Ohio passes 'heartbeat' abortion bill

[TirielWoW]

Abortion soft-ban like the bill here + that is just the right thing for healthy child-rearing amirite? /s

It, quite frankly, fills me with rage. I don't agree with abortion, but I think we need good alternatives to it. People seem to believe that women just go, "hey, I'll have an abortion today" and waltz over to the abortion doctor and wham, bam, thank-you-ma'am, and that's all there is to it. But it's a much more serious procedure than that, and I don't know of anyone who has ever made such a decision lightly. More options, not less, are the key to reducing the need for abortion if you, you know, actually care about mother AND child.

[Halyon]

So if the baby isnt "alive" until it exits the womans body then why is it when you murder a pregnant woman its a double homicide? Considering by lefty standards you have ended only one life, not two.

You're drawing the line in the wrong place, and it has most likely been told to you before. When it can survive outside the womb is NOT when it exits the womb. The survival rate is 50% and above at like 24 weeks, while meaningful brain activity is detected is about 21 weeks, and were the argument for personhood means anything. These 2 factors are, at least for me, were the line should be drawn for voluntary abortion, after 20 weeks, it's medical emergency only. Banning it at 6 weeks is -nothing- more than argument from emotion because 'heartbeat must mean life!', when it is in fact alive well before that, just not in any meaningful way that warrants rights, nor will it be until some 20 weeks...

[Elegiac]

I would like to see a situation where someone would say killing a newborn (or just about any child) would be acceptable. While one could say that for some terrible criminals that that right is gone, thats just not something people would say for a young child.

There's plenty of instances of bodily autonomy overcoming a right to life. Self defense, for one.

[Mizix]

Can't you basically get all the way to the six week limit while reasonably unaware that you're even pregnant if you aren't expecting it?

Even if you are expecting it, since it's not always easy to pinpoint conception and the week counting starts from the first day of the last period (precisely because it's not easy to get conception date right). Six weeks pregnant is more like 3-4 actual weeks pregnant and considering that most women ovulate 1-2 weeks after the period and implantation can take up to another week... not many physical signs of pregnancy that early. Also being one or two weeks late on your period can be normal for many women (and periods can be late for a number of reasons, not only pregnancy).

It's a coward law.

[Bombercloner]

Can't you basically get all the way to the six week limit while reasonably unaware that you're even pregnant if you aren't expecting it?

If you're having sex how could you possibly not consider the possibility of being pregnant?

[Varitok]

Not my problem, I'd rather not have my tax money spent on destroying life.

Unless rape or incest.

Then you're gonna complain about your tax money going to people who had kids they can't afford because of an accidental pregnancy. Can't have it both ways.


I'm sorry to the sane people in the US. I feel bad for my friends and relatives in the US too.

[isuridedes]

Or just give the baby up for adoption and lowering the cost to adopt an American child to help get them into homes that want them.

http://www.ccainstitute.org/resources/fact-sheets

Required reading before you're allowed to present "Put the baby up for adoption" as a solution. All you're doing by promoting adoption as an instant-fix is increasing the burden on an already overburdened institution that does not receive nearly the funding necessary to provide the children in long-term foster homes and/or institutions the physical and emotional well-being they need and deserve.

[Crissi]

If you're having sex how could you possibly not consider the possibility of being pregnant?

Because women can have late periods / skipped months even when not pregnant? Also again, it can take 4-6 weeks to even know you are pregnant from pregnancy symptoms.

Unless you wanna force women to take preg tests 4 weeks from having sex every single time they have sex...

[Krazzorx]

When it can survive on its own outside the womb is a decent enough place to start, which those with even a high-school level education should know happens well beyond six fucking weeks.

Personally I'm for ultra-late-term abortions. Kids aren't really all there until a few years after they are born. I make sure my niece and nephew know so they toe the line.

That though is a pretty non-scientific definition.

[TirielWoW]

You're drawing the line in the wrong place, and it has most likely been told to you before. When it can survive outside the womb is NOT when it exits the womb. The survival rate is 50% and above at like 24 weeks, while meaningful brain activity is detected is about 21 weeks, and were the argument for personhood means anything. These 2 factors are, at least for me, were the line should be drawn for voluntary abortion, after 20 weeks, it's medical emergency only. Banning it at 6 weeks is -nothing- more than argument from emotion because 'heartbeat must mean life!', when it is in fact alive well before that, just not in any meaningful way that warrants rights, nor will it be until some 20 weeks...

