for surviving) except for one case: If you SS is coming off its cooldown in 1,5 seconds or less. In other words: If your next devestate resets SS but SS is coming off its cd anyway, use revenge instead.
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  15. #3895
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapid View Post
    I just swapped from Fury to Protection and I have a couple of questions.

    1) Currently im using the talent Vengance, am I supposed to use Focused Rage every time I got some rage? or just when it procs (Ultimatum).

    2) How do I efficiently use BC for single target? is it BC > Shield Slam > Devastate > SS > Repeat? or BC > Neltharion's Fury > SS?

    3) Is it worth using Revenge over Devastate when my Shield Slam is on CD? (for single target)
    What people said is generally right, but it depends on your target content as well. If you're doing Mythic+ primarily then you absolutely want to prioritise revenge simply because of the AoE DPS it does on trash, if you're talking pure single target then you'd generally never use revenge, especially if you have the legendary gloves (because you're essentially wasting your +20% on revenge rather than shield slam if you use it on the last GCD, if you don't have the gloves then it's OK to do so).

    Another thing to keep in mind is that your intercept/intervene generates rage, use it on CD unless you need to save it for whatever reason.
    Retired in WoD

  16. #3896
    Deleted
    Am I understanding this right that shield slam crits no longer do anything for your survival in 7.1.5? So Battle Cry has zero defensive value anymore?

    That would seem like a pretty goddamn hamhanded change considering we even have an artifact trait involving critting with shield slam. Not to mention being a huge defensive nerf.

  17. #3897
    BC gives crit which gives parry which gives revenge free procs

    so it has a bit of defensive value

  18. #3898
    Temporary crit buffs such as BC do not increase parry.

  19. #3899
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaexaender View Post
    Temporary crit buffs such as BC do not increase parry.
    PERCENTAGE based buffs, like BC, don't increase parry rating. Crit Rating buffs, such as the Nature's Call Crit buff, DO increase parry rating.

  20. #3900
    Quote Originally Posted by coltraine View Post
    PERCENTAGE based buffs, like BC, don't increase parry rating. Crit Rating buffs, such as the Nature's Call Crit buff, DO increase parry rating.
    My bad, thanks for the correction

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