I believe the youngest baby that has been born and survived was 21 weeks along, just shy of 22 weeks.

[Halyon]

It, quite frankly, fills me with rage. I don't agree with abortion, but I think we need good alternatives to it. People seem to believe that women just go, "hey, I'll have an abortion today" and waltz over to the abortion doctor and wham, bam, thank-you-ma'am, and that's all there is to it. But it's a much more serious procedure than that, and I don't know of anyone who has ever made such a decision lightly. More options, not less, are the key to reducing the need for abortion if you, you know, actually care about mother AND child.

Totally agree. Problem 2 is when the people trying to strongarm these bills have a high tendency to be anti-BC as well...

If I lived in the US, I'd jump through any hoop to get sterilized...but then you have all that crap with the side-effects like ectopic pregnancies and other nasty shit...

[Krazzorx]

There's plenty of instances of bodily autonomy overcoming a right to life. Self defense, for one.

No one's going to kill a newborn in self defense. You're probably looking more at like 2-3 years of age before a 1 in hundreds of million chance that that would need to happen.

[Paula Deen]

As a Democrat I have faith in John Kasich.

[Elegiac]

No one's going to kill a newborn in self defense. You're probably looking more at like 2-3 years of age before a 1 in hundreds of million chance that that would need to happen.

Reading comprehension, please.

[TirielWoW]

Totally agree. Problem 2 is when the people trying to strongarm these bills have a high tendency to be anti-BC as well...

If I lived in the US, I'd jump through any hoop to get sterilized...but then you have all that crap with the side-effects like ectopic pregnancies and other nasty shit...

Ectopic pregnancies are the saddest ones. Really. They're just heartbreaking.

I'm personally getting an IUD put in tomorrow. Those are almost foolproof.

[Edge-]

If you're having sex how could you possibly not consider the possibility of being pregnant?

Because you're on birth control or he's wearing a condom, but one or both fails.

Because you're ignorant of exactly how one gets pregnant and have a host of common false beliefs like if the man ejaculates outside the vagina there's no chance you could get pregnant.

There are a huge number of reasons for why someone who is sexually active may not think that they are pregnant, because most of the time they aren't.

[TirielWoW]

That seems insanely early. We are approaching wizardhood.

It is, but our technology is advancing at such a pace that the "viable" age for a baby is getting younger and younger. With some of the new things coming out, I wouldn't be surprised to see "viability" drop to under 20 weeks in the near future.

[Halyon]

I believe the youngest baby that has been born and survived was 21 weeks along, just shy of 22 weeks.

And by the statistics, that's extremely lucky, since the decline is very fast from those 50%... Yet some people think it means it'll be a-ok for all the other fetuses born prematurely... It requires extreme intensive care to support such a young thing..

[Krazzorx]

You're drawing the line in the wrong place, and it has most likely been told to you before. When it can survive outside the womb is NOT when it exits the womb. The survival rate is 50% and above at like 24 weeks, while meaningful brain activity is detected is about 21 weeks, and were the argument for personhood means anything. These 2 factors are, at least for me, were the line should be drawn for voluntary abortion, after 20 weeks, it's medical emergency only. Banning it at 6 weeks is -nothing- more than argument from emotion because 'heartbeat must mean life!', when it is in fact alive well before that, just not in any meaningful way that warrants rights, nor will it be until some 20 weeks...

And why is that? Why doesn't it deserve rights? A baby can't fight for it's rights either. And you certainly can't kill them even if it would be economically easier.

[Halyon]

Because you're on birth control or he's wearing a condom, but one or both fails.

Because you're ignorant of exactly how one gets pregnant and have a host of common false beliefs like if the man ejaculates outside the vagina there's no chance you could get pregnant.

There are a huge number of reasons for why someone who is sexually active may not think that they are pregnant, because most of the time they aren't.

And after that you have many pregnancies, even intended ones, that will just naturally 'abort' because they just didn't implant...